These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Faction warfare, A pay to win exploit.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#41 - 2012-12-08 05:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Perkin Warbeck
Trinkets friend wrote:
While in that corporation, you go around AWOXing as many of your fellow militia members as you possibly can; anyone who is stupid enough to shoot back or assists their friend loses faction standings. Eventually, their corporation standings drop too low, and then their whole Alliance drops too low, and gets booted from the Militia. This because under no circumstances can you warp off to get away from, get a neutral alt to kill, or get an Amarr/Caldari alt to kill, the known and obvious Awoxer.

Clearly CCP has a bit of work to do to make this game completely idiot proof.


Fixed it for you.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#42 - 2012-12-08 05:58:03 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
No.

You shoot something/someone that is not a legitimate target you should get slammed with tickets, subpoenas and short men in the shower called 'Big Earl' .

Since the characters in question are themselves shooting allies they will soon find themselves kicked from militia (at least I think that is how it works now), so take down their names and when they are removed check periodically if they have been biomassed .. when that happens petition them and get the controller banned (biomassing to avoid consequences is a NoNo).

The lame duck will soon find his accounts filled with useless alts, aka. you win.

As for sec: Do what was suggested years ago. Move all sec gain to low-sec, where the crimes are committed and slap an extra modifier on rats in FW space to sweeten the deal .. perps (hopefully armed) roaming the countryside to appease Concord can only improve the lives of the pew'ers.

In short: CCP recently (2 years ago = yesterday with regards to FW changes) changed when/how people are ejected from FW due to standings so work within that system to discourage the described behaviour.


You really do not understand faction warfare at all, do you?

The tactic in question relies on the 7 day escrow period on including the standings of a toon joining a player corporation (and alliance) towards the overall corporation's standings toward the militia and faction. ie; for 7 days, your -8.0 vs Minmatar doesn't count toward the faction standings for Blobcats.

This 7 day period before their negative standings affect corporation standings is gameable, if you leave your corporation before the 7 day period is up, it's as if you were never in that corporation. While in that corporation, you go around AWOXing as many of your fellow militia members as you possibly can; anyone who shoots back or assists their friend loses faction standings. Eventually, their corporation standings drop too low, and then their whole Alliance drops too low, and gets booted from the Militia.

As Cynthia aka Perkin says, it is pretty sad that ushra'Khan couldn't figure out how to math properly. But either way, the maths are strongly against U'K in this fight between Cynthia and her alts and Dan Carter Murray and his alts, who get to knock massive faction standings off U'K for no penalty to the Caerise toon or the Blobcats corporation at all.

This is essentially similar to, eg, gaming the price of items in your ship's hold to ridiculous levels, and blowing up ships to recieve ridiculous LP payouts. Or somehow figuring out how to fly around highsec unmolested by the faction popo ganking people in your alliance without being CONCORDOKKENED.

It is an abuse of a game rule or system.

The game rule is there to allow militia corporations to pick up members in good faith now that recruiters cannot check the personal standings of recruits to militia and factions, and gives them 7 days to straighten up their standings as much as possible. It is not there, as far as I am aware, to allow people to freely and without consequences AWOX militia members, roll out of a corp every 6 days (in this case, directly to the opposing militia) in some cases in between docking and undocking.

So. I would like to hear from Veshta how the Caerise toon will be kicked from Minmatar militia from the consequences of the controlling player's action. Why would the person controlling the Caerise toon biomass that toon when it can be recycled indefinitely between Amarr militia, and Minmatar militia?

The asymmetry of the maths in this equation are basically infinite, and once Caerise has neutered U'K the controlling player can move up to Kourm and start on whomever. The only defence is a wardec, which has consequences for highsec transits by players, as now Blobcats can accept allies or members to assist in the war.


Clearly CCP has a bit of work to do.


You are a pathological liar, that is all I will say.
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-12-08 08:02:42 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
It is an abuse of a game rule or system.


