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New CEO Looking for Help
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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-12-06 10:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Hello Everyone,

As the title says, I'm a new CEO looking for help regarding my corporation. My corporation is mostly real life friends but we've grown to 7 people (some not rl friends) in the last 30 days. We're all still incredibly new to the game as well, each having about 1 mil + sp. Because most of my corp mates are rl friends, and I want them to have fun (yet they still yield to me in decision making), I want to be the best CEO I can be. To that end, I've ramped up recruiting efforts and asked for corporation member leadership in helping me recruit. We're looking to at least double our numbers. Once that goal is reached, however, I'm concerned about what I should do next. They really do look to me for guidance on a lot of issues.

Most of us are long-time mmo players that are extremely excited to have found an mmo that can hold our attention for longer than a few months. We are excited to finally play a game where the extra time spent out of game reading guides is actually beneficial, if not necessary. We are in EVE for the long haul. With that in mind, I have a few questions for players in general and especially corporation directors and CEOs:

-At the moment we are a small mining and manufacturing corporation that surprisingly enjoys staring at asteroids. About two weeks after the corporation was founded we moved to a 0.5 security zone called Nein and have had an excellent time mining there. Most members are finally reaching their barges; By the end of the week, each member will be able to fly a barge. Our corporation's focus is mining and helping new players learn the ropes and make some isk.

--My question is: How many members would you want to have a mining corporation to have before moving to null security, and how many of those members should be on security detail? I want to move to null sec before too long but I also don't want to get my corporation's members horribly killed. I know EVE is never safe, and we don't fly what we cannot afford to lose, but I do wish for us to be able to withstand some forms of conflict while out mining. Mining corporations, what do you do for security? What are some tips to be safer?

-A goal for many of my members is to participate in sov and hold our own system. Many of us have dreams of building the corporation to be a large, well known entity. Still, we'd stick to our mining roots. My question is: When is a reasonable time frame for attempting to participate in sov? Again, I know my members want to participate but I don't want them to die horribly. I wish to be able to give them a fair estimate.

These are just a few of my questions. I've tried to lurk as much as I can to glean all the information possible but I know I've missed tons of it. If any of you don't want to answer yourselves even a link to a good answer for my questions would be wonderful.

Thanks for reading my wall of text. I hope to hear from you soon.

Fly Safe,

Siekman


Point 1:

Good, you made clear that: You are miners, You have barges, Gave your location to anybody in EVE that reads the forum, are all low SP characters so will lack the punch to fight....

In before Wardec.

Point 2:

You are ready for null-sec when you feel like it. The smaller you are the harder it will be though. And ALL members should be able to defend them self and others if you want to survive in null-sec. There is no I can mine while others do all the defending.

So all members, even the miners will have to train up those PvP skills. Otherwise you will have a hard time in SOV null-sec cause enemies don't leave you alone cause you are a miner, they will specially pick on you. Same with the alliance you are in, people hate loosing ships while you are mining and making money (Stand together, die together).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-12-06 10:31:55 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Okay, I myself and another member are training as combat pilots. As difficult as it may be, I will try to convince my members to start training combat ships. Here's a question though, why can't our corporation just have a mining subdivision while maintaining an active combat pilot role. Is that possible?

Also, many of us live for pvp , mining was just a beginning front to financing our ships, and we fell in love with asteroid - staring .

Thanks for responding,

Siekman



Nullsec mining doesn't pay much better than highsec mining, and you need to invest a lot into it to make it worth it.

To put it in perspective...

You are going to need a Rorqual and a pilot for it with good skills, including Leadership skills. That's around 4 billion isk for skill books, hull and fittings. And you'll need to budget jump drive fuel just to move it.
Frying Doom
#23 - 2012-12-06 10:34:50 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Point 1:

Good, you made clear that: You are miners, You have barges, Gave your location to anybody in EVE that reads the forum, are all low SP characters so will lack the punch to fight....

In before Wardec.

Now this is EvE surely no one would wardec a small group of miners.

You try saying that with a straight face Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-12-06 10:45:55 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
Okay, I myself and another member are training as combat pilots. As difficult as it may be, I will try to convince my members to start training combat ships. Here's a question though, why can't our corporation just have a mining subdivision while maintaining an active combat pilot role. Is that possible?

Also, many of us live for pvp , mining was just a beginning front to financing our ships, and we fell in love with asteroid - staring .

