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Warfare & Tactics

 
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In FW off grid boosting should be removed.

Author
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#81 - 2013-01-25 04:00:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
if FW is ment for learning to pvp then you have to allow links too so people learn what those do when someone uses those.

Make people ahve to use them on grid so people also learn how to choose target correctly.


I trained and started to use a boost module on grid but now CCP are taking the utility slot away from T1 BC's.

So now they will all be offgrid. Opposite of what everyone wants.

CCP say one thing but do another.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#82 - 2013-01-25 05:11:52 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
that is not FW problem, it is problem on whole EVE so this thread is useless.


Not really, it still serves its purpose.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#83 - 2013-01-25 07:42:02 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
that is not FW problem, it is problem on whole EVE so this thread is useless.


Not really, it still serves its purpose.

-Liang


no, it does not serve anything, it is just one more thread about this issue and it is on wrong forum section so ccp could just lock this now.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#84 - 2013-01-25 08:10:58 UTC
I can't wait to see all the solo kills these pilots complaining about boosts are going to get post patch, because all the people using boosts are bad at the game.

If you care that much you should have bought one on the character bazaar or trained one 2 years ago after the first awful kiddy beat you with boosts because they gave him such an advantage. Most people who have boosts probably went through the following process at one point. (I did as well, although I sold mine some time ago)

1. Killed by someone using boosts which was perceived to give them a big advantage (probably true)
2. 'If I had that we could fight on equal grounds'
3. a) Start training alt for Boosting or
3. b) Log into Character bazaar and purchase booster alt.
4. Not get butthurt

Yes the fix will be good, but I'm afraid at the end of the day if you are bad at eve now you probably will still be bad at eve after a nerf, just you'll be complaining about something else.


Example

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15636766

DCM complains about a 1v1 loss because of loki links, while warping a failfit destroyer into a plex to engage a firetail at 0.

I don't need boosts to scram at 1km, I don't need boosts to TD and orbit at 500 on a ship with NO range or transversal dictation what so ever. I don't need boosts to kill a ship with no tank what so ever in a brawl.

Its OK to be terrible at Eve, it's not OK to blame 1 specific mechanic and then refuse to even try it yourself.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#85 - 2013-01-25 08:19:53 UTC
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:

I don't need boosts to scram at 1km, I don't need boosts to TD and orbit at 500 on a ship with NO range or transversal dictation what so ever. I don't need boosts to kill a ship with no tank what so ever in a brawl.

Try that fight again, without reducing your sig radius by an enormous amount, or increasing your AB speed by an enormous amount. You may notice you have to do more than push F1-F4 and orbit 500 to win.

DCM may have fail fit and been bad at Eve, but I don't think you can brag about "skill" when your piloting was basic enough a newbie straight out of the SoE arc could do it.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#86 - 2013-01-25 09:31:25 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

DCM may have fail fit and been bad at Eve, but I don't think you can brag about "skill" when your piloting was basic enough a newbie straight out of the SoE arc could do it.


Um. Were you trying to paraphrase his post or was that an accident?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#87 - 2013-01-25 09:34:07 UTC
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15636766

THIS ONE!!!
Wouldn´t usally happen without boosts.
Why? Because the coercer melts you before you are close enough.
But with boosts you were so fast that you got under his guns before you melted. Probably some 6k m/s???
Simple.
So don´t tell me sh....

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#88 - 2013-01-25 09:54:26 UTC
If the Firetail is AB fit with a TD and sitting on the warp in of the plex the Coercer is going to have a bad day, boosts or not.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#89 - 2013-01-25 11:18:48 UTC
Feffri wrote:
I personally don't mind off grid boosting i think it allows the small corps to have boosts, and allows them to be on an equal playing field. Before ogb'n smaller corps like mine couldn't afford damnations and claymores so we were at a disadvantage but we can afford ogbers because of the small amount you loose them. I would say a better nerf would be to make it so when say a loki turns on its skirmish links that even with ladar mods it would be as easy to scan down as a battleship.


I forget the name of the player who pointed this out, and I forget exactly how the quote goes, but something about:

"Any mechanic designed to benefit newbies will just end up benefiting veterans much more."