Again, your militias (GalMatar) started this kind of awoxing way back. And it was not a problem then or you would have been in forums, loudly condemming your own militia.

So whine more. Karma is a B.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#44 - 2012-12-08 09:01:08 UTC
I don't give a crap if you think I'm a pathological liar. Such accusations mean you cannot refute anything I say with rationality or evidence, because of truthifying, so QED, suck on my hairy man cherries.

I also don't particularly care if Adolf or anyone else does it or did it.

I do care about making the game logically consistent. It is utterly illogical that you should be able to game the system this way, and this only exists because CCP allows it to - which is a result of tradeoffs made due to other design limitations in the game. This is all fixable and preventable, just like the magnetar haxx was.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-12-08 09:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mich Farmer
Trinkets friend wrote:
I do care about making the game logically consistent. It is utterly illogical that you should be able to game the system this way, and this only exists because CCP allows it to.


I'm sure they will eventually fix it so you cannot Awox Gal/Matar but can keep awoxing Amarr/Caldari if their previous design logic is any indication. I mean, how many more advantages can they hand out to you?

I mean, CCP itself brought a whole fleet yesterday to hamper our defensive plexing efforts to Old Man star. Oh sure, they can say "live event, giving people something to do, etc." but causing time dilation and other aspects which cause havoc with FW mechanics is downright irresponsible, especially in system which is considered someones home.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#46 - 2012-12-08 10:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Panala
Trinkets friend wrote:
...suck on my hairy man cherries. ...




I will give you some evidence: today I tried to have 5 fights with members of your alliance. Every single time your guy ran away and came back with a fleet of at least 5 to gank me, or they just docked. You and your whole alliance do nothing in this game other than bad attempts at griefing. Like the wise man said just above your post "karma is a B".

I could refute every single one of your "points", but as you do in ingame channels, "suck on my hairy man cherries." - what is to refute here?

Trinkets friend wrote:
The only defence is a wardec, which has consequences for highsec transits by players, as now Blobcats can accept allies or members to assist in the war.


War is mutual now of course, could you please stop lying just for a moment? You are afraid of the consequences, you already started to move your high sec operations into neutral corps, talking about gaming the system? Yes, I would be afraid too if I were just another risk averse, inexperienced player with more "likes" than kills in a year.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=84744
Antares 04
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-12-08 20:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Antares 04
Mich Farmer wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I do care about making the game logically consistent. It is utterly illogical that you should be able to game the system this way, and this only exists because CCP allows it to.


I'm sure they will eventually fix it so you cannot Awox Gal/Matar but can keep awoxing Amarr/Caldari if their previous design logic is any indication. I mean, how many more advantages can they hand out to you?

I mean, CCP itself brought a whole fleet yesterday to hamper our defensive plexing efforts to Old Man star. Oh sure, they can say "live event, giving people something to do, etc." but causing time dilation and other aspects which cause havoc with FW mechanics is downright irresponsible, especially in system which is considered someones home.


I can *taste* your bitterness all the way over here. You are yet another in a long list of people who feel entitled to your whining over factors you don't fully know anything about. The Republican/Federal militias have used these exploits for a long time? Yes, I'm sure they have - show me the treads detailing their efforts - I want names, methods, proff.

I am sure they will, eventually, fix this so that AWOXING anyone anywhere in FW is no longer such a simply and risk-free endeavor, and I'm sure then that you will find something else to ***** on the Fed/Rep militias about.

As for CCP's events, yet another example of how you will find any excuse to complain about your 'enemy' militia - I'm sure if they landed in Tama they would be there to hamper the Cal-mil's efforts in some way, it's all a grand conspiricy against you, isn't it?

This is a game, hater. If you can't treat it like one or calm down you should quit it.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#48 - 2012-12-09 06:59:04 UTC
Antares 04 wrote:
The Republican/Federal militias have used these exploits for a long time? Yes, I'm sure they have - show me the treads detailing their efforts - I want names, methods, proff.


