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New dev blog: A letter to the followers of EVE

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Righteous Deeds
Diverse Endeavors
#681 - 2011-10-08 19:05:53 UTC
A solid Mea Culpa is good for the soul, good for the team, and good for business. Reasonable explanation of the direction he wants to go as well.

Only one word of caution, as you push towards this alleged requirement to providing a second life by avatars, try to remember this was never what attracted your current players, so make sure you give folks an option to bypass that aspect of the game so we can focus on the technical depth that really makes Eve different from the rest of the field. I get the reason for building towards an avatar-based aspect of the game, but a lot of us do not want to slow down what is currently Eve by mucking around with a graphical universe we couldn't care less about. Build your avatars, attract your new subscibers that care about eye-candy and virtual life on the internetz, but please don't force us all to use them. If you can manage that, no one can complain.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#682 - 2011-10-08 20:33:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Quote:


You may want to put on your reading comprehension cap, as nowhere in my post did I say that CCP is not allowed to change their business model and as you've clearly not caught anywhere near up to speed on the sh!tstorm.

The point ypu continually ignore is that in addition to having never said that CCP is not allowed to change their business model, I (and many others, as evident in the sh!tstorm created by Hillmar's leaked letter) was in agreement with the current business model of subscription (and plex sale) based income. This business model was also backed up with CCP's official stance that no one will be able to pay to win in eve no matter what. Then the leaked letter confirmed a suspicion that this was not the case, that CCP can, will, and always have considered using a pay to win business model (which, again, because you keep ignoring it, no one is saying that they do not have a right to do) which was a community 'call to arms' for if CCP has been lying to "The followers of Eve" about this, what is the point of believin anything they say, despite the fact that CCP has prided themselves as being one of the few companies that are most in touch with they're playerbase.

The other point that you're ignoring is that the creation the NEX store to begin with is the vehicle which a pay to win business model will be deliered by, the other reason for the massive sh!tstorm.

Even in Hillmar's apology blog (as I've quoted) there is a clear affirmation that even after all of Hillmar's/Zulu's/CCP's apologizing,they still retain the right to completely ignore years of customer trust, and official policy (again, because you want to read otherwise, they have every right to do this, no one is saying otherwise).

So, because it hasn't happened yet is not the issue that has/is causing the sh!tstorm and mass exodus of lon term subscribers, it is because they are saying that it can happen to begin with, and have already laid the foundation for it to happen that invalidates everythin else they say, especially this 'apology.'


I think I understand now...

Demand perfection according to Wylee Coyote, Super Genius, at every turn.
Anything else is fundamentally flawed and doomed to fail.
Always and Forever. Jawohl

I've had more productive exchanges with my car.


Would you be so kind as to show everyone exactly where I demanded (or even referenced) "Perfection" and/or alluded to anything other than "Perfection" being "Fundamentaly flawed and doomed to fail?"
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#683 - 2011-10-08 21:25:14 UTC
@Wylee Coyote:

But you don't need my help. You're already so good at it. Keep up the good work!! :thumbsup:

So it goes.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#684 - 2011-10-08 21:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
@Wylee Coyote:

But you don't need my help. You're already so good at it. Keep up the good work!! :thumbsup:


Enjoy your exchanges with inanimate objects, hopefully someday you'll be able to properly exchange with humans.Blink
OSGOD
Siren's calll
#685 - 2011-10-09 03:38:34 UTC
Tranquility is currently down due to storage hardware issues. It is expected to be returned to service by 15:10 UTC. We will be updating with any new information as soon as possible.

do i get reimbursed for time lost becuase yuo all spend so much time on dust and the rest od the **** the eve is now turning into a rotting corpse becuase of 1 ******* leading the company down a hole
Vedrit
Pirates of the Caribbean.
#686 - 2011-10-09 03:42:39 UTC
woa, OSGOD, just becuase CCP wants to alienate a lot of players by catering to a half-a55ed console and making a sweet game for it, no need to be throwing rude names around.

Dont get me wrong, I too want compensation for it (If my ISP drops service unexpectedly for an extended amount of time, I'd be on them like a whip on a slave)
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#687 - 2011-10-09 04:10:58 UTC
First, I believe this is the course correction I have been waiting to see. CCP Hellmar gets bonus points for having confidence enough to apologize in this manner, and further more, make good on it. Honestly, I haven't logged in for days because :effort: and just got a PS3.

