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Eurogamer: CCP reveals master plan to make famously impenetrable MMO accessible

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#41 - 2012-12-05 17:26:32 UTC
Holy One wrote:

The explosion of popularity of the Chinese server which iirc is currently free to play says it all. People will come and play Eve and they will accept long waits to unlock content, but they won't pay a monthly sub for it. They quite rationally look at the skill queue that says '172 days' to X and say thats $60 **** that! Since Eve is so complex and can be so time consuming to grind isk in, that immediately alienates a lot of people who can't justify $15 month (what they probably pay for their mobile phone tariff) to just not play the game or be blown up by people who do ad nauseum until they can.

Sperging in rifters isnt what the marketing people are selling and it patently isnt what people want to buy.



TBH, I'm getting tired of it all after 3 years. I wanted to wait until my 4th year to do PvP, but that is unlikely to happen.

And it's not necessarily the game mechanics for me. It's the accompanying attitude that makes it not worthwhile.

I don't really ever hear any 'joy' about any activity at all. And crappy attitudes because idiots THINK they are anonymous. They think it means nothing because it is Space Pixels.

I'm beginning to believe that.

It ain't like there are no other games out there, so be careful what you guys wish for (you know who you are).

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#42 - 2012-12-05 17:28:23 UTC
Holy One wrote:

The explosion of popularity of the Chinese server which iirc is currently free to play says it all. People will come and play Eve and they will accept long waits to unlock content, but they won't pay a monthly sub for it. They quite rationally look at the skill queue that says '172 days' to X and say thats $60 **** that! Since Eve is so complex and can be so time consuming to grind isk in, that immediately alienates a lot of people who can't justify $15 month (what they probably pay for their mobile phone tariff) to just not play the game or be blown up by people who do ad nauseum until they can.

Sperging in rifters isnt what the marketing people are selling and it patently isnt what people want to buy.



The Chinese server has the same active population as Tranquility.

The Chinese server also has the benefit that it hasn't had essentially 10 years of trial and error in order to get to a stage where it can claim to have a 25,000 population as a "low point".

So what you're basically saying is:

The same amount of people play if the game is free then if they play for it.


Congratulations, I think you have just solved the one thing that was still puzzling businesses everywhere.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
John Nucleus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-12-05 17:31:05 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Elijah Craig wrote:
Interesting interview with Jon Lander on Eurogamer

I hope the launch of Retribution brings in new players whilst also making existing folks get more from the game.

Also, some stuff about the future of Eve:-

'Lander promised new features will be added to the game in 2013, but stopped short of revealing what they are. “Retribution is a great foundation for what I'm calling the second decade of Eve,” he said.

“We're putting a lot of planning into how we go about getting the right things to concentrate on through 2013 and beyond. But one thing is very clear: we need to make sure as well as doing these great big features we continue to look after the systems we already have. We cannot just ignore that side of things. But also we're making a real play for that simple to learn, hard to master.”

He added: “I want to try and reduce that barrier of entry to playing Eve. I don't ever want Eve to be nice and fluffy and it's a wonderful place to be. I think there's a place in the MMO world for a dark and dangerous, really good sci-fi world where you can be the goodie, the baddie, a criminal, the Good Samaritan. But it's very important we allow as many people as possible to get access to that game.

“So some of the things you'll see will be very much around accessibility for all players while keeping the depth of what the game is.

“But you're right, we will put in some really good big expansive things we've been looking at. We've done a lot of prototyping over the last year, but also we've got a backlog of things which could probably take us through another 20 years.

“There are some good things coming. We almost have too much choice, which is a great first world problem. As soon as we've prioritised what it is we want to do, we'll start communicating that out.”


This will be done under the tagline of "easily getting information to make hard choices". The gameplay of EVE won't be easier, but the UI will be better than a 90s cellphone.


+1

Smarting up the player base > Dumbing down the game
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-12-05 17:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Holy One wrote:
Thats all very well thought out, but the reality is the server pop is peaking at 40k and is down to 25 up to 37k and still climbing (since peak hour is still 3-4h away) the day after the expansion.