Are you really expect the man to waste his time by finding his own posts from YEARS AGO?
Luscar Seneca
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-12-09 08:00:21 UTC
I'm sure they are annoying but you should solve the problem in game with the mechanics available. We've all dealt with before and you won't be getting any sympathy here.

But good luck out there ;)
Antares 04
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-12-09 08:27:58 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Antares 04 wrote:
The Republican/Federal militias have used these exploits for a long time? Yes, I'm sure they have - show me the treads detailing their efforts - I want names, methods, proff.


Are you really expect the man to waste his time by finding his own posts from YEARS AGO?


If he wants people to take his claims seriously without writing him off as a baseless liar offering complaints, as opposed to credible arguments?

Yes.
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-12-09 08:52:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mich Farmer
Antares 04 wrote:
This is a game, hater. If you can't treat it like one or calm down you should quit it.


Says a person whose corpie and CEO send death threats over internet pixels. You do know it was EL-G, Seriph and Ankh who started this whole thing and where all the hatred comes from.

And yes, I accuse CCP of serving favors. Time dilation makes it slower to cap the plex timer so if we had fought in OMS plex and killed frogs, they would have received a time advantage to reship next door. As CCP has already served only the gallente interest over the years, this is just one more signal for Caldari players that "We dont like your money, unsub now so we can remove FW entirely".

Of course that is small peanuts compared to farming travesty they just reintroduced, quess again those whose benefit.

As for Awoxers, it was started first by Rancer people then continued by likes of Adolf E. and others and always against Caldari militia first. I dont see need to go into details over things which should be obvious to anyone with a grasp of FW history.
Antares 04
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-12-09 21:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Antares 04
Mich Farmer wrote:
Antares 04 wrote:
This is a game, hater. If you can't treat it like one or calm down you should quit it.


Says a person whose corpie and CEO send death threats over internet pixels. You do know it was EL-G, Seriph and Ankh who started this whole thing and where all the hatred comes from.(1)

And yes, I accuse CCP of serving favors. Time dilation makes it slower to cap the plex timer so if we had fought in OMS plex and killed frogs, they would have received a time advantage to reship next door. As CCP has already served only the gallente interest over the years, this is just one more signal for Caldari players that "We dont like your money, unsub now so we can remove FW entirely".

Of course that is small peanuts compared to farming travesty they just reintroduced, quess again those whose benefit.

As for Awoxers, it was started first by Rancer people then continued by likes of Adolf E. and others and always against Caldari militia first. I dont see need to go into details over things which should be obvious to anyone with a grasp of FW history.


(1) Loggs, copies of mails, some proof? This may be old history and I care little for 'who started it' but if you want to make claims like this, I'm assuming you have anything but your word alone - that won't suffice. Spreading baseless slander and libel is easy - digging up your proven facts is a little bit harder.

As for your accusations about CCP bias, they are about as bland and hollow as Damar's claims. What militia was it that took all the 101 systems in our theater again? What did CCP assumably do to stop that? anything at all?

Who was it that was rewarded Gallente ships during all this time, ships using hybrid weapons, provenly inferior to the other weapon systems thanks to years of small buff and nerfs that rendered them near obsolete for a period? I recall that period well, do you?

Tell me again who it was that built a de-facto alliance among corporations before alliances were allowed into FW, while the Caldari were pillaging Minmatar FW with standings exploits?

That the Caldari FW groups are unable to do something similar now that alliances are allowed and form a unified front against us is not our fault - that is due Caldari ineptitude and your inability to get along and cooperate. We have not had nearly as many problems with this. Perhaps, if we take all your space, you will be able to band together out of need, much like we did? Who knows, could be interesting to see.

As for the 'farming traverst' - that disgusting period was caused by other factors - the decline of the Caldari, the power the Fed held at the time (and still do) the power of the Minmatar, an the decline of the Amarr - that the system could be farmed like that was made possible for all factions - you are just bitter that yours were not on top. I don't think we would hear any complaints form you were the situation reversed...

As for AWOXING, again, you have not provided me anything solid to back your claims up, and Adolf Ehrnrooth had standing-boosted corporations in ALL the militias, AWOXING them all on rotation - a habit he seems to have started after he left PERVS, paused only for a few stints in Draketrain. Ergo, if he was not fighting for the Caldari/Amarr, he was AWOXING everyone in turn.

Your "I don't see the need to get into details on history" is a cope-out - Assume that I don't know and prove to me your accusations are correct and more than just accusation, or forever STFU with your baseless slandering. I have little patience for your kind of bitter haters, so if you can't bring anything substantial to back up your claims I've no choice but to assume your just here to cast blame and spread lies.


*EDIT* Corrected the number of systems - It's 101 systems IIRC, not 10 XD
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-12-09 21:56:05 UTC
Antares 04 wrote:
As for your accusations about CCP bias, they are about as bland and hollow as Damar's claims. What militia was it that took all the 10 systems in our theater again? What did CCP assumably do to stop that? anything at all?


- Nerfed Caldari NPC's without announcement
- Changed plex spawn mechanics to favor original owner
- Allowed you to stop plex despawning without deeming it exploit

Those are something on top of my list.
Antares 04
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-12-09 22:55:26 UTC
Mich Farmer wrote:
Antares 04 wrote:
As for your accusations about CCP bias, they are about as bland and hollow as Damar's claims. What militia was it that took all the 10 systems in our theater again? What did CCP assumably do to stop that? anything at all?


- Nerfed Caldari NPC's without announcement(1)
- Changed plex spawn mechanics to favor original owner(2)
- Allowed you to stop plex despawning without deeming it exploit(3)

Those are something on top of my list.(4)


(1) IIRC the removal of EWAR in navy rats was announced long before it happened. Unless ofc you think of another event. Clarify?

(2) Clarify? How exactly was this done and how does it favor the original owner? Furthermore, if it benefits the original owner, you enjoy this benefit as well.

(3) If you reffer to the old exploits that let you stop the timer without beign there, this was done by pretty much everyone.

(4) Your list is sorely lacking in any meaningful content - show me the rest of it, and then perhaps answer my other questions or provide any proof of your accusations, as I've asked?
Bengal Bob
Slymsloot Enterprises
#55 - 2012-12-10 10:17:03 UTC
It is like Dan Carter Murray was cloned multiple times and moved to both caldari and gallente.
jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-12-10 11:00:05 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Yes, I would be afraid too if I were just another risk averse, inexperienced player with more "likes" than kills in a year.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=84744


Ummm.....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1474261
Mich Farmer
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-12-10 11:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mich Farmer
Antares 04 wrote:
(1) IIRC the removal of EWAR in navy rats was announced long before it happened. Unless ofc you think of another event. Clarify?


The fact they removed ewar from all caldari minor/med plexes and left only two rats capable of it to major plexes before nerfing any other races NPC (Damps stayed on pre-nerf levels the whole time and worked 100% of the time) and did not announce this.

I am sure Val Erian would be happy to link his forum post where he comfirms there is no caldari ewar in said plexes. I believe it was even briefly mentioned in one dev blog, months after the nerf, where they talked about FW plex npcs.

But being clueless about this shows you have no grasp of actual events occurring in FW.
Dztrgovac
#58 - 2012-12-10 11:17:19 UTC
Removing standing hit from attacking your own militia would only further support this behavior, they could do it forever with same characters since they to would no longer lose standings.

Also, removing faction standings hit would allow "true manly man" (read, most sperging of spergers) to go full pie on their own militia.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-12-10 17:00:29 UTC
Working as intended.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-10 17:30:20 UTC
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:
Zoe Panala wrote:
Yes, I would be afraid too if I were just another risk averse, inexperienced player with more "likes" than kills in a year.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=84744


Ummm.....

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1474261



I'm waiting on a response here junior.....