I'll be watching to see if the actions match the words. If the goings-on on SiSi are any indication, things are looking up.

Second,

Zilero wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
Visual self-expression in a virtual setting is a core psychological component of gaming; most people need to see their avatars, or something vaguely humanoid, or else they don’t connect with the game.


Wait? What? NO! I don't care about my avatar, I want the idiot pictures turned off again like in the old days where I had to click a portrait to view his/her face. This insane focus on the visual experience will be your down fall!

What I want is the game to run smoothly on current hardware, by that I mean current, not some ******** bleeding edge expensive vacuum making an insane amount of noise toaster oven that cost me USD 3000.

CCP has failed again and again in delivering ANY kind of graphics performance - and why the hell are ATI lagging so far behind in performance its almost a crime?

This alone should be enough to focus on getting the core stuff working before launching new ******** graphics intensive stuff - and then I have not even begun talking about the myriad of bugs that plagues Eve like we were part of the dark ages.

Seriously, fix stuff, that's all the players ask for, not this utter crap you deliver.

-zil


Your performance sucks because, dude, you got a Dell, or some other Walmart special. My $1200 custom rig has a ATI Radeon HD4890, 4GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Phenom II quad-core 965 proc on an ASUS M4A89 mobo. It runs all aspects of Eve at highest settings with no effort. CQ looks great. Giant fleet battles work as intended until about 400 folks are on grid. Then hey, zoom out and reduce settings.

Next time you are looking for a computer, get one custom built with components that complement each other, rather than a pre-assembled mishmash of the latest lowest bidder chinese sweatshop fail.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#688 - 2011-10-09 05:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nandy Cocytus
Soldarius wrote:
First, I believe this is the course correction I have been waiting to see. CCP Hellmar gets bonus points for having confidence enough to apologize in this manner, and further more, make good on it. Honestly, I haven't logged in for days because :effort: and just got a PS3.

I'll be watching to see if the actions match the words. If the goings-on on SiSi are any indication, things are looking up.

Second,

Zilero wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
Visual self-expression in a virtual setting is a core psychological component of gaming; most people need to see their avatars, or something vaguely humanoid, or else they don’t connect with the game.


Wait? What? NO! I don't care about my avatar, I want the idiot pictures turned off again like in the old days where I had to click a portrait to view his/her face. This insane focus on the visual experience will be your down fall!

What I want is the game to run smoothly on current hardware, by that I mean current, not some ******** bleeding edge expensive vacuum making an insane amount of noise toaster oven that cost me USD 3000.

CCP has failed again and again in delivering ANY kind of graphics performance - and why the hell are ATI lagging so far behind in performance its almost a crime?

This alone should be enough to focus on getting the core stuff working before launching new ******** graphics intensive stuff - and then I have not even begun talking about the myriad of bugs that plagues Eve like we were part of the dark ages.

Seriously, fix stuff, that's all the players ask for, not this utter crap you deliver.

-zil


Let me help you: if software is graphics intensive, but you are not seeing performance, it is a problem with your hardware. The software is in no way the problem. Also, bleeding edge technology is current hardware because, you know, it currently exists, and everything. And, people may start taking you a bit more seriously if you tone down the hyperbole just a smidgen. Comparing internet spaceships to playing dice in the Dark Ages is just stupid.

My custom system is as follows: Asus EVO MOBO, SLI-ed dual GeForce GTX 560 ti 2GB, Phenom II 1100T hexcore, 8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz. My computer laughs at EVE's highest settings. LAUGHS FROM ITS MOUNTAIN. It did not cost $3000, rather, half that, which is a darned good deal. And I have 7 fans, including the GPU fans; I don't hear a thing. It's called a magnetic cushion.

Soldarius wrote:


Your performance sucks because, dude, you got a Dell, or some other Walmart special. My $1200 custom rig has a ATI Radeon HD4890, 4GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Phenom II quad-core 965 proc on an ASUS M4A89 mobo. It runs all aspects of Eve at highest settings with no effort. CQ looks great. Giant fleet battles work as intended until about 400 folks are on grid. Then hey, zoom out and reduce settings.

