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New dev blog: A letter to the followers of EVE

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NeGaMeSH
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#661 - 2011-10-08 03:45:51 UTC
Its good to see that Hilmar wrote this humble pie blog. However, for me it has come too late.
Since Incarna I have already detached myself from the pointless grind that Eve has become. How many times have you killed Zor, over and over, how long can one stare at a rock, how many times have you killed someone, or got killed while trying?
For what purpose? More isk? A silly killmail? A stupid monocle?

When you grind a bit you can earn billions, what else is next? More Isk? To do what? Get 16 hurricanes?
Fly a bigger ship? Want a Titan? It will blow up eventually, well back to grinding again then.
What are you saying? Did your wife ran off because you where living in the basement for 5 months because
you want to replace the lost pixels? Ah what the hell it is only 5 month of your life you just lost, back to some more grinding.

Rinse repeat.
Kill some more, die some more, conquer systems which change hands again a month later. Good luck.

New and interesting expansions would have kept myself and my friends attached.

What made Eve interesting for me where the people i met in this game, but they all left the building for some time now,
due to lack of new content. With interesting new content, new crazy ships, more things to do other than signing up with
the blob alliances, i probably would have kept playing.

What CCP can never fix is the fact that the 'endgame' of Eve is pretty much pointless.
The endgame is controlled by maybe 20-30 peeps that play 24/7, they are all tangled up in crazy politics, lurking in chatboxes and channels all day to play the grinding puppets. You either sign up with the blobbing barrel of monkeys and become a puppet, or spin your ship out of boredom, log on less and less, and see your buddies leave one at the time.

This will not be fixed by any supercap nerf, hybrid balancing, shiney icons, or another overhaul of nullsec.
This mea culpa from Hilmar is nothing more then an attempt to keep everybody in to squeeze the lemon, till their
next games comes out. This lemon has dried up. Cheers and good luck.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#662 - 2011-10-08 04:09:09 UTC
CCP Hellmar wrote:
We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope


So "pay to win" is and always was on the table...

Thanks for confirming what caused this mess to begin with.
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#663 - 2011-10-08 04:24:20 UTC
Wylee Coyote wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope


So "pay to win" is and always was on the table...

Thanks for confirming what caused this mess to begin with.


You're right. Because it's completely unrealistic to expect a business to adapt to a radically changing market. I mean, what are they? A publicly traded company or something?

So it goes.
BlinSky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#664 - 2011-10-08 05:50:46 UTC
After saying what I thought about the famous blog, I thought to re write my opinion in a different manner

How To Save EVE:

1) Seed 5k new nullsec systems,
2) Go back to the 60, 90 day Gtc's (or some for like that) ,
3) Make the highest null sec system have at leas 1 sanctum,
4) Fix bugs
5)Add new stuff after implementing the first 4 steps.

Now leme explain what that will do:

The no 1 Idea:
1) Seed 5k new nullsec systems

This will lead to lots of high sec people to go try the new unoccupied space providing them the chance to grow up into a new alliance and why not, provide lots of opportunity kills for pvpers.
Another thing will this do is spread around the current power blocks not just geographically but also in more smaller groups.
- this will further escalate to smaller gang warfare (at least on the first year or so)
Yes it will be a land rush at first but lets admit it we need this. Right now eve is all marked out. There's no room for anyone to grow unless they suck some heavy nuts.

The No 2 and 3 Ideas:
2) Go back to the 60, 90 day Gtc's (or some for like that)
3) Make the highest null sec system (0.0) have at leas 1 sanctum at lvl5 level of upgrade

This are directly aimed at the plex paying pvpers. How? You ask? Simple:
Today's plex prices are horrible. I am a pvper (or try to be LOL) and current game style forces me to do **** that's not fun for me just so I can manage staying in game, not just cover the ships I lose. But, by taking care of my main problem (account payment by plex/gtc) I would actually start to have fun again. If I was to rat for 5-6-7h and pay my account for 3 months, than pretty much the rest of 89 days Il have fun and actually enjoy eve.
Id be back up to 3 or maybe make me 4th - 5th accounts.

So personally I think that(from plex point of view) CCP had to choose, either Sell a few expensive or sell many cheap. And I think they went for few expensve in the hope that will turn in many expensive. But people can't keep up with plex prices like this. 410mil for a plex how would I ever buy me 3 or 5 a month, how would I ever buy a friend of mine 3 months of game play to introduce him to eve if I can't sustain my own game play, not to mention I no longer pvp/have fun cuz I have to run after sites with the probes all day????

