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Titan's Doomsday "Root": Bent towards titan blobbing. Here's how to fix it.
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Shingorash
Stellar Defense Services
#21 - 2011-10-10 11:43:49 UTC
Prevent titans using a cloak would be better so they cant shoot their load, **** off to a safe and cloak up without having to worry about anything.

Seriously how do you cloak something that big...

Standard capital ships are about the same size as a Machariel (which is dumb in itself), all caps in my opinion shouldnt be able to cloak at all.
Agent Known
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-11 23:53:22 UTC
I think the current problem is that titans (and supercaps in general) were balanced around having a small number of them. Remember a few years ago when killing baby titans made headlines on the forums and a titan killmail was something to boast about? Now that there are literally hundreds of titans able to be fielded at any given time, this balance was lost.

The point of titans being so powerful was because of the massive commitment of resources required to build one. Nowadays a major alliance can "already replaced" their titans and supercaps whenever they (rarely) die.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#23 - 2011-10-11 23:56:35 UTC
Agent Known wrote:
I think the current problem is that titans (and supercaps in general) were balanced around having a small number of them. Remember a few years ago when killing baby titans made headlines on the forums and a titan killmail was something to boast about? Now that there are literally hundreds of titans able to be fielded at any given time, this balance was lost.

The point of titans being so powerful was because of the massive commitment of resources required to build one. Nowadays a major alliance can "already replaced" their titans and supercaps whenever they (rarely) die.


Well, as the game grows, alliances of thousands of people can pretty much always pool resources to build something huge and expensive very quickly and en masse. What I'd be hoping to achieve with a change like this is makes Titans "expensive" in the sense that they are likely to be lost in a major engagement, whereas right now it's actually news if a measly 6 titans go down in a single fight.

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Ariel Dawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-10-15 13:29:48 UTC
Best solution would be to add alternative ships that can knock down titans and would be sub-capital to avoid the DD, avoiding nerfs which tend to make people angry and adding more content which people love.

Example; T2/3 Battlecruisers that have a large tank capability and fit a specialized energy borer weapon that starts out at low damage but ramps up over time to the point where it's doing serious damage to a titan (low tracking so it's regulated to anti-cap). Or a focus module that strips resistances or shuts down capital tank modules, etc.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#25 - 2011-10-15 17:52:33 UTC
The aggro log-off changes will already accomplish much of what you're trying to do - that is ensuring that Titans are at risk when they are deployed. All this is going to do is be another annoying game mechanic when your average fleet peon has to sit around babysitting the titans for 25 minutes or so after the hostile fleet as already run.

If there is a fleet that can kill the Titans on grid, they will have tackle, and this mechanic is not needed. The sole point of the 30 seconds is to prevent drive-by-dding, and it does that. Anything more is just another arbitrary timesink for large capital fleets.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#26 - 2011-10-15 22:31:19 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
The aggro log-off changes will already accomplish much of what you're trying to do - that is ensuring that Titans are at risk when they are deployed. All this is going to do is be another annoying game mechanic when your average fleet peon has to sit around babysitting the titans for 25 minutes or so after the hostile fleet as already run.

True, the logoff changes will help with this a lot, and will hopefully change supercapital warfare forever. However...


Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
If there is a fleet that can kill the Titans on grid, they will have tackle, and this mechanic is not needed. The sole point of the 30 seconds is to prevent drive-by-dding, and it does that. Anything more is just another arbitrary timesink for large capital fleets.

The 30 second timer is hardly very long. As for the "arbitrary timesink," it's easy to just not frickin' DD so much. Titans do great DPS as is; if you end up waiting around, maybe you shouldn't have DD'd so much.

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Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-10-16 03:40:44 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Headerman wrote:
It's a pretty useless idea, since titans are unable to jump for 10 minutes anyway. After 10 minutes they all jump out, gank done.

=_=

Do I need to specify explicitly that they obviously cannot jump either?

Rooted means rooted, mate.


Sorry - a bit obtuse here so perhaps you can elaborate based upon what I'm reading.

Titans currently are rooted 30 seconds when using their doomsday weapon. They then cannot cyno out for 10 minutes.

Your proposed solution to titans is to have them rooted for more extensive periods in the hopes people will bring other ships in to take out a batch of titans.