Next time you are looking for a computer, get one custom built with components that complement each other, rather than a pre-assembled mishmash of the latest lowest bidder chinese sweatshop fail.


Like another 1.5 million times.

So it goes.
Grojar Flesp
SQS Group
#689 - 2011-10-09 08:33:00 UTC
Helmar a.o.,

Good stuff, hope you will continue this course and keep listening to us, not too much because some of us are idiots Lol.

Don't let go of the USP's of EVE, keeping your customers and building from that is easier than to attract new customers and losing the old ones. Repeat customer is usually better than new customer, if I remember my business economics correctly.

Hope to hear more from you soon.

Grojar Flesp
OSGOD
Siren's calll
#690 - 2011-10-09 13:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: OSGOD
Vedrit wrote:
woa, OSGOD, just becuase CCP wants to alienate a lot of players by catering to a half-a55ed console and making a sweet game for it, no need to be throwing rude names around.

Dont get me wrong, I too want compensation for it (If my ISP drops service unexpectedly for an extended amount of time, I'd be on them like a whip on a slave)



i am paying customer until these gaming companies are brought into line and legislation is made bye governments forces them to treat paying customers with the respect we desrve ill say what ever the **** i want about these lying cockheads,

i remember when to log onto sisi all you had to do was drop the menu on log on screen, how hard was it, now days after this **** hilmar makes a b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t statement eve is crashing and crashing amd crashing well done hilam very good customer care you lying a-s-s-h-o--le .

if eve wasnt the game it is or could be i would have been long gone ,but CCP keeps pushing us out the door ,.il just wait till till they go under buy the company sell of everything not eve related, employ humans instead of primates and start it up again with out the current greed mongers at the helm, LONG LIVE EVE
OSGOD
Siren's calll
#691 - 2011-10-09 14:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: OSGOD
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
First, I believe this is the course correction I have been waiting to see. CCP Hellmar gets bonus points for having confidence enough to apologize in this manner, and further more, make good on it. Honestly, I haven't logged in for days because :effort: and just got a PS3.

I'll be watching to see if the actions match the words. If the goings-on on SiSi are any indication, things are looking up.

Second,

Zilero wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
Visual self-expression in a virtual setting is a core psychological component of gaming; most people need to see their avatars, or something vaguely humanoid, or else they don’t connect with the game.


Wait? What? NO! I don't care about my avatar, I want the idiot pictures turned off again like in the old days where I had to click a portrait to view his/her face. This insane focus on the visual experience will be your down fall!

What I want is the game to run smoothly on current hardware, by that I mean current, not some ******** bleeding edge expensive vacuum making an insane amount of noise toaster oven that cost me USD 3000.

CCP has failed again and again in delivering ANY kind of graphics performance - and why the hell are ATI lagging so far behind in performance its almost a crime?

This alone should be enough to focus on getting the core stuff working before launching new ******** graphics intensive stuff - and then I have not even begun talking about the myriad of bugs that plagues Eve like we were part of the dark ages.

Seriously, fix stuff, that's all the players ask for, not this utter crap you deliver.

-zil


Let me help you: if software is graphics intensive, but you are not seeing performance, it is a problem with your hardware. The software is in no way the problem. Also, bleeding edge technology is current hardware because, you know, it currently exists, and everything. And, people may start taking you a bit more seriously if you tone down the hyperbole just a smidgen. Comparing internet spaceships to playing dice in the Dark Ages is just stupid.

My custom system is as follows: Asus EVO MOBO, SLI-ed dual GeForce GTX 560 ti 2GB, Phenom II 1100T hexcore, 8 GB DDR3 1600 MHz. My computer laughs at EVE's highest settings. LAUGHS FROM ITS MOUNTAIN. It did not cost $3000, rather, half that, which is a darned good deal. And I have 7 fans, including the GPU fans; I don't hear a thing. It's called a magnetic cushion.

Soldarius wrote:


Your performance sucks because, dude, you got a Dell, or some other Walmart special. My $1200 custom rig has a ATI Radeon HD4890, 4GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Phenom II quad-core 965 proc on an ASUS M4A89 mobo. It runs all aspects of Eve at highest settings with no effort. CQ looks great. Giant fleet battles work as intended until about 400 folks are on grid. Then hey, zoom out and reduce settings.