Fixed. By the way, did you know that patch days regularly have lower populations than other days since people take a while to get their systems updated, and since the server is usually a bit wonky from new bugs.

Quote:
Dress it up how you like - the issue/s preventing new players subscribing and sticking around are pretty apparent to anyone who starts a new character: it takes too long to be useful/unlock content and there is 'nothing to do' except wait for months and months to unlock content you are then really underwhelmed by.

That's not readily apparent — it's just something they get shoved down their throats and then assume is true. The only thing that takes time to “unlock” is capships, and again, that's probably a good thing. Everything else can be tested within a matter of days to see whether it's something you want to do or if it seems underwhelming.

Quote:
Sperging in rifters isnt what the marketing people are selling and it patently isnt what people want to buy.

You haven't been paying attention to what their head of marketing is saying, by the sound of things…

Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
The Chinese server has the same active population as Tranquility.

…if by “the same” you mean “25–35% less”.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2012-12-05 17:47:59 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Holy One wrote:

The explosion of popularity of the Chinese server which iirc is currently free to play says it all. People will come and play Eve and they will accept long waits to unlock content, but they won't pay a monthly sub for it. They quite rationally look at the skill queue that says '172 days' to X and say thats $60 **** that! Since Eve is so complex and can be so time consuming to grind isk in, that immediately alienates a lot of people who can't justify $15 month (what they probably pay for their mobile phone tariff) to just not play the game or be blown up by people who do ad nauseum until they can.

Sperging in rifters isnt what the marketing people are selling and it patently isnt what people want to buy.



The Chinese server has the same active population as Tranquility.

The Chinese server also has the benefit that it hasn't had essentially 10 years of trial and error in order to get to a stage where it can claim to have a 25,000 population as a "low point".

So what you're basically saying is:

The same amount of people play if the game is free then if they play for it.


Congratulations, I think you have just solved the one thing that was still puzzling businesses everywhere.



I do not know where you get your figures for Serenity population, but I get them from reliable sources:

http://eve-offline.net/

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Holy One
Privat Party
#46 - 2012-12-05 17:51:27 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Holy One wrote:

The explosion of popularity of the Chinese server which iirc is currently free to play says it all. People will come and play Eve and they will accept long waits to unlock content, but they won't pay a monthly sub for it. They quite rationally look at the skill queue that says '172 days' to X and say thats $60 **** that! Since Eve is so complex and can be so time consuming to grind isk in, that immediately alienates a lot of people who can't justify $15 month (what they probably pay for their mobile phone tariff) to just not play the game or be blown up by people who do ad nauseum until they can.

Sperging in rifters isnt what the marketing people are selling and it patently isnt what people want to buy.



The Chinese server has the same active population as Tranquility.

The Chinese server also has the benefit that it hasn't had essentially 10 years of trial and error in order to get to a stage where it can claim to have a 25,000 population as a "low point".

So what you're basically saying is:

The same amount of people play if the game is free then if they play for it.


Congratulations, I think you have just solved the one thing that was still puzzling businesses everywhere.



I do not know where you get your figures for Serenity population, but I get them from reliable sources:

http://eve-offline.net/


Its 1:50 AM in Beijing.

:)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#47 - 2012-12-05 17:59:35 UTC
Look again in 12 hours. No difference and nowhere near the numbers of tQ. EVER.

They have obviously never even cracked 30,000.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=serenity

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2012-12-05 18:02:02 UTC
Holy One wrote:
Its 1:50 AM in Beijing.
Yes. And what time was it here when you picked that point when the two server populations were equal? 4AM?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#49 - 2012-12-05 18:04:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Holy One wrote:
Its 1:50 AM in Beijing.
Yes. And what time was it here when you picked that point when the two server populations were equal? 4AM?



Just for your support in this, you can have some of the credibility back.

Dude is just poasting something just to be poasting something apparently.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-05 18:10:19 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Look again in 12 hours. No difference and nowhere near the numbers of tQ. EVER.

