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Large bounties, pointless.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#81 - 2012-12-09 08:09:40 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.


Lol, do try that.

If the frigate rats don't point you, the mission ship is free to defend himself and all he has to do is point you back. The rats will likely stay on you, even with his use of ewar.



Hot news, mission ships are fitted with scramblers Lol

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#82 - 2012-12-09 08:12:13 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.


More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying.
You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#83 - 2012-12-09 10:17:27 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.


More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying.
You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.


Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#84 - 2012-12-09 10:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
It's hard to make a balanced bounty system, as targets always want to kill themselves if they can make profit...

Why not raising a bit the payout percentage, with a negative ponderation if the ship was insured ?

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Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-12-09 13:01:29 UTC

Quote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time
.

I think a combination of the payout between the value on the ship flown and the size of the bounty pool would help to bring more incentives to hunt the larger bounty players and keep it immune from exploitation.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-12-09 13:15:43 UTC
Jonathan Malcom wrote:
Tao Shaile wrote:
Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.

The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.

All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.

Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?

Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap.


If you're from the US, English is your native language and you should be ashamed of this terrible, rambling, frothing post.

I read It through twice (I hate myself) and still have no idea what you're on about.


Why would you assume everyone in the US has their native language as English? Clearly you have never been to the US.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-12-09 13:17:59 UTC
Tao Shaile wrote:
Asunya wrote:
Put a large bounty on a Freighter or JF-Pilot and with a good chance, his vessel will sit in a station like a beached whale, until his bounty is gone ;-)



You are right :) And until I decide not to extend my eve subscription anymore because I want to play and not sit in station :)

If you will sit in a station and refuse go undock because there is a large bounty on you then you should quit as you are playing the wrong game.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2012-12-09 13:28:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.


More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying.
You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.


Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players.



Thanks for this incredible insight. You have just revolutionised everyone's perspective with this amazing bit of economic analysis.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#89 - 2012-12-09 13:55:14 UTC
The reason for the 20% was not to avoid high-sec killings becoming profitable but to prevent people claiming their own bounty. I know a number of people who, short of a bit of cash, would have an alt or a corpie pod them in an empty clone and split the cash - oft-times billions of ISK.

Although staging the bounty means that there is no grand payout for managing to beat that uber-pirate from the most wanted list it also means that placing a bounty on someone's head no longer means free ISK for them so, while it may appear meaningless at the moment it is at least better than it was before (ie counterproductive).
Michael Alyksander
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-12-09 14:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Alyksander
I kinda wish the whole bounty system worked differently. Bounties on players should put them at various stages of being wanted. A bounty hunter accepts a mission based on difficulty(possibly region of space to be a factor as well) and is then given a person who has a bounty on them. That person then has killrights on that target whereever they are, hi/lo/null is no issue. That person is given the tools to help them find the target, and when the two engage one another if the hunter loses the bounty is voided(the killright he has, the actually bounty itself is put back in the pool for another hunter to attempt), if the hunter wins, he gets the full bounty amount on the target.

This stops the player from killing themselves for a payout, makes a system that is somewhat unpredictable, and actually creates a true bounty hunter profession.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#91 - 2012-12-09 16:48:52 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.



Here what I thought Bounty was going to be: people with neg sec would get bounties and people living in high sec would be able to kill them with concord blessing, no sec hit. Too simple?Roll

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#92 - 2012-12-09 17:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
I haven't read most of the posts on bounties, so someone might have covered this but it seems to me one of the biggest issues with it is that there is no intermediate area between highsec and lowsec where people with bounties can be engaged without a full on concord response but without being so lawless people who don't want to PVP will avoid it entirely.

What they should have done is make it so that 0.5 space is more of a semi-lawless space where you can engage people for bounty hunting purposes but otherwise highsec rules still apply:

Muted concord response to bounty hunting - no megahits, longer response time, etc. you can get away without losing your ship to concord aslong as you don't jump to 0.6+ space while flagged for trying to collect a bounty (normal concord response in 0.6+) - able to dock after 15 minutes, etc.

Trying to collect a bounty will make it so anyone can shoot you.

Some protection from exploiting the system to just instantly put a bounty on someone you see in that space to make them engageable and cool down period after someone has been killed as a bounty too often.

Most people will have to pass through 0.5 space at some point, this might make things a little more complicated for some players but I think it would enhance the game overall aslong as some balance is made between being able to still use 0.5 space aslong as you keep your wits about you but always the chance of being killed for the bounty on you.

EDIT: May not be the best thread for this post but its kind of difficult wading through each one on the subject trying to find the best one.
Doddy
Excidium.
#93 - 2012-12-09 17:11:38 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec.


This isn't true at all tbh, a 1 bil bounty is 200 mil added to the profit from killing the guy in a 1 bil ship. In the case of a freighter for example thats 400 mil less he can carry without becoming a profitable target. In the case of a pimp misison runner he is 200 mil a tastier target in his machariel. The 100k bounty on the other hand doesn't even cover a gankers ammo costs.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-12-09 17:19:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.


More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying.
You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.


Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players.



Thanks for this incredible insight. You have just revolutionised everyone's perspective with this amazing bit of economic analysis.


It's wrong.