Thanks for responding,

Siekman


Because any SOV alliance that is worth mentioning requires ALL people to help and defend their space. No exceptions, if you want to mine without being forced into PvP then null-sec is not your place to be.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-12-06 10:55:22 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

I am criminal scum of the lowest order.


Watch out people. Look up Frying Doom in game and you'll see that he is a wanted man. He's probably wardec'ing us all right now and plotting other nefarious schemes.

Frying Doom
#26 - 2012-12-06 10:58:24 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

I am criminal scum of the lowest order.


Watch out people. Look up Frying Doom in game and you'll see that he is a wanted man. He's probably wardec'ing us all right now and plotting other nefarious schemes.


Completely

While my nefarious schemes have been guessed at none know the full extent of my evil plans. Twisted

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#27 - 2012-12-06 10:59:26 UTC
Null needs dedicated industry pilots
all you need is some well skilled mining pilots and you can join up with a null alliance and mine to your hearts content.
I'd recommend one of the HBC members

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-12-06 11:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
(1) You have to realize that you cannot protect a mining operation - hostiles are not going to warp a battlecruiser or two to your belt or grav site, they will drop enough recons and bombers on top of you to annihilate your mining operation along with any "security detail" you might have present.
Having pvp pilots sit around idly for hours babysitting your miners does not provide any protection but is a sure way to ruin their morale. No matter how many combat ships you have in your grav site or belt, you'll still have to run from every single neutral.

(2) You need combat pilots because any reasonable alliance will ask you to contribute to fleets according to your corp size. Mining is not valuable to the alliance as no matter how many hours a day your pilots are mining (and how cheap you sell your minerals to the alliance) you will never get remotely close to filling their demand for minerals and they will still rely almost completely on mineral imports from high-sec.
Renter alliances won't care if you have any pvp pilots but they are notoriously unstable, often hold poor space, you have no influence on the recruitment standards other renters employ (so every blue is a potential awoxer) and you do of course have to pay steep monthly dues.

(3) Look at a table of ore prices (e.g. http://lmd.net/ore.cgi/ore.cgi) and ask yourself if mining in 0.0 is actually worth the hassle. Don't just assume that ABC ores have to be much better than anything you might find in high-sec, do the actual math.

.
DerArt1st
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-12-06 12:36:44 UTC
Siekman Beldrulf wrote:
How many members would you want to have a mining corporation to have before moving to null security.


Thats easy: 0

Siekman Beldrulf wrote:

Mining corporations, what do you do for security? What are some tips to be safer?


Inject some pvp skills and learn how to use them effectively.

There is just no place in 0.0 for pure miningcorps imho.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#30 - 2012-12-06 12:53:04 UTC
In theory if you were industrialist instead of purely miners you may find a space in a HBC or CFC alliance, but what you didn't do on the battlefield you would be exected to do via insdustry:

i.e. providng a load of ships and modules, hauling stuff round etc all at 0 cost to the alliance.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#31 - 2012-12-06 13:53:21 UTC
As an ex miner, I would suggest not to waste time to have ALL your members switch to PvP skills. Mining has a corp in HS will eventually attract trouble for you and your corp m8s. If you guys cannot defend yourselves, you may find your game play become very boring and frustrating. If you guys on the other hand can swap mining barges (or exhumers) to respectable PvP ships (at a minimum Battlecruisers with logi support), you can have a lot of fun when "aggressors" start messing with you. This could eventually make you guys quit mining and become a PvP corp who knows.

Don't just be miners. Be miners with teeths!!
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#32 - 2012-12-06 14:25:08 UTC
We have a small mining corporation in our alliance, basically evacuees from an appalling corporation we booted. I gave them the opportunity to stay out in nullsec. They, like you are a small corp of mostly quite new players so I made them a deal, we assist and help, have them in nullsec to mine and build BUT we expect participation in what we do. That means sometimes fleeting up even if its just in frigates to explode people when necessary.

Fortunately they are fine with that aspect. What I recommend is that you branch into not 'just' mining, make yourselves more helpful, maybe some lightweight pvp ability, even if its just frigates. Make yourselves valuable, peopel often see miners as simply people who want to line their own pockets using space that others fought to attain, dont be like that. Be more.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#33 - 2012-12-06 17:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Toku Jiang
If you truly are a group of RL friends playing this game, and you all can agree to pool resources and share without worry of corp theft, I would get everyone in mining barges and keep mining your little hearts out. With the price of minerals you can very easily make steady progress without much loss. Have at least one person train towards an Orca, even as new players that shouldn't take long. Once you do that, start buying core ship and combat oriented skillbooks and train up to be able to fly T2 fit battlecruisers, keep mining while you build up your core skills and combat skills. I would mine for the first 2-3 months, look into making some T1 items that yield some profit (these items will most likely only yield a low profit (5-10%), but it will be better than selling minerals outright so long as you watch the market). Yeah it sounds boring, but you can easily stockpile several billion isk doing this and everyone will be better off to start their PvP lives. It also gives you a profession to fall back on should you get in a tight spot financially.

