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Where does EVE subscription money go?
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reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-05 19:51:51 UTC

With Helmar's reference to non-revenue play, I'm just wondering about the economic model for Eve's subscriptions.

Would be interesting to understand how that money is applied-

I'm pretty sure we are paying for:

- Eve server and bandwidth. Associated salaries, etc, basically operations to keep the game running.
- New development and content for Eve. (I'd suggest not so much)

But how much are we Eve players paying for:

- DUST development?
- WoD development?
- Other?

I don't believe they post anything like these numbers, but as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.

Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.

Djeckson
#2 - 2011-10-05 19:57:41 UTC
reamau wrote:
as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.
That's the reality of all businesses. Some of the profit on things you buy at your local walmart will be used to put up a walmart in montana you will never use.

Deal with it.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#3 - 2011-10-05 19:59:39 UTC
The myth that subscriptions are required to pay for server and bandwidth have been debunked heavily by ArenaNet. Just an FYI.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#4 - 2011-10-05 20:01:29 UTC

Let me just put this PRESS INTERVIEW from CCP here...

www.wodnews.net/Home/tabid/41/ctl/ArticleView/mid/401/articleId/69/New-WoD-MMO-info-from-The-Grand-Masquerade.aspx

Quote:

Incarna is actually considered a prototype, the rendering engine that will ship with the MMO will be much more advanced.
Revajin
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-05 20:02:34 UTC
Oh wow, sorry, I was about to reply with something negative but then I remembered we all live in a magical fantasy world where buying anything from a company immediately makes you a shareholder and thus able to have an opinion on where that business should spend its money.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#6 - 2011-10-05 20:06:52 UTC
The money goes to CCP. You receive game time. End of transaction.


I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-05 20:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Norian Lonark
So when you buy a car from a manufacturer you don't expect any of those funds to go towards development of other models or when you buy a PC those companies don't develop other technologies?

Of course CCP are going to put funds into other projects this doesn't make them evil or mean that you arnt getting value for your subscription.

I'm more bothered that every-month the government takes taxes from me which I have no say in to fund layabouts who do feck all ShockedLol

Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#8 - 2011-10-05 20:08:39 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
The money goes to CCP. You receive game time. End of transaction.





It's never over until you purchase one of my luxury hulks.
reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-05 20:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: reamau
Djeckson wrote:
reamau wrote:
as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.
That's the reality of all businesses. Some of the profit on things you buy at your local walmart will be used to put up a walmart in montana you will never use.

Deal with it.


Such a nice simple response. Plenty of historical precedent for raising concerns about how a company behaves.

I don't see anything in my post claiming that I had a right to know every detail- but as any paying customer for a service, I should know what I'm paying for.

My point, perhaps too subtle for some, is that I bet we are getting shortchanged on EVE content due to other development efforts going elsewhere- development efforts probably paid for by Eve.

Paying for a new car is not the same thing as continuously paying for a service. Use a service as an example.

I know CCP has a right to make money, I just object to paying for a console game instead of new spaceships.

Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.

Revajin
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-05 20:14:55 UTC
reamau wrote:
Djeckson wrote:
reamau wrote:
as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.
That's the reality of all businesses. Some of the profit on things you buy at your local walmart will be used to put up a walmart in montana you will never use.

Deal with it.


Such a nice simple response. Plenty of historical precedent for raising concerns about how a company behaves.

I don't see anything in my post claiming that I had a right to know every detail- but as any paying customer for a service, I should know what I'm paying for.

My point, perhaps too subtle for some, is that I bet we are getting shortchanged on EVE content due to other development efforts going elsewhere- development efforts probably paid for by Eve.

Paying for a new car is not the same thing as continuously paying for a service. Use a service as an example.

I know CCP has a right to make money, I just object to paying for a console game instead of new spaceships.


You are told exactly what you are paying for. The ability to install and use the EVE Online client to connect to a CCP server and play the game.
Nel Gardier
Time Sync
#11 - 2011-10-05 20:32:11 UTC
Doesn't look like it's currently going far enough based on Hilmar's mea culpa/spin depending on how you want to look at it.

Amazing how your world view can change when the rest of the board tells you your job is on the line.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-05 20:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Norian Lonark
reamau wrote:
Djeckson wrote:
reamau wrote:
as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.
That's the reality of all businesses. Some of the profit on things you buy at your local walmart will be used to put up a walmart in montana you will never use.

Deal with it.


Such a nice simple response. Plenty of historical precedent for raising concerns about how a company behaves.

I don't see anything in my post claiming that I had a right to know every detail- but as any paying customer for a service, I should know what I'm paying for.

My point, perhaps too subtle for some, is that I bet we are getting shortchanged on EVE content due to other development efforts going elsewhere- development efforts probably paid for by Eve.

Paying for a new car is not the same thing as continuously paying for a service. Use a service as an example.

I know CCP has a right to make money, I just object to paying for a console game instead of new spaceships.


You might think its a nice simple response but you are being incredibly naive if you think your objections actually hold water.