Supercap production does NOT consume the majority of trit and pyr in the GAME. It may consume the majority of trit and pyr that is mined overall in null, but not the entire game.

And there are million upon millions of items built in high sec that consume far more trit and pyr combined then does all of the super cap production.

A few thousand ships (possibly, maybe less.) does not consume more low ends then all of the high sec production.

There are only a few minerals you can not get in high sec, and these are used rarely. The bulk of all minerals that is consumed in manufacturing can be got entirely in high sec.

The rarity of higher end ores in high sec is offeset by the more people that are able to mine there. The safer it gets, the fewer miners that get blown up, and the more volume that is mined, the lower prices will go on minerals that are primarilly abundant in null.

CCP's data showed that at the same time that high sec mining increased, high end minerals saw a drop in price; this is not a coincidence. The lower those prices get, the less worthwhile it is to mine for them over scordite in high sec.



Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-12-09 17:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Doddy wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec.


This isn't true at all tbh, a 1 bil bounty is 200 mil added to the profit from killing the guy in a 1 bil ship. In the case of a freighter for example thats 400 mil less he can carry without becoming a profitable target. In the case of a pimp misison runner he is 200 mil a tastier target in his machariel. The 100k bounty on the other hand doesn't even cover a gankers ammo costs.


Best case scenarios are never representative of overal impact.

Edit: You can make a profit blowing up frieghters without the bounty.
It's not much different than saying the bounties will encourage more peopel to shoot each other in low and null. They're already shooting each other, the bounty is a bonus, not the reason.

It may help tip the scale in some frieghter ganks, but that's still a best case scenario and won't represent the bounty system overal.

A guy with a 15b bounty in a merlin is no more worth shooting than the guy with a 50m bounty in a merlin. The 15b bounty guy should, and not because you can shoot him for longer, in most cases you're only going to get to do it once.

The only people who are going to hunt down were that guys clone ends up either have a personal vendetta against the guy -and probably donsn't care about the bounty anyways-, or someone that really just wants to antagonize the guy.

And then it relies upon the guy to be dumb enough to keep undocking.
Johnny Jinks
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2012-12-09 19:40:26 UTC



Should have made the payout a percentage of the actual bounty pool.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-12-09 19:51:08 UTC
Johnny Jinks wrote:



Should have made the payout a percentage of the actual bounty pool.

Would be easy to turn a profit.

Get blown up in a shuttle untill the pool is empty.

The way they do the payout makes sense, I personally think it's the best solution. It just doesn't encourage people to shoot people with larger bounties.

I don't see a couple of percent over 20 for people having higher bounties as being impossible to balance.

The entire thing could even be on a curve, so that the higher the number one guy goes, the higher a bounty needs to be to modify payout percentage.

Ginger Barbarella
#98 - 2012-12-10 00:23:30 UTC
Tao Shaile wrote:
Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.

The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.

All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.

Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?

Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap.


Either stop posting or use a better translator. Thanks.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-12-10 00:32:33 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.

I do agree.

But at some point, whether it be several billion or several hundred million or few billion, that number kind of loses it's merits.

I expect to see guys with bounties high enough to be considered permenant, I don't expect those guys to be the dudes flying a titan.
I am on-board with your original post, but I disagree that the titan pilot wouldn't want to log in w/a big price on his head. In fact, the titan pilot is exactly the guy or gal who could be the most likely to be in-space with a big bounty. Most titan pilots I know work very hard to keep both their ship and capsule intact and alive. If their ship is lost and capsule bubbled, what happens next is inevitable with or without bounty.


+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#100 - 2012-12-10 03:24:56 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


Rather than making blanket statements about high sec dwellers and assuming your conclusion is the only correct one, try remembering something else. If payouts increased dependant on the size of the bounty pool, the system would be hilariously open to abuse by large alliances with a penchant for bending/abusing the rules, or those with an excess of real life cash to spend.

Do you want EVE to be pay to win?

Personally I'd rather people had to make some kind of effort at least some of the time.

But it's a "blanket" issue.

It works how it works so that you can't profit from it in high sec. It's not a conspiracy.

In fact, I'm confident enough to say that I don't think a Dev would tell me I'm wrong. I believe whole heartedly that they would indeed say that it's designed around the 20% payout because it prevents bounties in high sec from being used to make ganking profitable. If you made it profitable, it would happen more, and they've been pretty clear that they fully intended for the new bounty system to NOT cause more ganking.

Now call me nutty, but all that is directly related to only one area of the game, high sec.

I'm saying, I disagree with that. It should be able to be used to make a profit, explicitly so that it can encourage a gank.

The mining buff impacted the game, and not a little bit.
CCP varified it.
The bounty system could have been the tool to counter AFK and bot mining in high sec.


Your a weenie, people still gank exhumers and barges, the HP/EHP is not so great except a skiff or procurer, it doesn't take much to kill a hulk or covetor, retriever as well, a mack take a little more but it can be done and the possible salvage from exhumer can make it profitable, have you flown a procure? Yeah great tank but ore hold is not fit for an AFK'er now retriever or a mack, now your talking, but alias that tank is not so tough, if CCP spots bots shouldn't they do something? But AFK come off it already, the retriever can be killed by farting on it. Besides you know life happens so some times AFK is something that is just that, there is no pause button here in eve.