They have obviously never even cracked 30,000.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=serenity


Guys, why do you even care about the China server?

First, realize that Chinese population is much larger than the population of North America and Eastern Europe put together. If their server has as many or more players, perhaps it's because they have as many or more people?

Plus, how many people do you know who would play EVE, or at least log in to refresh the queue, and perhaps mess around with random stuff, if it was totally free? I know at least one guy. He doesn't feel it's worth $15/mo in entertainment value, but for free, I bet he'd do it. Can't compare a F2P game to a P2P game.



Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#51 - 2012-12-05 18:16:15 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Look again in 12 hours. No difference and nowhere near the numbers of tQ. EVER.

They have obviously never even cracked 30,000.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=serenity


Guys, why do you even care about the China server?

First, realize that Chinese population is much larger than the population of North America and Eastern Europe put together. If their server has as many or more players, perhaps it's because they have as many or more people?

Plus, how many people do you know who would play EVE, or at least log in to refresh the queue, and perhaps mess around with random stuff, if it was totally free? I know at least one guy. He doesn't feel it's worth $15/mo in entertainment value, but for free, I bet he'd do it. Can't compare a F2P game to a P2P game.






I don't give a whit about the Chinese Server. I care about people posting obvious lies.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-12-05 18:26:10 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Gosh, so many words, and literally zero substance. All it does is hinting that amazing stuff, which they haven't decided on yet, but which will be amazing, may or may not be coming in 2013. Might as well have said "Coming Soon!" and left it at that.

And PS: Until they get rid of the skill training system, so that it takes a newbie 6 months to get core skills, the game will remain inaccessible. The only thing they can do is for those 6 months give a newbie something else to do that is fun and non-ship-related, which is where WiS comes in.



Hit the nail on the head here. +1 Here is a simple experiment you can do with your friends who play other online games. All you have to do is ask them "Have you heard of eveonline?". Here is the 2 most common responses I hear:

1. Yeah it just takes too much time commitment before it becomes fun (literally just heard that yesterday from two IT students at Nova University),

2. Yeah but all you do is fly around in a spaceship I would rather play (fill in any generic MMO).


And my response to them is usually good if you are too lazy to work hard at a game to have fun then you shouldnt play EVE.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-05 18:28:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Holy One wrote:
The problem isn't the game has no appeal, its that once you start asking people to pay 120e before they can really play it (a year or so of subs and skill training) it loses that appeal.
Well, the solution to that problem is to report people who spread that kind of nonsense as newbie griefers.

EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".

If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.



Then go ahead and report me *****.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-12-05 18:39:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
At around this stage they should be looking for a corp that's focused on their interests and getting ready to really engage with the "multiplayer" facet of EVE.


Seriously that is freaking funny. This game has some of the most evil, corrupt, back stabbing ruthless people in the world playing it (God I love it) and you expect it too draw in new players really? All I can think about is "Thank you sir may I have another".

And a new players is going to drop another sub for the goons something forums + stick around after the fiurst corp who recruited that newb kicks him from the corp and locks all his crap in a station in null yeah this game is really new player friendly LOL.


I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-12-05 18:44:11 UTC
Aditu Riraille wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Tippia wrote:

EVE can be played "for real" from day 1. It takes maybe a month worth of skill training before you get a good assortment of tools and skills to build on for some more specialised tasks. The only problem is that the NPC corp chats -- the newbie schools and the newbie chat in particular -- are full of, if you'll pardon my french, connards who fill the poor newbies' heads with idiotic brainvomit such as "train everything to V" or "you can't PvP before 15M SP" or "get a battleship ASAP".

If those 'tards could get a few more punches in their gentleman/lady areas until they shut up, the appeal would become far more readily apparent.


Please explain to me how a day old newbie who can barely fit guns, navigate the UI, set up an overview properly, etc can be "useful" or get anything meaningful out of the game. As bad as the guys who say it takes a year to get the needed skills to play the game people like you and Malcanis need to stop spreading the opposite line of "instant usefulness".

