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CCP, you are taking away the meaning of the (Wanted) sign!

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Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-12-07 15:57:30 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
It makes the "has bounty" colortag on the overview useless.

We need a way to filter based on the bounty amount so that only players with larger then "X" bounty will show up with the tag on our overview and in local. Personally, I'd set the default at 10M ISK.

Is that 10m in general to suicide gank them?

10m on someone with a killright in high sec?

10m if they're in low sec?

What can I spend 10m on and feel comfortable knowin you're out there?

Vixen Soul
Perkone
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-12-07 15:59:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
It makes the "has bounty" colortag on the overview useless.

We need a way to filter based on the bounty amount so that only players with larger then "X" bounty will show up with the tag on our overview and in local. Personally, I'd set the default at 10M ISK.

Is that 10m in general to suicide gank them?

10m on someone with a killright in high sec?

10m if they're in low sec?

What can I spend 10m on and feel comfortable knowin you're out there?



10m is nothing to most players. If you get 20% of a bounty, that means you need 20m minimum bounty to get full reward on say a guardian or Curse kill.

I'd say don't show wanted until you've done enough damage to make people want you dead for real, and that's around 100m isk minimum.

SoulCreative
Gotch Urarse
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#63 - 2012-12-07 16:07:22 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:

Having a "Wanted" sign next to our name puts me in the "evil" category in my opinion. This is because in every game, movie, and real life historical event I've ever heard of , it was criminals who were "Wanted".


See my prior, it does not put you in the 'evil' category. Wanted means you have a bounty, which implies someone put a reward on you. Wanted is not equatable to evil. It's a false perception.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#64 - 2012-12-07 16:10:49 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Here is the problem.

This game is a sandbox. We create our own realities about our avatars and who WE are as players in this game.

Some of us are business minded miners and manufacturers. Some of us are evil villains. Some of us are noble soldiers fighting for our factions cause.

The point is that we all get to choose who we are and make decisions that reflect those choices. One of those decisions is to decide that we are good, not evil.

Having a "Wanted" sign next to our name puts me in the "evil" category in my opinion. This is because in every game, movie, and real life historical event I've ever heard of , it was criminals who were "Wanted".

Yes, it's a sandbox, but this sandbox is allowing us the freedom to choose the personality of our character, and that means choosing to refrain from war (not that I do that), and to be on the side of "good". Now that choice has been removed.

I know it sounds corny and stupid, but I always kinda viewed my character as a good person. I would get someone to hull and then let them go, or fly around in my Logi. I don't want to view the fantasy version of myself as a wanted criminal. That might make me a carebear, but I embrace it, and I accept it, and that is my right to choose in a sandbox game. Or it was my right, but now I'm a wanted criminal as soon as some nobody with 100k gets bored.


Part of what makes EVE what it is, is that people can do things to you, even if you wouldn't necessarily want them to do that. This has been the case since EVE started, and will (hopefully) be the case until EVE eventually shuts down its servers. Your character might be a good person, and I fully support it, but you are not a wanted criminal now that you have a bounty.

It just means that someone with less scruples has decided you are in the way, and have put a price on your head. You now get to decide how you react, what you do, whether you retaliate..

In short, you get to interact with people. This is a good thing.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#65 - 2012-12-07 16:10:54 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Here is the problem.

This game is a sandbox. We create our own realities about our avatars and who WE are as players in this game.

Some of us are business minded miners and manufacturers. Some of us are evil villains. Some of us are noble soldiers fighting for our factions cause.

The point is that we all get to choose who we are and make decisions that reflect those choices. One of those decisions is to decide that we are good, not evil.

Having a "Wanted" sign next to our name puts me in the "evil" category in my opinion. This is because in every game, movie, and real life historical event I've ever heard of , it was criminals who were "Wanted".

Yes, it's a sandbox, but this sandbox is allowing us the freedom to choose the personality of our character, and that means choosing to refrain from war (not that I do that), and to be on the side of "good". Now that choice has been removed.

I know it sounds corny and stupid, but I always kinda viewed my character as a good person. I would get someone to hull and then let them go, or fly around in my Logi. I don't want to view the fantasy version of myself as a wanted criminal. That might make me a carebear, but I embrace it, and I accept it, and that is my right to choose in a sandbox game. Or it was my right, but now I'm a wanted criminal as soon as some nobody with 100k gets bored.


The problem here is you have a fundamental misconception of what the wanted sign means in this game. All it means is that someone somewhere has said "i will pay x amount of isk for this person to die", doesnt matter why the bounty was placed, who the person is or wether they view themselves as a good guy.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-12-07 16:12:00 UTC
OP has a point. Bounties are turning into a joke. But it is fun for getting paid while blowing someone up so whatever

Hopefully once the newness wears off, it will get better
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#67 - 2012-12-07 16:12:09 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:


10m is nothing to most players. If you get 20% of a bounty, that means you need 20m minimum bounty to get full reward on say a guardian or Curse kill.

