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Bounty system broke?
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Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-12-07 10:12:20 UTC
Matrim of Manetheren wrote:
Make the payoff 50% or 75% instead of 20%. I'm guessing that it's 20% because a higher payoff will have bigger potential for abuse, but I'm sure you could find a way to deal with it.
This should be easy enough, all of the necessary mechanics are in place, just a few numbers need to be tweaked.


If that were the case, then:
* Buy a T1 Battleship, fit no mods, get full insurance, kill self with alt.
Insurance payout + 50-75% bounty payout - ship cost - insurance cost > 0

* Profit from people placing a bounty on you

* Just as broken as the old system
Sigras
Conglomo
#22 - 2012-12-07 11:06:35 UTC
^^ This

They wanted to put the bounty system firmly outside of the reach of exploitation.

That being said, I think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. Nobody says that the fight has to be fair. I realize that if you fleet with people, the profit is split more ways, but so is the risk.

I know of a few groups planning on going around in a fleet of 6-7 looking for people with kill rights against them and bounties on them to make a quick easy and fun buck

If you do it intelligently, you can basically guarantee yourself an easy kill; will it make you rich quick? no, but will it fund your PvP through more PvP? possibly . . . Also dont forget you keep the loot drop and salvage too.
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
#23 - 2012-12-07 11:57:49 UTC
Indeed, current EVE mechanics make it totally impossible
to make bounty payoff higher then something like 20%,
besides lower payout on bounty is not that bad, it keeps
threat around for longer; of course whole concept is a bit dubious
- in low sec and 0.0 people will likely try to kill you the moment
they see you unless you are blue (so bounty really does nothing
here) and in high sec bounty doesn't grant killrights, so it is
not dangerous unless you fly stuff too expensive for your
own good (and it will get you ganked anyway, bounty or not)
As for cause and consequence of nonanonymous bounty, I
guess idea was decent, but in reality people will just use
throwaway alt, so question is why not just make it anonymous
Sigras
Conglomo
#24 - 2012-12-07 12:43:16 UTC
dont look at the bounty as solely motive to kill the person, but as an added bonus. If you see a person who is flying a billion isk in modules on his ship, that might not be worth enough to suicide gank, but if you know that you'll get an additional 200+ million guaranteed for doing it, that might push it into the profitable range

also, supplemental income for people in low sec is never a bad thing; it may not be the sole motive to attack that person, but it will be a nice payout for them.
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#25 - 2012-12-07 14:01:57 UTC
Organa Talvanen wrote:
Why would a wealthy industrialist pilot/corp place a bounty on the ganker when that will just put a bulls-eye and likely a reciprocal bounty on themselves?!!?


Why would a wealthy industrialist give 2 hoots if the ganker places a reciprocal bounty on them? A bounty does not give kill rights you know.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#26 - 2012-12-07 14:07:02 UTC
Count Lucius Mollari wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Count Lucius Mollari wrote:
BTW Organa, I can tell you play WoW or something too by your use of the term "Alt".
Mag's, by "Alt" she means one of your other characters/pilots on the same account...


Alt has nothing to do with WoW, you need to finish highschool buddy cause "Alt" means alternate, which could mean alternate account, Alternate character, ectra.

Wow... THAT's what you take away from all this conversation?!? Troll much? (and I didn't even mention your high school spelling of et cetera (Latin for "and so on"), oh wait... I just did ;-)


Funny, that's all I got from your earlier comment, too. You lead with an ad-hominem attack so I assumed you had nothing valuable to say.

Just letting you know, if you want to communicate a logical point your tone matters, even more than your speling.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#27 - 2012-12-07 14:42:07 UTC
Personally, while I understand what CCP tried to do with the bounty system, I still find it flawed... not so much because you see who placed a bounty on you, but the fact that a bounty can be put on everyone. It became apperant in the first couple of minutes after the patch that this is... silly.

I mean, basically everyone I know had a bounty placed on them within the first hour... by "somebody" who happened to find their name through search... Not a high bounty, and it probably will never be claimed,... but still, what gives?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#28 - 2012-12-07 14:48:43 UTC
Giving random bounties is extremely funny at the moment, due to the amount of tears and hate mail it generates. I think once the novelty wears off, people will use bounties for the intended purposes rather than throwing them around like candy. It's just so prevalent right now because it's new.

There are many legitimate reasons for giving bounties which are intended by CCP. For example I am attempting to sell something, and someone under-cut my price. So I found out who it was, put a bounty on his head, told him not to undercut me or I'll put more on. Amazingly it worked, and it was really fun to do.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#29 - 2012-12-07 15:29:26 UTC
Yea, true, it may be the "it's new" thing... it doesn't really bother either... I just find it useless. *shrugs*