Gas, Electricity, Phone, Broadband, Insurance all services which I pay for on a monthly basis and all my money goes to paying for the service and also funding the companies other products.

I cant think of any companies where I buy services from where I can say without a doubt that money is only going into the development or support of that one service.

Quite frankly I don't care. As long as I am happy with the service I will continue to pay, if I am not happy then I switch provider I don't phone up BT and tell them to stop developing their on-line services or streaming television services because I only use their phone and broadband.

Id say the way our funds are going to be redistributed within CCP EVE project with the focus shifting is great, but I dont feel bitter that CCP are spending my subscription on the development of other titles, just that the development focus of EVE has been out of tune with what the playerbase wants they could be using the exact same amount of my subscription on EVE, WOD and DUST but now the portion that is being spent on EVE seems like it is going to be spent more wisely.

Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-05 20:38:01 UTC
reamau wrote:

With Helmar's reference to non-revenue play, I'm just wondering about the economic model for Eve's subscriptions.

Would be interesting to understand how that money is applied-

I'm pretty sure we are paying for:

- Eve server and bandwidth. Associated salaries, etc, basically operations to keep the game running.
- New development and content for Eve. (I'd suggest not so much)

But how much are we Eve players paying for:

- DUST development?
- WoD development?
- Other?

I don't believe they post anything like these numbers, but as a player I'm not wild about funding development for games that I won't play at the expense of what I AM paying for.


Building Cost or Rent, Phone Lines, Computers, software licences, Gas, Electricity, Office supplies, Office Furniture, Building Upkeep. Contractor to mow the lawn, Business Licenses, taxes .etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

EVERYBODY KNOWS
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-05 20:49:47 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
[quote=reamau]

Building Cost or Rent, Phone Lines, Computers, software licences, Gas, Electricity, Office supplies, Office Furniture, Building Upkeep. Contractor to mow the lawn, Business Licenses, taxes .etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc



Which part of the "basically operations to keep the game running." you dont understand.
Jita Alt666
#15 - 2011-10-05 20:51:07 UTC
Dear Op: please provide a break down of where the money you pay for rent (if applicable) or your mortgage (if applicable) goes.
Jita Alt666
#16 - 2011-10-05 20:53:51 UTC
Revajin wrote:
Oh wow, sorry, I was about to reply with something negative but then I remembered we all live in a magical fantasy world where buying anything from a company immediately makes you a shareholder and thus able to have an opinion on where that business should spend its money.


Blame the rise in "ethical business". I want to know that the coffee I am drinking... ...here is some management speak for you:

Quote:
Consumers are not shareholders, but they are stakeholders who need to be kept happy
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#17 - 2011-10-05 20:55:09 UTC
Quote:
Where does EVE subscription money go?


It goes to CCP.

That's all we need to know. Once it's out of our pocket, it's theirs to do what they want with it.

If we are unhappy with how we think they are using it, we don't give them any more. If we feel we are getting what we pay for, we shell out for another month.

I'm good with that.

Mr Epeen Cool
reamau
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-05 20:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: reamau
I don't believe I'm being naive at all- new content has been promised many times, and over the last year it has been almost non-existant.

When looking at the company's info, they have one active product (Eve) and two large products in development.

It is not unreasonable for a company to spend a portion of its revenue on new product development- in fact, its probably neccessary in order to survive.

However, it is not unreasonable for paying customers to challenge what they paying for, especially if they feel they are not getting all of what they expect.

For all we know, maybe none of our subsciption fees are financing DUST and WoD, and its all paid for from loans or investors or whatever. Given the lack of new content for Eve, I kinda doubt it.

@Jita Alt666 - you'd have to ask my bank about the breakdown of my mortgage payment- I just write the check. That's repaying a loan, not paying for a service, so I'm not sure of the relevance.

@Epeen - if you read my opening post, you should see that I said something like "it would be interesting to see" or something like that, not demanding that they open their financials to my scrutiny.

Maybe I've worked for public companies for too long- we've always had to show basics of how much goes to R&D, marketing costs, and similar. I know CCP isn't public or even a US company- but I'm still allowed to suggest that maybe we are paying for something we aren't getting.

Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#19 - 2011-10-05 21:11:09 UTC
reamau wrote:

@Epeen - if you read my opening post, you should see that I said something like "it would be interesting to see" or something like that, not demanding that they open their financials to my scrutiny.



I did read it and I agree it would be interesting. But what a can of worms it would open with this bunch of entitled, self important financial geniuses that post here.

So I chose to simply respond to the query posited in the thread title.


Mr Epeen Cool
Revajin
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-10-05 21:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Revajin
reamau wrote:
However, it is not unreasonable for paying customers to challenge what they paying for, especially if they feel they are not getting all of what they expect.


So far CCP has provided what they promised. I was successfully able to run the EVE client and use it to connect to their servers. That's what I'm paying them for. The problem people have with videogames is that they assume that the money they pay is going towards what's in the actual game. That's simply not the case, you're paying for a license to use the software. That's all. The reality is CCP owes us nothing and some of us have a hard time grasping that.
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