Maybe a day or week old can be useful as cannon fodder/meat shield for your 0.0 blobs but, not for much else as far as anything fun for the newbie is concerned.


Nick:
How nice of you to decide what is or is not considered "fun" for me or any other new player. 16 days, that's all the time I have in EVE, yet I just purchased a blueprint of the new Venture ore frigate last night, gathered minerals either myself, through scrapping modules I didn't need , or in the case of really rare stuff, I bought it. Made my own Venture in the space of 3-4 hours. All I had to do was sell one PLEX for approximately $570M ISK to give me some flexibility starting off. I haven't made use of EVEMON for planning yet, but I can fly frigates and destroyers- that's all I need right now.

What I did do was read plenty of guides and wiki entries, although I need to institute the use of some of them (safespots, tactical map stuff, GridFu) more often. I have the EON survival kit coming, and look forward to discovering a lot more about EVE.

I have not travelled to ZeroSec space yet, as the time and resources involved in making such a trip successful are... difficult at best for me. I travel to LoSec here and there; got my ass handed to me when I got cocky and pushed my welcome too far. But, hey, it's all been a great lesson for me. I am even dabbling in the market now, trying to get a feel for the way things work. Mostly it will take time, but that doesn't mean I am not having fun while getting up to speed. Quite the contrary.



Well you are either an alt or you have picked up the forums rather fast but when you learn that all you are is target practice the first year you play and then quit can I have your stuff?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#56 - 2012-12-05 18:45:48 UTC
RomeStar wrote:



I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.



Funny is it not how we get banned and goons rarely do.

Happened to me twice so far.......

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2012-12-05 18:49:39 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
At around this stage they should be looking for a corp that's focused on their interests and getting ready to really engage with the "multiplayer" facet of EVE.


Seriously that is freaking funny. This game has some of the most evil, corrupt, back stabbing ruthless people in the world playing it (God I love it) and you expect it too draw in new players really? All I can think about is "Thank you sir may I have another".

And a new players is going to drop another sub for the goons something forums + stick around after the fiurst corp who recruited that newb kicks him from the corp and locks all his crap in a station in null yeah this game is really new player friendly LOL.


I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.



I must be doing something horribly wrong because all the corps I've been in were composed of people who pretty much looked out for each other.

Some more competently than others, but eh.

So. What have I been doing wrong these last 6 years?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#58 - 2012-12-05 18:50:34 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
RomeStar wrote:



I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.



Funny is it not how we get banned and goons rarely do.

Happened to me twice so far.......



Maybe it's because you get mad when publically available facts show that you're talking nonsense and break the forum's rules?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#59 - 2012-12-05 18:52:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
RomeStar wrote:



I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.



Funny is it not how we get banned and goons rarely do.

Happened to me twice so far.......



Maybe it's because you get mad when publically available facts show that you're talking nonsense and break the forum's rules?



Actually it was 'cleaning up the Forums' on the part of CCP after last April's Fiasco.

I got swept up in a week of Zero Tolerance.

And if 'talking nonsense' was the reason, there should be absolutely nobody in here.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-05 18:52:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
RomeStar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
At around this stage they should be looking for a corp that's focused on their interests and getting ready to really engage with the "multiplayer" facet of EVE.


Seriously that is freaking funny. This game has some of the most evil, corrupt, back stabbing ruthless people in the world playing it (God I love it) and you expect it too draw in new players really? All I can think about is "Thank you sir may I have another".

And a new players is going to drop another sub for the goons something forums + stick around after the fiurst corp who recruited that newb kicks him from the corp and locks all his crap in a station in null yeah this game is really new player friendly LOL.


I would tell you where to stick your goon talking points but then I would be banned again.



I must be doing something horribly wrong because all the corps I've been in were composed of people who pretty much looked out for each other.

Some more competently than others, but eh.

So. What have I been doing wrong these last 6 years?



Do you guys also sing kumbai while laying on your pillowpets in the Carebear Island Adventure Corp?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom