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Revenge Is Sweet

Author
Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-05 14:21:20 UTC
I've always hated that phrase. Anyone who has actually tasted revenge knows that it is savory, not sweet. But I digress!

The name is Quaid. Derek Quaid. I'm sure you literate folks can see that, though. I understand that almost all of you have been rubbed the wrong way at some point in your piloting career. Some of you have felt powerless, but CONCORD's new bounty rules promise to change all of that, right? You may not have great combat skills, but you have deep pockets, and you're more than willing to hang a steak around your enemies' necks and let the dogs chase them to the ends of the cluster. Good for you!

What do you do when your enemy has deeper pockets? Do you really want the bounty war to escalate beyond your means, thus leaving you on the losing end again? I can help. I anonymously place individual bounties on the people that have most seriously aggrieved you.

I cater to a niche market. I only place personal bounties. Personal grudges are so much more intimate, aren't they? I require a significantly higher minimum bounty than CONCORD. I'm interested in the serious vengeance business, not processing transactions for children who are simply playing with a new toy. I do it all for a flat fee (subject to change based on market conditions).

Most importantly, I'm going to be working hard to ensure that bounty hunters know who and where your target is. I want to bring together bounty hunters of all skill levels and pilots willing to subcontract locator services to them. Interested? Join our channel, Discreet Bounties, to view our target list and start building the community of bounty hunters to hunt down every last one of them and squeeze out every ISK.

Your enemy won't know what hit them. Best of all, they won't know who hit them. Your identity is my closest-guarded secret.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-05 14:49:06 UTC
Nice niche. I wish you all profit and a successful business model.

But I'll handle my own grudges, thanks.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-06 00:35:51 UTC
I don't have anyone I care enough about to place a bounty on, and if I did, I wouldn't be scared of them knowing that I have a problem with them.

That said, I'm happy to hunt bounties. I can also provide locator agents, depending on what's needed and how I'll be reimbursed.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-06 01:32:16 UTC
So, in the end, you favor the cowards to act even more cowardly. Excellent, just what the galaxy needed.

_________
Sepherim Catillah
Ex-Imperial Navy Officer

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-06 06:24:32 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I don't have anyone I care enough about to place a bounty on, and if I did, I wouldn't be scared of them knowing that I have a problem with them.

That said, I'm happy to hunt bounties. I can also provide locator agents, depending on what's needed and how I'll be reimbursed.

Mr. Ixiris, your enthusiasm for the hunt is admirable. The Discreet Bounties channel is a forum for bounty hunters to gather and coordinate hunts against any targets they please (I provide a list of bounties I've posted for my own clients). The bounties themselves and the excitement of the kill are the bounty hunters' reward. I also hope enterprising pilots will hang about and make their locator services available to bounty hunters at whatever price they negotiate. In this respect, I am an unpaid facilitator. I place the bounties for a fee, but I am trying to build a community for bounty hunters to collaborate out of my sheer love of seeing people get what's coming to them.

((Discreet Bounties channel is officially OOC to accommodate the largest possible community, but roleplayers are certainly welcome, and an explicitly in-character channel is an option if community demand is high enough.))

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#6 - 2012-12-06 09:38:44 UTC
It's always delightful to see entrepreneurs at work. I had considered expansion possibilities within the same niche, but I have to admit, I think that I prefer your business model.

I regret that I'm not too particularly invested in grudges with specific people, but rather larger entities. This goes give me an idea, though.

Moitte, Derek Quaid.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#7 - 2012-12-06 15:18:57 UTC
This whole discussion is quite sad. Vengeance is evidence of being wholly overcome by the basest and most primitive of human emotions. To yield to the desire to take vengeance is to yield to a compromise of one's soul to evil. Vengeance perpetuates violence! Instead, when someone hurts you, sate your hurting soul by helping ten people. Find out how much more healthy good is for your soul than evil. Holding a grudge will decay your insides and any satisfaction you may feel when you take your vengeance will be short lived. If you want a lasting satisfaction, do good to others. Seeking revenge is a poison. Revenge is neither sweet nor savory; it is bitter.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-06 15:23:45 UTC
Very nice sentiment, but helping those ten people won't stop the one person who hurt me from going on to hurt others. So in practice a well-placed bounty could prevent harm to an even larger number of people than would be affected by my ten acts of charity.

If I get it in my head that somebody deserves stomping flat, pilot, it's not out of base anger - it's out of the cold conviction that the universe will be a better place once I'm done.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#9 - 2012-12-06 15:39:42 UTC
Ston Momaki wrote:
This whole thing.


Whilst I respect your philanthropy, and I support the cause of helping your fellow man, it isn't a solution to a grudge. If you're helping mankind as an outlet for being personally hurt, your satisfaction may be enjoyed for a longer term, but only for as long as you are willing to lie to yourself.

Also - I can't help but think that the dulcet themes of your message are a little betrayed by the fact that ultimately, you're bumping the thread listing of an advertisement that will undoubtedly facilitate many mass-killings.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-12-06 17:36:05 UTC
This doesn't actually sound like a revenge.

More like a business opportunity of eliminating rivals without staining own reputation with 'dirty' work.

What I'd define as revenge, is causing harm to your victim, who MUST know why he deserved it and who brought it on him. The moment, you grasp him and stare into his eyes, and when you see in his eyes that he recognizes you. And then he realizes whole chain of events, how it all started, how it escalated, and what brought him here, and why he is in your hands now. And then he realizes that everything is lost. And now, when you get everything from him, you release him and watch him falling down into oblivion.

THIS would be a revenge.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#11 - 2012-12-06 19:49:30 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Very nice sentiment, but helping those ten people won't stop the one person who hurt me from going on to hurt others. So in practice a well-placed bounty could prevent harm to an even larger number of people than would be affected by my ten acts of charity.

If I get it in my head that somebody deserves stomping flat, pilot, it's not out of base anger - it's out of the cold conviction that the universe will be a better place once I'm done.


Perhaps we now have a discussion worth having. You raise the issue of defining the difference between vengeance and justice. Justice is a societal value that protects people from continued hurt. Criminal justice systems seek to punish and/or reform the offender in order to prevent repeat "hurting" of others. Vengeance is not justice. It does not have the controls nor the purpose of justice. The new bounty system appeals to vengeance, not justice. I see no value in it at all. The business model of the OP simply takes advantage of the continued desire for vengeance and does nothing to promote justice.

Justice requires societal consensus. Bounty placing and bounty hunting is mere individualistic violent grudge bearing. Especially among capsuleers, it has no redeeming value and will only generate a back and forth continued cycle of ongoing violence with no redeeming societal value.

In a better world, while I am helping the ten, law enforcement and the criminal justice system is taking care of justice so that I do not need to become a vigilante nor hire one.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2012-12-06 23:54:22 UTC
Mister Momaki, as a former Corporate Security professional I really do appreciate the need to allow Justice to be performed by trained professionals, operating from a dispassionate and unbiased base. The only problem with that solution is that it doesn't pertain to Capsuleers. Concord is not in the business of Justice, simply in deterring Capsuleers from inflicting too much awfulness on baseliner populations.

There is virtually no LAW that applies to capsuleers unless they choose to be bound by it.

These bounties are merely a form of self-regulation amongst capsuleer society and their effect upon your operations is simply a function of Concords rules allowing a Capsuleer to act to protect his property.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-12-07 02:34:39 UTC
Ston Momaki wrote:

Perhaps we now have a discussion worth having. You raise the issue of defining the difference between vengeance and justice. Justice is a societal value that protects people from continued hurt. Criminal justice systems seek to punish and/or reform the offender in order to prevent repeat "hurting" of others. Vengeance is not justice. It does not have the controls nor the purpose of justice. The new bounty system appeals to vengeance, not justice. I see no value in it at all. The business model of the OP simply takes advantage of the continued desire for vengeance and does nothing to promote justice.

Justice requires societal consensus. Bounty placing and bounty hunting is mere individualistic violent grudge bearing. Especially among capsuleers, it has no redeeming value and will only generate a back and forth continued cycle of ongoing violence with no redeeming societal value.

In a better world, while I am helping the ten, law enforcement and the criminal justice system is taking care of justice so that I do not need to become a vigilante nor hire one.

Your entire analysis boils down to the notion that executions authorized by a legal system's mechanisms are inherently legitimate, and executions by vigilantes are illegitimate. The bounty system meets your criteria for legitimacy. The legal system that governs capsuleers has effectively deputized every single one of us to engage in assessing damages via bounties and leaving others to collect those damages within a separate segment of the legal framework.

I fail to see your grievance here.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-12-08 10:28:40 UTC
I am delighted to report that the first kill has been scored against one of our clients' targets. Niccolo Machiavilli was successfully hunted down for a payout over 13 million ISK. His bounty remains above 50 million ISK, including a 10 million ISK bounty from our client.

I congratulate the bounty hunter on a fine kill and extend my heartfelt thanks for serving the needs of our clients, intentionally or not.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-02-06 18:04:38 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Your entire analysis boils down to the notion that executions authorized by a legal system's mechanisms are inherently legitimate, and executions by vigilantes are illegitimate. The bounty system meets your criteria for legitimacy. The legal system that governs capsuleers has effectively deputized every single one of us to engage in assessing damages via bounties and leaving others to collect those damages within a separate segment of the legal framework.

I fail to see your grievance here.


Close, but slightly off...

If your bouty hunters kill anyone in high-sec, then they are breaking the law (unless the target is also a wanted criminal)

I still prefer my " In ya god-damned face" approach to vengence, than your "They'll have no idea who stabbed them in the back" approach that you're selling.

Because Far-que... That's why.

Lasairiona
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-02-07 01:08:33 UTC
While I admire your endeavours, placing a bounty on a pregnant mother of 250mil for a customer is excessive, no?
Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-07 01:41:23 UTC
Lasairiona wrote:
While I admire your endeavours, placing a bounty on a pregnant mother of 250mil for a customer is excessive, no?

I don't give a moment's thought to the targets my clients select. I provide the service that I advertise, no questions asked.

Congratulations to you and the father on your expected bundle of joy. As no sane mother would do anything to put her child in harm's way, your concern is moot. I am sure you'll stay out of your pod until the child is born, so no one will have opportunity to collect the bounty until then.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Vectra Sharpe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-07 05:30:21 UTC
Excuse me, Mr. Quaid, but I feel where there is no due process, I feel there is also no real justice...

I-I've heard stories about people who have been placed under an excessively large bounty simply for not giving in the the whims of more rich and powerful capsuleers around them. So who will speak for the weaker among us, or those of us that don't wish to be violent, war mongering fools?

Um... I-It's just my opinion, but I believe endorsing wanton murder over personal vendettas is inexcusable. And I know, it doesn't seem like a big deal for a capsuleer to lose a few million isk and a large ship. For most of you, this is just an inconvenience, right? But please.... please... consider the baseliner crews and their families...

Thanks for your time.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-02-07 06:24:35 UTC
I think you are too kind with captain Quaid, captain Sharpe. A coward like him, fueling the needs and giving tools to other cowards, clearly cares little for the harm his actions can bring. He cares not for the lives of those he places the bounties on, nor their crew members, nor the reasons for the bounty, or anything else. I'd call him a mercenary, but he doesn't actually have the guts to do himself the jobs his coward patrons expect is done, so I'd just call him an empty, soul-less, merchant. A trader in the business of death, too.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Vectra Sharpe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-07 06:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vectra Sharpe
*Makes a polite bow*

T-thank you for your kind words, Mr. Sepherim, but we should try to avoid stooping to his level by instigating further arguments, I think.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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