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#90 - 2013-01-25 11:47:09 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Feffri wrote:
I personally don't mind off grid boosting i think it allows the small corps to have boosts, and allows them to be on an equal playing field. Before ogb'n smaller corps like mine couldn't afford damnations and claymores so we were at a disadvantage but we can afford ogbers because of the small amount you loose them. I would say a better nerf would be to make it so when say a loki turns on its skirmish links that even with ladar mods it would be as easy to scan down as a battleship.


I forget the name of the player who pointed this out, and I forget exactly how the quote goes, but something about:

"Any mechanic designed to benefit newbies will just end up benefiting veterans much more."


Listen players and ruin the game, just like CCP did with FW, when they had to emergency fix FW after they 1st generated game braking isk factory by listening all fine ideas players have..
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#91 - 2013-01-25 14:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Liang Nuren wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

DCM may have fail fit and been bad at Eve, but I don't think you can brag about "skill" when your piloting was basic enough a newbie straight out of the SoE arc could do it.


Um. Were you trying to paraphrase his post or was that an accident?

-Liang



Thank you, yes I don't claim to be a good solo PVPer my point was exactly that it required no skill for me to engage a fit like that when the fight started at 0, yet still people use boosts as an excuse, when evidently anyone who was fresh out of SoE arc could have done the same, boosts or otherwise.


Edit: if anyone disputes the numbers the firetail has a 2X tracking advantage over a coercer in this case, before the TD is even activated, with TD it is 3X, Without boosts. I probably had x-instinct in the cargo as well, although I doubt I would have used it in this case which would have improved that even further.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#92 - 2013-01-25 16:22:31 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
If the Firetail is AB fit with a TD and sitting on the warp in of the plex the Coercer is going to have a bad day, boosts or not.



You might be right, but

1) Just because in a single fight didn't make much difference doesn't really prove much.

2) You can fit a coercer to help deal with smaller ships that try to outtrack you. (Drop, tracking mods, smaller guns etc) Hence you might get some good fights. But when you assume that the smaller ships have boosts you shouldnt even fight. Your only option is to run.

The long range boosted ships have way too much slack when they can orbit anywhere from 13-30km and have more speed and agility. If you try to fit for them then the in close stuff will leave you with your pants down.

Bottom line is unless you have an alt booster yourself your just handing out stupidly easy kills.

Face it there are no more good fits unless you have a booster alt too.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#93 - 2013-01-25 16:26:18 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197430&find=unread

Will be removed as soon as it can be done without breaking the server.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Mystical Might
Eclipse Pulsar
Fraternity.
#94 - 2013-01-25 17:39:20 UTC
Look, While OGBing, and links in general may be problematic for the solo pilots of FW, why don't you do something about it?

I, myself, have killed around 7-8 boosting ships, including lokis and command ships, in the last 5 days. It's pretty simple to do, doesn't take much time to engineer, and costs your opponent both isk and time (they may even send a few tears your way). Either way, It sends a message home if you kill their boosters enough.

Then they become risk averse, hiding and/or docking every time you enter local.
No more problem... for the most part.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-01-25 18:12:29 UTC
SAJUK NIGARRA wrote:
Wah wah wah, I cba to train or buy another char, I cba to grind isk to pay more subs, I don't want to put effort in to dualboxing, but I want equal chances. Cry me a river. Eve rewards time and effort put in. (allthough that's slowly going to the shitter).

Also, confirming quoting from Trinkets is the best way to get your point across. By the way, I've seen this great piece of investigative journalism on FOX News ...


Oh, also, requesting special pvp mechanics for FW is ... well, let's just say it should be a picture of you in the dictionary next to special flowsnake.


Botters use that same logic. They grind up that isk and put effort into botting, why shouldn't they be safe while in high-sec? If you want to compete with botters, then you should bot, see, perfectly fair.
Ginger Barbarella
#96 - 2013-01-25 18:50:19 UTC
As long as we're talking specific mods to FW again, I think code should be added to the pile that PREVENTS non-FW pilots from entering plexes. Not in FW? You can't enter the plex. Even more stupid than gate camping is the neutral idiots who camp the warp-in in plexes. Get a life already...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#97 - 2013-01-25 19:16:39 UTC
Get ******, that accounts for a good 10 kills a day for me...