Next time you are looking for a computer, get one custom built with components that complement each other, rather than a pre-assembled mishmash of the latest lowest bidder chinese sweatshop fail.


Like another 1.5 million times.



my machine is antec based case with 1200 watt PSU

eaton UPS

AMD Phenom 2 x6 3.20 Ghz
8 gig corsair ram love corsair
corsair watercooling unit
2 x ati radeon 5980 2 gig 5GDDR running in Xcrossfire mod
260 gig SSD hard drive
gigabyte mobo

and it laughs at any game on market today or the next 3 years my only let down for next 2 monhgts is a 60 million year old ISP called DODO cant run 2 accounts becuase the new shiny eve takes up 2 much bandwidth ( i am in Australia give me break) till contract runs out and i cant a 24 mg conection back ,
i was quite suprised at this let down as i used to run both accounts on a 1.5 mg connection but alas CCP have slept with enemy and the smaller people matter no more just what is the saying in the CCP office now.

SHOW US THE MONEY ,NOW **** OFF
Syekuda
Little Builders
#692 - 2011-10-09 16:02:49 UTC
i wonder if CCP dev's still look at these comments after 35 pages ? Anyways, here is my thoughts on this blog.

First CCP began to lost touch to his users. They began to do task and actions which the community didn't ask. Users began to be pissed. Well knives was flying at everyone let say. Then, CCP created a group called CSM to multiple purpose but the main one was to help CCP to listen to it's users and make less mistakes (that's the image most people get of anyway).

It went well after a while but things got back at square one. CCP made mistakes, began to not listen to it's users. I personally know lots of my friends unsubscribed and stopped playing because of some of their actions. Again, CSM was created and they still didn't listen to their "disciples" after some time.

Helmar, don't take this wrong but I am very hesistant to believe your blog. I know lots of CEO, company leaders that gave the same message and didn't care at all. By conforting their customers like what you said, You simply hope they will let their guards down so you can continue your usually work.

Help me prove me wrong please. I still play this game mostly because of it's community not because of the gameplay unfortunately. The gameplay need lots of improvement which has been neglected for lots of years.

I could list some gameplay issues but users does that job awesomely ( does that word exist ? Lol). I could tell you some gameplay issues based on faction warfare since i'm in it but I could tell you other aspect like the wardec system and so on and so on since I face these issues more than others.

In the end, listen to the community instead of some jackass that only think's of money.
Maximilian Black
Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies
#693 - 2011-10-09 16:58:01 UTC
Talk is cheap - actions not words, please.

I cancelled both of my accounts after Incarna came about because the game had become boring. And frankly, a number of other veteran players I interacted with felt the same way.

CCP, the whole AGILE approach that you take with EVE is a huge, huge mistake. Enough with this "Chinese water torture" release methodology, it's ridiculous. It makes you release half-baked crap that's not feature complete, buggy and BORING, like Captain's Quarters. Incarna was a huge waste of our time, as there was still a litany of bugs and problems in the game that were completely ignored.

Next time, take 3 months to fix bugs and address balancing issues, stop wasting them on new bells and whistles. Do that any maybe I'll bring back my subscription money. Until then, my money is going to Sony.

Bye.
Max
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#694 - 2011-10-09 19:38:11 UTC
This log is very promising--hopefully, the promise will be delivered on. In a lot of the big crises, there has often been a startling degree of cluelessness in the official responses (remember the advice to target paint sieged dreadnoughts?), and this is a big step in the right direction. It's worth a lot to simply know that someone in power has noticed this stuff.

BlinSky wrote:
The no 1 Idea:
1) Seed 5k new nullsec systems

This will lead to lots of high sec people to go try the new unoccupied space providing them the chance to grow up into a new alliance and why not, provide lots of opportunity kills for pvpers.
Another thing will this do is spread around the current power blocks not just geographically but also in more smaller groups.
- this will further escalate to smaller gang warfare (at least on the first year or so)
Yes it will be a land rush at first but lets admit it we need this. Right now eve is all marked out. There's no room for anyone to grow unless they suck some heavy nuts.