I'd say don't show wanted until you've done enough damage to make people want you dead for real, and that's around 100m isk minimum.


Why do you get to decide at what point I price "I want you dead for real"?

Maybe I just want someone to kill a single frigate of yours?
Vixen Soul
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-12-07 16:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vixen Soul
Right.

IF it meant (I will pay X amount for this person to die), then I would understand the "Wanted" sign.

But in reality, all these 100k and 1m and even 10m bounties mean is (haha, you now have a wanted sign). I have set bounties on players I want to die, and it wasn't a joke bounty of 10m.

That's what I'm saying. If you make bounties 100m minimum for wanted sign, than it means someone WANTS you to die and that you are truely wanted. Not this spam we see now which is just immature trolls thinking they are new and creative by putting a 100k bounty on their friends / everyone they run into.

Right now, it's turned into a game of TAG where we try to tag everyone who doesn't have a bounty on themselves. It's not about paying form someone to die. Let's make this a system where you have to pay a serious valuable amount that bounty hunters will truly pursue.

Getting a bounty on you should mean "Wow, I should be careful who I run into". Not, "Oh, look, now I'm like everyone else".

SoulCreative
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#69 - 2012-12-07 16:22:05 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Right.

IF it meant (I will pay X amount for this person to die), then I would understand the "Wanted" sign.

But in reality, all these 100k and 1m and even 10m bounties mean is (haha, you now have a wanted sign). I have set bounties on players I want to die, and it wasn't a joke bounty of 10m.

That's what I'm saying. If you make bounties 100m minimum for wanted sign, than it means someone WANTS you to die and that you are truely wanted. Not this spam we see now which is just immature trolls thinking they are new and creative by putting a 100k bounty on their friends / everyone they run into.

Right now, it's turned into a game of TAG where we try to tag everyone who doesn't have a bounty on themselves. It's not about paying form someone to die. Let's make this a system where you have to pay a serious valuable amount that bounty hunters will truly pursue.

Getting a bounty on you should mean "Wow, I should be careful who I run into". Not, "Oh, look, now I'm like everyone else".



So what?

They still have a reason for placing the bounty, even if the reason is 'Im a troll who likes putting small bounties on people'. Considering its been less than a week since the sytem was introduced i think its a bit premature to be judging it, especially when you know most of the 100k bounty crowd havent got bored yet.

People have wasted RL money on far far stupider things believe me.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#70 - 2012-12-07 16:24:41 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Right.

IF it meant (I will pay X amount for this person to die), then I would understand the "Wanted" sign.

But in reality, all these 100k and 1m and even 10m bounties mean is (haha, you now have a wanted sign). I have set bounties on players I want to die, and it wasn't a joke bounty of 10m.

That's what I'm saying. If you make bounties 100m minimum for wanted sign, than it means someone WANTS you to die and that you are truely wanted. Not this spam we see now which is just immature trolls thinking they are new and creative by putting a 100k bounty on their friends / everyone they run into.

Right now, it's turned into a game of TAG where we try to tag everyone who doesn't have a bounty on themselves. It's not about paying form someone to die. Let's make this a system where you have to pay a serious valuable amount that bounty hunters will truly pursue.

Getting a bounty on you should mean "Wow, I should be careful who I run into". Not, "Oh, look, now I'm like everyone else".


Thanks for the bounty. Hopefully it will help me get more people to shoot at me. (I live in null sec)

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#71 - 2012-12-07 16:25:11 UTC
If someone doesn't have a [Wanted] sign, they should be able to buy one in the NEx.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#72 - 2012-12-07 16:26:23 UTC
Yup. Punish those who post evil contrary opinions on the forums. That's worthy of a hangin' doncha know ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-12-07 16:26:44 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vixen Soul wrote:


10m is nothing to most players. If you get 20% of a bounty, that means you need 20m minimum bounty to get full reward on say a guardian or Curse kill.

I'd say don't show wanted until you've done enough damage to make people want you dead for real, and that's around 100m isk minimum.


Why do you get to decide at what point I price "I want you dead for real"?

Maybe I just want someone to kill a single frigate of yours?

This response honestly represents the best grasp of basic economics I have seen in a long time.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#74 - 2012-12-07 16:29:12 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Yup. Punish those who post evil contrary opinions on the forums. That's worthy of a hangin' doncha know ?


Annoying me is a worthwhile reason for me to throw some reward money at people who manage to beat you up.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#75 - 2012-12-07 16:29:56 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Vixen Soul wrote:


10m is nothing to most players. If you get 20% of a bounty, that means you need 20m minimum bounty to get full reward on say a guardian or Curse kill.