Ginger Barbarella wrote:
As long as we're talking specific mods to FW again, I think code should be added to the pile that PREVENTS non-FW pilots from entering plexes. Not in FW? You can't enter the plex. Even more stupid than gate camping is the neutral idiots who camp the warp-in in plexes. Get a life already...

nom nom

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#98 - 2013-01-25 19:19:35 UTC
Mystical Might wrote:
Look, While OGBing, and links in general may be problematic for the solo pilots of FW, why don't you do something about it?

I, myself, have killed around 7-8 boosting ships, including lokis and command ships, in the last 5 days. It's pretty simple to do, doesn't take much time to engineer, and costs your opponent both isk and time (they may even send a few tears your way). Either way, It sends a message home if you kill their boosters enough.

Then they become risk averse, hiding and/or docking every time you enter local.
No more problem... for the most part.


THIS!
HTFU
We have killed dozens of these, even some friendly on accident Shocked
There is a counter to everything in Eve. Besides, prison raping some **** with boosts when you have none is oh so sweet.

nom nom

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#99 - 2013-01-25 20:57:19 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Mystical Might wrote:
Look, While OGBing, and links in general may be problematic for the solo pilots of FW, why don't you do something about it?

I, myself, have killed around 7-8 boosting ships, including lokis and command ships, in the last 5 days. It's pretty simple to do, doesn't take much time to engineer, and costs your opponent both isk and time (they may even send a few tears your way). Either way, It sends a message home if you kill their boosters enough.

Then they become risk averse, hiding and/or docking every time you enter local.
No more problem... for the most part.


THIS!
HTFU
We have killed dozens of these, even some friendly on accident Shocked
There is a counter to everything in Eve. Besides, prison raping some **** with boosts when you have none is oh so sweet.



One thing I have noticed in the majority of 'OMG NERF OGB's!" threads is the lack of willingness to actually try and engage the boosting alt.
This lack of willingness stems from two reason that I have experienced
1. Lack of ability to fly ships that can gank the alt on gates etc.
2. Lack of ability/desire to form a fleet to remove that annoying small pos in system that holds the boosting toon.

Now some of this is down to size/experience of people's corps/factions/alliances or whatever but I also think it may have a lot to do with a big amount of apathy among players who have just accepted boosts as a 'norm' in eve.
We need more people who are willing to try and disrupt the OGB'ing toon whever they may be. After all if the booster is on station and you force them to dock up then boosts are no longer applied. Same if you force them to jump to adjacent systems.
The hardest to combat is POS boosting toons. Well if a system is important enough to fight over then remove the pos. Easy said but alot harder to get done given the apathy that has seemingly set in with the average pvp'er (FW pvp'ers in particular)


If we start smashing boosting alts at every opportunity it make them much less attractive. And once we smash the booster if you turn off/dock up/jump out your own boosting toons you also show that you are willing to engage unboosted so you engender a mentality that boosts are not 'required' or 'necessary' and people will leave them out more often.

There is nothing in eve to stop us changing peoples perceptions and thought patterns....it is after all a sandbox and way too many people are letting other players dictate how they play it.


Hmmm I might have found a new hobby.... Twisted......How successful I'll be however is up for debate but it'll be fun along the way.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#100 - 2013-01-25 21:58:21 UTC
Mystical Might wrote:
Look, While OGBing, and links in general may be problematic for the solo pilots of FW, why don't you do something about it?

I, myself, have killed around 7-8 boosting ships, including lokis and command ships, in the last 5 days. It's pretty simple to do, doesn't take much time to engineer, and costs your opponent both isk and time (they may even send a few tears your way). Either way, It sends a message home if you kill their boosters enough.

Then they become risk averse, hiding and/or docking every time you enter local.
No more problem... for the most part.


I agree with this. But honestly just thinking about ******* around with the scan probes for a few hours makes my neck hurt. I hate the scan probe mechanics. I do wish others would do this though.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815