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#30 - 2012-12-07 16:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Blodhgarm Dethahal
Matrim of Manetheren wrote:
The bounty system IS broken by design.
In the trailer we see someone putting a huge bounty on another person and then everyone being "after him".
This is NOT how it works in game.
You are awarded only 20% of the ship value, so if you kill someone with a trillion bounty in a drake, you will get... 10 mill.
Nobody is going to chase you for such a trivial amount. For someone to become worthy of chasing, they need to fly a ship that costs at least 1 billion, and even that is on the low side...
Bounty hunting is also broken, since to kill a powerful ship you usually need an equally powerful ship, but you are awarded only 20% of the value of the ship destroyed, so you will need to win 6 out of 7 engagements to be on the positive, which simply won't work. Another options is to fly inexpensive ships like Hurricane and try to kill expensive targets, which could work but it's inefficient.
Also, since we figured out that 20% of ship value is not enough to gank for in high sec, where does the bounty matter ? Low and Null are shoot first, ask questions later...
What the current system has is the potential to grief people who didn't do anything, since they can't easily remove the bounty without wasting too much ISK. The people who actually deserve the bounty won't care about it anyway.
Make the payoff 50% or 75% instead of 20%. I'm guessing that it's 20% because a higher payoff will have bigger potential for abuse, but I'm sure you could find a way to deal with it.
This should be easy enough, all of the necessary mechanics are in place, just a few numbers need to be tweaked.


Keep in mind that's 20% Bounty from the Individual, Corp, and Alliance Level. So If someone has all 3 of those Bounties and gets killed in a Billion ISK Ship then that's 200mill from each level = 600 mill earned total. Then you could pod him and then get another payout.

I'm liking the Bounty System so far myself.
Matrim of Manetheren
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#31 - 2012-12-07 21:42:44 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:

Keep in mind that's 20% Bounty from the Individual, Corp, and Alliance Level. So If someone has all 3 of those Bounties and gets killed in a Billion ISK Ship then that's 200mill from each level = 600 mill earned total. Then you could pod him and then get another payout.

I'm liking the Bounty System so far myself.

I'm not sure that this is the case, I think that the different levels take priority on each other, so it's personal bounty>corp bounty>alliance bounty.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#32 - 2012-12-07 22:16:54 UTC
Matrim of Manetheren wrote:
The bounty system IS broken by design.
In the trailer we see someone putting a huge bounty on another person and then everyone being "after him".
This is NOT how it works in game.
You are awarded only 20% of the ship value, so if you kill someone with a trillion bounty in a drake, you will get... 10 mill.
Nobody is going to chase you for such a trivial amount. For someone to become worthy of chasing, they need to fly a ship that costs at least 1 billion, and even that is on the low side...
Bounty hunting is also broken, since to kill a powerful ship you usually need an equally powerful ship, but you are awarded only 20% of the value of the ship destroyed, so you will need to win 6 out of 7 engagements to be on the positive, which simply won't work. Another options is to fly inexpensive ships like Hurricane and try to kill expensive targets, which could work but it's inefficient.
Also, since we figured out that 20% of ship value is not enough to gank for in high sec, where does the bounty matter ? Low and Null are shoot first, ask questions later...
What the current system has is the potential to grief people who didn't do anything, since they can't easily remove the bounty without wasting too much ISK. The people who actually deserve the bounty won't care about it anyway.
Make the payoff 50% or 75% instead of 20%. I'm guessing that it's 20% because a higher payoff will have bigger potential for abuse, but I'm sure you could find a way to deal with it.
This should be easy enough, all of the necessary mechanics are in place, just a few numbers need to be tweaked.


Because if you Bounty a player and they insure their ship, then anything over 20% is potentially going to count as a return for them if they pod themselves.

The plus side, is currently you can go out and get bounties on you and your Corp mates, buy insurance, and supplement the cost of doing in-corporation PvP while collecting each others bounties and off-setting the insurance cost with the 20% bounty going to a Corp mate.

Actually, I think that is rather cool.
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Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-12-08 00:10:02 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
The plus side, is currently you can go out and get bounties on you and your Corp mates, buy insurance, and supplement the cost of doing in-corporation PvP while collecting each others bounties and off-setting the insurance cost with the 20% bounty going to a Corp mate.

Actually, I think that is rather cool.

Cool?!?!?!?! That is frick'in brilliant! Get the bounties off corp-mates and supplement training exercise costs? Awesome!
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
#34 - 2012-12-10 09:33:02 UTC
I don't see your problem.

If I want it anonymous, I use a service or a throw away char. But in most cases I just don't like that son of a ... and I want him to know that I was the one who wants to collect his head. If he has done something to me like ganking I can put a 20 million bounty on him and sell the killright for 2 million. If he pays back and places a bounty on my head? who cares. Doesn't have killrights on me and if get war dect, so be it.
Those War Targets would should me anyway (or try it).

At as often mentioned: It is all about consequences! If you place a bounty on that guy / Corp / Alliance, deal with the consequences!
Count Lucius Mollari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-12-20 21:03:52 UTC
Warning/Notification is the crux of the issue, it seems.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#36 - 2012-12-20 21:46:21 UTC

1.) Why do bounties need to be placed anonymously? I don't particularly see a reason for this.... but there are ways around it. Some players are starting "Place a bounty services", not to mention you can use an alt to obfuscate the bounty placer.

2.) The retribution trailer shows a 60 billion isk bounty... and he's flying a Widow... which, when fit up with only moderate bling, is easily worth over a billion... That 200m isk payout is enough to encourage even highsec suicide gank of his ship! How is this not working for you?
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