I'd say don't show wanted until you've done enough damage to make people want you dead for real, and that's around 100m isk minimum.


Why do you get to decide at what point I price "I want you dead for real"?

Maybe I just want someone to kill a single frigate of yours?

This response honestly represents the best grasp of basic economics I have seen in a long time.


Why thank you!
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#76 - 2012-12-07 16:30:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Ok...

1. Stop messying with my new toy "trendy bounties" - they are fine and affordable and fun... haters.
2. 100K bounties with NEVER get dull.
3. Gankers can now insteat of buying Cats and doing that they can now bounty and drive care-bears insane with having a "wanted" on them, this alone should drive some to instutionalized status.
4. I need to 100K bounty everyone in this thread in alphabetical order, as the quest for all of EVE to be bountied by "Aurelius Valentius: The Infinitly Prolonged.
5. CCP doesn't need to change a thing, and in fact they missed a opporunity for "Customized" bounty "WANTED" signs in the NEX store, but oh well, never too late.
6. Help Channel bounties are excellent, I should have thought of that.
7. Already though of everyone in local, and corp 100K bounties, I might suggest Trade Hub bounties as a good means of getting that last 5% of EVE population, and then the random search A-Z character name search, though this might be a bit of work, nothing is to much to get everyone to be wanted.
8. Bounty pools should be the norm, the more bounties the better, being we have blow up billions of little planet-side folks family members on our exploded ships, we def have torked off someone, so all capsuleers should be wanted by default.... maybe we could have a payment system to not be wanted...

Ok, and for my suggestions on bounties:
1. There prob should be a cancel button, you just cancel it and lose the ISK but gain the ability to gather the tears and sorrow stories and then be merciful, after that 1v1 convo and the personal donation of ISK that make your heart fonder towards that person you bountied.
2. There should be a way to set auto-bounty in response to a bounty, as reading all the bounties placed does get a bit much, you could have auto-bounty set to some amount, and when an incoming bounty happens it places a retributive bounty.
3. We should def have some randomized "WANTED" styles, this would help with the complaints of everyone has one, I suggest about 10 version of the standard bounty sign, and then NEX verisons for the people that want a specific bounty sign, options like spray painted tags, or a rolled out paper version, or a retro old west face type, etc.
4. People should be allowed to re-customize on a bounty to fit the bounty wanted correctly with the photo to look their best, alot of people look silly with "WANTED" over their mouth and chin... and PLAN ahead people when making your toon... alternatively, CCP could move the wanted sign below the pic, or something like that, maybe a special wanted box.

Oh and final note, I love that the little skull and black are on the ship, but I think we need "WANTED" on the ship pic also, if this is possible it would really be nice, and maybe a flashing "WANTED" in the reticle much like the current "LOCKED" flashing.

o/

Remember, FLY BOUNTIED!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#77 - 2012-12-07 16:41:26 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I would give "wanted" sign only to people who have done a crime that ended in killrights for the victim.


Again: Why?

In the real world bad guys do place bounties on good guys. Prior to Retribution this was also being done in Eve, but it required a person to manually do the verification and payouts. Now the game does that task for them.

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Vixen Soul
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-12-07 16:46:15 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I would give "wanted" sign only to people who have done a crime that ended in killrights for the victim.


Again: Why?

In the real world bad guys do place bounties on good guys. Prior to Retribution this was also being done in Eve, but it required a person to manually do the verification and payouts. Now the game does that task for them.


Right, but bad guys didn't place bounties on every good person in the world.

It's unrealistic. Eve is a sandbox, but it's realistic, and it's immersive. This takes away from the realism.

SoulCreative
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#79 - 2012-12-07 16:47:16 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I would give "wanted" sign only to people who have done a crime that ended in killrights for the victim.


Again: Why?

In the real world bad guys do place bounties on good guys. Prior to Retribution this was also being done in Eve, but it required a person to manually do the verification and payouts. Now the game does that task for them.


I'm aware of that. That wasn't what was being asked.

I was asking why the wanted sign should only apply to people who have earned killrights from the placer.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#80 - 2012-12-07 16:48:59 UTC
Vixen Soul wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I would give "wanted" sign only to people who have done a crime that ended in killrights for the victim.


Again: Why?

In the real world bad guys do place bounties on good guys. Prior to Retribution this was also being done in Eve, but it required a person to manually do the verification and payouts. Now the game does that task for them.


Right, but bad guys didn't place bounties on every good person in the world.

It's unrealistic. Eve is a sandbox, but it's realistic, and it's immersive. This takes away from the realism.


They don't, because they have no reason to. "For laughs" has never been an acceptable reason in the real world, but it is in EVE, and always has been.