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The Damage Control needs to be passive, now more than ever.

First post
Author
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#161 - 2012-12-07 11:38:01 UTC
Cycle down all modules as you enter warp for logoff or while midwarp, get over it and adapt.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#162 - 2012-12-07 12:07:49 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
You don't leave your guns on and forget about them until the fight is over.
That all depends on what kind of target you're engaging and how paranoid you are about the lag monster.

The point remains: you do not have to Ctrl-F1 your DCs anywhere near as constantly as some seem to suggest. The OP tries to paint it as something have to keep doing over and over again every time you do anything, when the fact of the matter is that you usually need to do it somewhere between once and never per outing.

Quote:
Except jumping. And undocking.
Neither of those mean you absolutely must push a button activate your DC, and yes, the situations that require you to do so are rare indeed and are completely decoupled from gate and station usage.

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#163 - 2012-12-07 12:17:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.

You think the DC is situational in a fight? I surely don't.
As others have mentioned, it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module. The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on. Reasons are obvious but I'll state them; it uses basically no cap and it gives a great boost to your ship. Why would you want to turn it off? To die faster? Well then, don't fit a tank!

I don't know how you play eve, but the way I play it, it is really annoying to have to activate it all the time, and yes, it is all the damn time when you camp two sides of a gate and chase people back and forth and get fights on both sides all the time.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#164 - 2012-12-07 12:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hannott Thanos wrote:
You think the DC is situational in a fight?
No. I think it's situational, period. Therefore, this whole idea that you have to turn it on after every jump or undock is bunk.

This entire thread hinges on the notion that you have to keep turning it on. The fact of the matter is that you don't. Thus the complaint becomes one of people being annoyed that they keep doing pointless things. The solution to this problem is not to alter the module they are obsessing over - it's to stop doing those pointless things.

Quote:
The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on.
And the other fact also remains: there is a point to it being on (and having to remember to do it) and to being able to turn it off (just because someone else makes the decision doesn't mean the ability becomes pointless).
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#165 - 2012-12-07 12:45:19 UTC
Quite clearly you have never camped two gates in nullsec with several characters at once before. Try understanding the situation of others before stating opinions as facts.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#166 - 2012-12-07 12:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Quite clearly you have never camped two gates in nullsec with several characters at once before.
Sure I have. That was one situation. Setting aside for a moment that there is no need to turn the DC on after every jump even in that case, it's still just that: a situation -- one among many. It doesn't change the fact that the DC is situational. If anything, it just further illustrates it.

Quote:
Try understanding the situation of others before stating opinions as facts.
Try understanding what "situational" means before ignoring facts just because they clash with your opinion.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#167 - 2012-12-07 12:55:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sure I have. That was one situation. Setting aside for a moment that there is no need to turn the DC on after every jump even in that case, it's still just that: a situation -- one among many. It doesn't change the fact that the DC is situational. If anything, it just further illustrates it.

You mean other than the need to activate it every jump because the only reason you jump is to fight? Again, try to understand the situation.

Tippia wrote:
Try understanding what "situational" means before ignoring facts just because they clash with your opinion.

"Position or status with regard to conditions and circumstances."
"of, relating to, or appropriate to a situation"

Appropriate to a situation. By definition, there needs to be a situation where it is inappropriate. Tell me a situation where it is appropriate to not have the DC active.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#168 - 2012-12-07 12:56:18 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.

You think the DC is situational in a fight? I surely don't.
As others have mentioned, it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module. The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on. Reasons are obvious but I'll state them; it uses basically no cap and it gives a great boost to your ship. Why would you want to turn it off? To die faster? Well then, don't fit a tank!

I don't know how you play eve, but the way I play it, it is really annoying to have to activate it all the time, and yes, it is all the damn time when you camp two sides of a gate and chase people back and forth and get fights on both sides all the time.


You know.... I think we need to look at the Damage Control too:

It effectively Doubles (or more) your effective structure HP. This basically adds a few hundred to a 1+m HP to your ship.
It increases your armor resists by 10-15%, and importantly, doesn't STACK with other resist modifier effects.
It increases your Shield Resists by 7.5-12.5%, and importantly, doesn't STACK with other resist modifier effects.

It costs 1 PG, 15-40 CPU, requires 1 Cap Pt to activate, and has a 30 second activation cycle.

The activation cycle is "soo long" that it inhibits you from logging off, so your solution is to make this module Passive? Really????

No... This module is extremely potent and of significant benefit to your ship.... It should NOT be made passive...

Instead, reduce its cycle time to 5 seconds or less. Now it won't hinder you logging off, it is more susceptible to being turned off by Energy Neutralizers.

