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Tech 1 logistics are the straw that broke the Tech Camel's back
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Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-07 06:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
I'll keep this post as simple as possible. Tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing Tech 2 logistics in nullsec wars.

Why? Because they are cheaper!

Prove it!

Scimitar

Cost: 134 million isk (Standard Scimitar fit)

Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second

Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk

Scythe

Cost: 25.5 million isk (fitted similar to the previous fit with an added Capacitor Power Relay II and Medium Liquid Cooled Electronics I)

Shield repair amount: 187.2 per second

Cost of rep per second: 136,218 isk

You can have 5 fully fitted Scythe's for the cost of 1 Scimitar!

So, this means alliances and corporations can afford more logistic ships than they could before. Also, due to the lower skill requirements you have a greater availability of pilots.

Now, how does this relate to Technetium?

Easy, due to the new cheaper tech 1 logistic cruisers there is no need to purchase tech 2 logistics in large scale conflicts.

Tech 2 logistics use Technetium in their construction.

Where do the most ships typically die in the game during major wars? Nullsec of course!

What is typically the most used tech 2 ship during wartime? Logistics!

And now that the tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing the tech 2 logistics there will be a fairly significant drop in the demand of Technetium/Platinum Technite!

As a result the price of Technetium/Platinum Technite will drop significantly!

Alchemy has already caused a severe drop in the price of Platinum Technite (and therefore Technetium) due to it over supplying the market. Now we see the demand for Platinum Technite will drop significantly causing an even more severe drop in it's price.

There may be the potential that the drop in demand for Platinum Technite will cause the price to drop even without alchemy!

Ring mining hasn't arrived yet and now we see another nerf to Tech moons!

The death of Technetium moons as a major passive income source may come sooner than expected! Twisted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2 - 2012-12-07 06:10:27 UTC
Ok, let's roll ~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2012-12-07 06:12:41 UTC
What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Desya Dakken
METACORTEX LLC
#4 - 2012-12-07 06:14:38 UTC
What you don't understand is, Tech is needed for nearly every single T2 item in the game, so people switching to T1 Logistics with T2 modules, still fuels the cartel.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#5 - 2012-12-07 06:15:15 UTC
So, the Sycthe will end our 0.0 dreams?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-12-07 06:21:56 UTC
Alua Oresson wrote:
What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving.


Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships.

However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull.

If a subcap fleet needs logistics support (what fleet doesn't?) then they will be using tech 1 logistic cruisers in larger fleets.

Tech 2 logistic ships will be more useful for small scale roams.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-07 06:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
T1 logis won't do anything against the null circle jerk fest.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-07 06:28:12 UTC
Desya Dakken wrote:
What you don't understand is, Tech is needed for nearly every single T2 item in the game, so people switching to T1 Logistics with T2 modules, still fuels the cartel.


Oh I understand that perfectly. However, alchemy has already severely hindered the profitability of Tech moons. The change over to tech 1 logistic cruisers will further hinder tech moon profitability.

Tech 2 logistics are one of the most heavily used tech 2 ships in the came if not the most.

I'm not saying that Tech moon profitability will completely disappear, but it may be severely hindered to the point of no longer being as big a passive income source as it is now.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#9 - 2012-12-07 06:31:22 UTC
They should have given tech moons sleeper AI.


Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-12-07 06:32:05 UTC
When did isk become such a serous consideration in null?


I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-07 06:33:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So, the Sycthe will end our 0.0 dreams?


What the 0.0 dreams are I don't know, so I can't really speak to that. However, the profitability of Tech moons will once again be severely reduced.

The price could fall to the production cost of alchemy or perhaps even further down to where even alchemy is no longer profitable. Alchemy has an effect on me personally, so this change over to tech 1 logistics could hinder my profits as well as those of nullsec residents.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-07 06:36:52 UTC
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
When did isk become such a serous consideration in null?




It always was and always will be. Nullsec is used to having passive income to fight their wars with. However, that will eventually come to an end and the change over to tech 1 logistics will make this time come sooner.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#13 - 2012-12-07 06:37:24 UTC
Elzon1 wrote:
Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships.

However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull.

Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ...

blobber.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#14 - 2012-12-07 06:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Elzon1 wrote:

Scimitar

Cost: 134 million isk (unfit)

Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second

Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk


I'm affraid, you're wrong sir, the shield repair amount for an unfit Scimitar is zero. So technically the T1 variation is in your example better an infinite number of times more.

Nerf T1 !!! :D


Edit :

More seriously,
You can apply this kind of reasonning for every ship in the game. Let's calculate the isk / dps ratio for T1 and T2 ships... it's the same thing !

The point is that using T2 can increase your performances when you don't have an unlimited number of pilots. Your example seems to think that null sec fights are limited by money, but they are more limited by the number of players available.

To increase the efficiency of those pilots, you need them to fly T2s.

Also, your calculations are not considering the surviviability of the ship, as underligned before. Yes T1 is five times cheaper, but I bet that I will die even faster than that compared to a T2 :)

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Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-07 06:38:13 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Elzon1 wrote:

Scimitar

Cost: 134 million isk (unfit)

Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second

Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk


I'm affraid, you're wrong sir, the shield repair amount for an unfit Scimitar is zero.


Indeed, I shall correct that Lol
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#16 - 2012-12-07 06:41:24 UTC
Elzon1 wrote:
Alua Oresson wrote:
What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving.


Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships.

However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull.

If a subcap fleet needs logistics support (what fleet doesn't?) then they will be using tech 1 logistic cruisers in larger fleets.

Tech 2 logistic ships will be more useful for small scale roams.


You avoided the question, which means that you know the answer. If the logistics don't last long enough for reps to hit, then they aren't useful.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-12-07 06:41:39 UTC
the big lie at its finest

keep up the good work , seems legit

tech is in dire need of buffing after the recent changes to the game, the sky really is falling.

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-07 06:44:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Elzon1 wrote:
Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships.

However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull.

Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ...

blobber.


It's a very effective tactic as you already know very well.

We won't see more tactical fleets until there are more remote A.O.E modules are added to the game.
Elzon1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-12-07 06:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Elzon1
Bobo Cindekela wrote:
the big lie at its finest

keep up the good work , seems legit

tech is in dire need of buffing after the recent changes to the game, the sky really is falling.


No need for a buff seeing as tech moons were never intended to the major passive income source they currently are.

Once ring mining comes about the profitability of all moons will be significantly reduced.

If EVE is to grow it's going to need a greater supply of Technetium and other moon minerals than is currently available.

More systems could be added, but that wouldn't increase the density of pilots per system. There are already empty systems all over the place.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2012-12-07 06:53:25 UTC
No they won't.

Why?

Because they're not nearly as good at the job. Less repping power + lower survivability (= even less repping power over time) = loss. They might make a difference among the mission crowd, where ship loss is a silly rare occurrence anyway, but for fleet work, they are only training wheels on the way to T2.
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