They tried this, it was called the drone regions. How'd they work out again? Smile

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
Reana Shadows
Doomheim
#695 - 2011-10-09 22:42:48 UTC
I like the Captain Quarter, I thaught it gave more depth to game experience and a new orientation and feel to the game. For me it's two thumbs up CCPBig smile
Norjia Blacksteel
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
#696 - 2011-10-09 23:12:18 UTC
I've never really cared about Incarna. I've been here since Red Moon Rising, and whenever Ambulation was mentioned, it just seemed like a feature from some other MMO. I'm in this for the politics and economics. As far as I've been concerned, Incarna was just a set of features I might toy with, but not invest serious playtime into. The biggest effect it's had on me is that I now look at a wall because I don't like the load time for the useless captain's quarters. Beyond that, it hasn't affected my personal experience.

However, what matters to me about what's been going on is that I have lost really dependable members because they hate Incarna and what it stands for. They (correctly or incorrectly) see it as EVE changing from a subscription-based player-driven economy to a micro-transaction-based developer-driven economy.

In my opinon, the change to microtransaction already happened with the introduction of PLEX. But RMT was happening, so I didn't see it was more than bringing that into the fold.

Our operation is small enough that I don't really have a sense of the scale of annoyance these updates have caused, so I'm not trying to say my vote has a lot of weight. But if Incarna marks a shift to EVE attempting to have mainstream appeal, I worry it will break the game. EVE has never been a mainstream game, but that's why I like it. Mainstream games are like WoW and EverQuest, neither of which I like very much.

Should EVE gain massive amounts of users through appealing to the masses by losing its hardcore nature, CCP will have more money, but lose me and many other fervent supporters. I guess that's what businesses do; try to get more money.

All good things must come to an end, and maybe this is just a sign of that end nearing. But I hope not; I like the idea of MMOs, and none is worth playing except EVE.
Mereden
Space Lizards
#697 - 2011-10-10 14:41:02 UTC
With the usual 'it's what you do that matters' caveat....

Welcome back CCP - we've missed you Smile
maya ibuki2
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#698 - 2011-10-10 14:55:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Good first step down a long road, Hellmar. Stay the course and we'll be with you every step of the way.

Looking forward to the follow on where you detail how you're going to commit to the new path. Please believe that we still wish you every success, and that all we've ever wanted was to sincerely help you make EVE the flagship of the entire MMO community. As I still believe it should be.

As I still believe it can be.

You said you were going to watch what we did. I know what you were thinking when you wrote those words, but let me recast them for you in another way. EVE is a sandbox, In the MMO world, EVE should stand for community, for partnership between players and developers, for continual evolution, for the greatest social experiment in gaming history.

Give us the opportunity to work with you, give us the tools to reshape this gorgeous, vicious, intriguing, unparalleled universe and then, by God, watch what we do with them.


Don't let us down and we won't let you down.

Deal?



this is a hell of a lot more eloquently put than i coulda done, so im just gonna quote it, and re-iterate the hope that EVE and CCP can walk out of the recent turmoils with its head held high.
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#699 - 2011-10-10 15:52:38 UTC
Maximilian Black wrote:
Talk is cheap - actions not words, please.

I cancelled both of my accounts after Incarna came about because the game had become boring. And frankly, a number of other veteran players I interacted with felt the same way.

CCP, the whole AGILE approach that you take with EVE is a huge, huge mistake. Enough with this "Chinese water torture" release methodology, it's ridiculous. It makes you release half-baked crap that's not feature complete, buggy and BORING, like Captain's Quarters. Incarna was a huge waste of our time, as there was still a litany of bugs and problems in the game that were completely ignored.

Next time, take 3 months to fix bugs and address balancing issues, stop wasting them on new bells and whistles. Do that any maybe I'll bring back my subscription money. Until then, my money is going to Sony.

Bye.
Max


You talk about a waste of time and resources, and then you tell us your money is going to Sony Online Entertainment? Really?

So it goes.
Don Chelli
E.D.M. Interstellar Corp
#700 - 2011-10-11 14:46:35 UTC
The Hubris began with the removal of the learning skills. They were taken out and with this a beautiful aspect of the game.
To decide which way to go and take the consequences.
Now CCP I hope you think over.
Think safe!