But wait... there's more:

The opinion, "it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module" has some validity. As such, the cap usage of the DCU should be increased too. It should have it's activation increased to match it's duration, such that the DCU uses 1 cap / s (as opposed to 0.03333 cap / s). This way, just like an armor hardener, there is a meaning and purpose to "turning it on or keeping it off"; i.e. to save capacitor.

Is this not fair? It means an awesome module that provides awesome benefits actually has a reasonable cost and it allows you to log off quickly!!!
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#169 - 2012-12-07 12:58:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Every module I can think of in this game has an advantage to being either off or on. On, it does it's job, off it will save you cap, or in speed terms, let you align faster. The damage Control has no advantage to being off. Ever

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Doddy
Excidium.
#170 - 2012-12-07 13:00:27 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.

You think the DC is situational in a fight? I surely don't.
As others have mentioned, it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module. The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on. Reasons are obvious but I'll state them; it uses basically no cap and it gives a great boost to your ship. Why would you want to turn it off? To die faster? Well then, don't fit a tank!

I don't know how you play eve, but the way I play it, it is really annoying to have to activate it all the time, and yes, it is all the damn time when you camp two sides of a gate and chase people back and forth and get fights on both sides all the time.


Just how much combat are you in that you need to turn on your dc "all teh time" cos i want to be there.
Doddy
Excidium.
#171 - 2012-12-07 13:01:29 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sure I have. That was one situation. Setting aside for a moment that there is no need to turn the DC on after every jump even in that case, it's still just that: a situation -- one among many. It doesn't change the fact that the DC is situational. If anything, it just further illustrates it.

You mean other than the need to activate it every jump because the only reason you jump is to fight? Again, try to understand the situation.

Tippia wrote:
Try understanding what "situational" means before ignoring facts just because they clash with your opinion.

"Position or status with regard to conditions and circumstances."
"of, relating to, or appropriate to a situation"

Appropriate to a situation. By definition, there needs to be a situation where it is inappropriate. Tell me a situation where it is appropriate to not have the DC active.


any time you are not taking damage .....
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#172 - 2012-12-07 13:02:39 UTC
Doddy wrote:

Just how much combat are you in that you need to turn on your dc "all teh time" cos i want to be there.

Find a nice pipe in nullsec and throw up some dragbubbles on both sides of one or two gates. Up around J-C for instance. Lot of people going home from a fleet, or haulers and ratters.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Doddy
Excidium.
#173 - 2012-12-07 13:02:45 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.

You think the DC is situational in a fight? I surely don't.
As others have mentioned, it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module. The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on. Reasons are obvious but I'll state them; it uses basically no cap and it gives a great boost to your ship. Why would you want to turn it off? To die faster? Well then, don't fit a tank!

I don't know how you play eve, but the way I play it, it is really annoying to have to activate it all the time, and yes, it is all the damn time when you camp two sides of a gate and chase people back and forth and get fights on both sides all the time.


You know.... I think we need to look at the Damage Control too:

It effectively Doubles (or more) your effective structure HP. This basically adds a few hundred to a 1+m HP to your ship.
It increases your armor resists by 10-15%, and importantly, doesn't STACK with other resist modifier effects.
It increases your Shield Resists by 7.5-12.5%, and importantly, doesn't STACK with other resist modifier effects.

It costs 1 PG, 15-40 CPU, requires 1 Cap Pt to activate, and has a 30 second activation cycle.

The activation cycle is "soo long" that it inhibits you from logging off, so your solution is to make this module Passive? Really????

No... This module is extremely potent and of significant benefit to your ship.... It should NOT be made passive...

Instead, reduce its cycle time to 5 seconds or less. Now it won't hinder you logging off, it is more susceptible to being turned off by Energy Neutralizers.

But wait... there's more:

The opinion, "it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module" has some validity. As such, the cap usage of the DCU should be increased too. It should have it's activation increased to match it's duration, such that the DCU uses 1 cap / s (as opposed to 0.03333 cap / s). This way, just like an armor hardener, there is a meaning and purpose to "turning it on or keeping it off"; i.e. to save capacitor.

Is this not fair? It means an awesome module that provides awesome benefits actually has a reasonable cost and it allows you to log off quickly!!!


Don't be daft, clearly the damage control is the one mod in eve needing a major buff, otherwise why this thread?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-12-07 13:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sure I have. That was one situation. Setting aside for a moment that there is no need to turn the DC on after every jump even in that case, it's still just that: a situation -- one among many. It doesn't change the fact that the DC is situational. If anything, it just further illustrates it.

You mean other than the need to activate it every jump because the only reason you jump is to fight? Again, try to understand the situation.