About the time you are ready to fly a T2 fit BC you will have plenty of isk to get started in PvP. I would suggest doing some quick roams in fast ships (T1 fit cruisers, destroyers, frigates) and get yourselves into as many fights as possible in null sec if this is truly where you want to go. You won't win a lot of fights in those ships (but believe me you will win some), but you will all gain valuable experience in ship tactics, enemy tactics, what fits work, what doesn't, etc. These ships are cheap to lose and you can have a lot of fun learning, and make your corp seen. Once you get a few kills under your belts and feel more confident in PvP, I would then break out a couple of T2 fit BC fleets and see what damage you can do. I would also start trying to appeal to a null sec alliance to join. Your never going to hold null sec solo as a corp, your going to need friends if you want to live in null sec.

All in all I would project if your really dedicated and stick with it you could end up in null sec in 6-8 months or less if you find a willing alliance, longer if you need to build a reputation for yourselves.

As for long term manufacturing/mining, it will depend on the alliance. There are several Alliances out there that are looking for manufacturers to build stuff for them at a discount to allow them some space in their null sec area. You will still be expected to join fights however.

Oh and I would quickly move my corp to another part of space as you gave out your corps location and you are going to get some greifers war decing you shortly if they haven't already.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-12-06 18:28:36 UTC
playing a whole month, not knowing anything about the game but wants nothing less than playing in the 0.0 CEO´S league...well GL, but I personnly dont think that eve is THAT easy tbh.

shar'ra phone home
Gangname Style
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-12-07 01:01:10 UTC
Also keep in mind doing a wardec costs at the very least 50mil per week to activate.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#36 - 2012-12-07 01:25:01 UTC
Effective troll; you even told them where you are. Smile
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Tesal
#37 - 2012-12-07 03:48:05 UTC
If you want to learn how to defend yourself you will need to learn the basics of pvp. Learn to fly a rifter or a thrasher and learn to fit a warp disruptor which will keep the enemy from warping away, and stasis webifier to slow them down and microwarpdrive so you can catch them quickly. You really need to learn the basics of pvp as well or you will be a big target. At least think about joining an established corp even though it would mean giving up on your current venture. You can learn to pvp from more experienced players there. If you do join another corp make sure, not every corp does a lot of pvp though, so pick carefully. Look at how long they have been around and look at their killboard to make sure they actually pvp.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#38 - 2012-12-07 05:04:49 UTC
Gangname Style wrote:
The sad truth is that sooner or later some badmen will target your corp for a wardec and you will be in trouble. (Now that you posted on the forums the chance of this will increase tenfold. Oops)




^^THIS. More likely than not.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Amitious Turkey
10kSubnautic
Warriors of the Blood God
#39 - 2012-12-07 05:36:34 UTC
This is both what I love and what I hate about Eve: It is cruel, harsh, and unforgiving Shocked

While I am inclined to feel sorry for you guys now, it doesn't mean I won't blow them up the first chance I get. I both love and hate myself, so much. I'd be just as inclined to help out if I see you in a jam actually Ugh

But I will repeat the advice given: Move to wormholes. They are friendly (or, more so) to small corps/solo players. It does however require a bit of a steep SP sink to live in one effectively (though as soon as you train up probing skills you could probably move in with that many people. If you already have mining skills, you should have a fair income. But much more important than SP, it requires a LOT of patience, good logistics, teamwork, planning, and balls of steel (you never know who may be stalking you).

Best of luck, I'll be rooting for you even as I blow up your ships Big smile

I like to lick things.

Haunting the forums since 03.
Siekman Beldrulf
Gingerbread Spacemen
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#40 - 2012-12-07 05:54:53 UTC
Thanks everyone for the replies! While it's true that I know that I made a terrible mistake, I'm glad that so many of you were willing to give me some advice even if it was a quick tip like: "You're Screwed!"

I appreciate all the messages and especially the support. Also, thank you to all those who have messaged me in game, it's nice to have so many people willing to give me in-game help. I hope to see all of you in game sometime.

Sincerely,

Siekman.
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