Titans are slow to align, slow to get up to warp so they aren't very good at "bouncing between safes/tacticals" in a system.

As such - how does blocking them help and do you really see a threat escalation as "OK, keep using the DD!!!"?

Also, how would this stack up with disconnects and emergency warp? It's not in combat, it hasn't been shot at yet it's rooted due to OTHERS being in combat near by.

The current 30 sec timer will expire before that emergency warp could kick in.

I don't see the usefulness but I'm basing my understanding on turning off mods to get the hell out of a nasty situation while leaving those shooting at me unable to follow through gates - in this scenario, there is little difference between a gate and a cyno when the last one to shoot is stuck for 10 minutes and cannot "follow" nor leave.

Again, please do elaborate a bit more. I am interested but I don't see how this mechanic solves anything - especially with "cap balancing" changes that haven't seen live fire still in testing. Just one more potential broken/borked issue is all I'm seeing and I'd like to understand your logic a bit more.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#28 - 2011-10-16 03:52:01 UTC
Mocam wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Headerman wrote:
It's a pretty useless idea, since titans are unable to jump for 10 minutes anyway. After 10 minutes they all jump out, gank done.

=_=

Do I need to specify explicitly that they obviously cannot jump either?

Rooted means rooted, mate.


Sorry - a bit obtuse here so perhaps you can elaborate based upon what I'm reading.

Titans currently are rooted 30 seconds when using their doomsday weapon. They then cannot cyno out for 10 minutes.

Your proposed solution to titans is to have them rooted for more extensive periods in the hopes people will bring other ships in to take out a batch of titans.

Titans are slow to align, slow to get up to warp so they aren't very good at "bouncing between safes/tacticals" in a system.

As such - how does blocking them help and do you really see a threat escalation as "OK, keep using the DD!!!"?

Also, how would this stack up with disconnects and emergency warp? It's not in combat, it hasn't been shot at yet it's rooted due to OTHERS being in combat near by.

The current 30 sec timer will expire before that emergency warp could kick in.

I don't see the usefulness but I'm basing my understanding on turning off mods to get the hell out of a nasty situation while leaving those shooting at me unable to follow through gates - in this scenario, there is little difference between a gate and a cyno when the last one to shoot is stuck for 10 minutes and cannot "follow" nor leave.

Again, please do elaborate a bit more. I am interested but I don't see how this mechanic solves anything - especially with "cap balancing" changes that haven't seen live fire still in testing. Just one more potential broken/borked issue is all I'm seeing and I'd like to understand your logic a bit more.

Typically once a supercapital leaves the main field of combat, even if only by warping out, there is very little the opposition can do to catch it when they are still in the fray. This is an idea that would force some additional commitment on the part of titan pilots when they warp in to join a large fight.

As for your question about emergency warp, it's not really an issue; as of the new changes, ships will no longer disappear because of OTHERS nearby... shooting them. This change would merely make DDs affect both the target and all other titans on the grid. As the game currently works, a ship will attempt to e-warp only once, right when you disconnect -- and if you are in warp, right after it lands out of the current warp. If that warp is interrupted, it does not warp and it does not attempt again. (If you land in a bubble at the end of a warp where you disconnect, you can end up sitting there logged off on the bubble for up to 15 minutes.)

So that much doesn't really change, and it doesn't particularly complicate the situation.

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Kiyl
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#29 - 2011-10-16 17:31:22 UTC
Sounds pretty good, but while reading this I had the thought that an enemy fleet could just DD over and over and keep the opposing force sitting there. Dunno if this was intended...
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#30 - 2011-10-17 00:00:12 UTC
Kiyl wrote:
Sounds pretty good, but while reading this I had the thought that an enemy fleet could just DD over and over and keep the opposing force sitting there. Dunno if this was intended...

Yeah, and hopefully they will eventually run out of things to DD (killing enemy titans) and be able to leave.

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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-10-20 03:16:53 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Headerman wrote:
It's not going to happen. At all.

If this DID somehow manage to make it through, then how long would it be before Dreads or carriers get calls to be nerfed?

You sound a lot like someone who has a titan.

A LOT.


And you sound like you don't have one, thus don't understand how this would basically either change nothing to the current situation, or be exploited negatively.

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