Tippia wrote:
Try understanding what "situational" means before ignoring facts just because they clash with your opinion.

"Position or status with regard to conditions and circumstances."
"of, relating to, or appropriate to a situation"

Appropriate to a situation. By definition, there needs to be a situation where it is inappropriate. Tell me a situation where it is appropriate to not have the DC active.


How about... when you're not being shot at?

Running it otherwise is like running your car's headlights in broad daylight. Sure, it accomplishes nothing, it doesn't waste battery because it's being recharged by the alternator, but in the end, the situation doesn't call for them to be on. Headlights are situational, appropriate to the situation of night time. But it doesn't mean you can't run them during daylight - some people do it just to look awesome cuz they have xenons or something fancy.

Just like DC is appropriate to the situation of combat. It takes nought but a fraction of a second to get it activated when someone starts targeting you, and so you'll have it well and truly running by the time they start shooting.

Unless, of course, you're not paying attention, in which case DC won't save you anyway and you probably deserve to explode.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#175 - 2012-12-07 13:03:21 UTC
Doddy wrote:

any time you are not taking damage .....

It's still more appropriate to keep it on in case you will take damage. This is Eve you know....

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#176 - 2012-12-07 13:04:14 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Hardeners are situational.
...exactly like the DC. If the situation doesn't call for it, it's pointless to turn it on, and complaining about your decision to repeatedly do something that is pointless only provides an argument for not doing those pointless things. Your inability to keep your fingers off the module is not a reason to change that module.

You think the DC is situational in a fight? I surely don't.
As others have mentioned, it should have a meaning and a purpose to turn it off or on when it is an active module. The fact remains, there are no situation where you explicitly do not want your DC to be on. Reasons are obvious but I'll state them; it uses basically no cap and it gives a great boost to your ship. Why would you want to turn it off? To die faster? Well then, don't fit a tank!

I don't know how you play eve, but the way I play it, it is really annoying to have to activate it all the time, and yes, it is all the damn time when you camp two sides of a gate and chase people back and forth and get fights on both sides all the time.


Just how much combat are you in that you need to turn on your dc "all teh time" cos i want to be there.


You have to turn the DCU on every time you uncloak to enter combat. You have to turn the DCU on every time you jump through a gate or portal or cyno and enter combat.... There are many times you have to turn this module on when "entering" combat.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2012-12-07 13:05:37 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Doddy wrote:

any time you are not taking damage .....

It's still more appropriate to keep it on in case you will take damage. This is Eve you know....


If you start taking damage before you can get your DC on, then you fail at EVE.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#178 - 2012-12-07 13:06:03 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

How about... when you're not being shot at?

Running it otherwise is like running your car's headlights in broad daylight. Sure, it accomplishes nothing, it doesn't waste battery because it's being recharged by the alternator, but in the end, the situation doesn't call for them to be on. Headlights are situational, appropriate to the situation of night time. Just like DC is appropriate to the situation of combat. It takes nought but a fraction of a second to get it activated when someone starts targeting you, and so you'll have it well and truly running by the time they start shooting.

Unless, of course, you're not paying attention, in which case DC won't save you anyway and you probably deserve to explode.

I don't know where you are from, but in my country it's illegal to drive without headlights, ever. So I'll twist your words and say you think that a passive DC should be mandatory. Peace yo!

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2012-12-07 13:08:56 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

How about... when you're not being shot at?

Running it otherwise is like running your car's headlights in broad daylight. Sure, it accomplishes nothing, it doesn't waste battery because it's being recharged by the alternator, but in the end, the situation doesn't call for them to be on. Headlights are situational, appropriate to the situation of night time. Just like DC is appropriate to the situation of combat. It takes nought but a fraction of a second to get it activated when someone starts targeting you, and so you'll have it well and truly running by the time they start shooting.

Unless, of course, you're not paying attention, in which case DC won't save you anyway and you probably deserve to explode.

I don't know where you are from, but in my country it's illegal to drive without headlights, ever. So I'll twist your words and say you think that a passive DC should be mandatory. Peace yo!


That's your problem, twisting words. You're twisting a lot of words in this thread, and inventing facts. I live in Australia, where we have this thing called the Sun, and when the Sun is up, everyone can see just fine, so headlights aren't necessary, nor are they mandatory. So my analogy is still relevant. Just because your laws are different, doesn't mean they are smart.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#180 - 2012-12-07 13:10:08 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Doddy wrote:

any time you are not taking damage .....

It's still more appropriate to keep it on in case you will take damage. This is Eve you know....


If you start taking damage before you can get your DC on, then you fail at EVE.

What are smartbombs?

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}