I've put in 5years of my life in this game, its been fun And I really would like to keep at it but I'm to tired to grind for isk just so I can buy plex. I'm tired to log in and see bugs that I reported for months still affecting my game play, I'm tired of CCP to ignore me and the guys that really want to make the game work.

There it is my atempt to save eve so I can continue having fun with spaceships, do as you think CCP I'l stop posting now.

Thx for the fun years of eve. GL
Rhynn Izo
Banzai Institute for Advanced Warfare and Tactics
#665 - 2011-10-08 06:31:20 UTC
Nice blog, reads ok to me, lets hope CCP can keep their Promises and get back on Course Big smile

* Vote for Engine Trails anyone ? Shocked *
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#666 - 2011-10-08 06:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope


So "pay to win" is and always was on the table...

Thanks for confirming what caused this mess to begin with.


You're right. Because it's completely unrealistic to expect a business to adapt to a radically changing market. I mean, what are they? A publicly traded company or something?


No no no, you're right, completely contradicting your company's stance for years on a matter, twice now, and the point of an entire apology that was necessary because of the first time the stance was (made officially known to be) broken, is always the best way to continue to do business with "The followers of Eve" or even garner new business alltogether. Hence the sh!tstorm we just had about all this (you have a very big rock to live under as you've clearly missed it) and mass exodus of long term fans/players/subscribers(<-that means less money, you know, the stuff CCP is trying to figure out how to get more of AND, ultimately, what shareholders want more of).


TL;DR
The Point <------------------------------------------------------------> You
Deichi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#667 - 2011-10-08 07:45:58 UTC
BTW: Your forums suck.... I just wrote a 2000 words reply and the preview shows nothing... and there is no way back... please replace JavaScript with normal forms... thank you...
Deichi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#668 - 2011-10-08 07:55:38 UTC
I will try to paraphrase my loooong post into some shorter things:
Please Hilmar, do not lose the future vision out of sight. Thats what I am still paying my monthly fee for. I only play EVE for changing my skills now and I sit in my beloved captains quarters and wait for the doors to the station to open. In any free to play model I would probably pay nothing for that. Think about that.

And about ship spinning: Apart from beeing able to spin your ship in space, it now spins more realistic in the hangar and you even have a small wireframe model around which you can walk.
Extend that with an interaction that zooms in and adds the full model detail which you then can spin and most players will be lucky (except those that already accepted the ship as BEEING their avatar)

Keep the balance between keeping current gameplay fun and building for the future.
And please do not try to build your funding on free-to-play models. Name only ONE MMO that still makes good money with that. Most of those are already dead.
HanSolos Daddy
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#669 - 2011-10-08 07:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: HanSolos Daddy
CCP, customers don't want a superior business model, they want a quality game experience. People who only play Free to play MMOs (i.e. pay to win) are not a good source of income so why try to attract them? Use some common sense instead of all these fail business models. These models work fine for cheap web based and Facebook games. They don't work for high end offerings like Eve. CCP needs to quit worrying about what HelloKittyOnline and whatever other "free" junk mmos are doing and just take care of their customers and their product. Porsche didn't throw in the towel when Toyota made cars 1/5 as expensive as theirs, and Porsche is doing fine. Think about it-what would you rather drive? What would you rather play?
HanSolos Daddy
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#670 - 2011-10-08 08:31:49 UTC
Deichi wrote:
BTW: Your forums suck.... I just wrote a 2000 words reply and the preview shows nothing... and there is no way back... please replace JavaScript with normal forms... thank you...


Lol. The forums ate my first post too, after I used the preview feature...
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#671 - 2011-10-08 09:23:34 UTC
well....

No real opinion. I just hope things work out. Sorry to hear establishments being put on the back burner.
I was looking so forward to that.

To the sounds of it progress just fell short of expectations and the great gift of incarna had to be put to the side. As the crowd can only give so much leeway.

would at least like to have 1 team working on incarna. 1 Team should work effeciently vs trying to co-ordinate several.


I hope time dialation becomes a good fix, and multi tread coding becomes a possile step

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#672 - 2011-10-08 12:43:43 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
well....

...

I hope time dialation becomes a good fix, and multi tread coding becomes a possile step

That would have to be more than one step wouldn't it?

:)
Maul555
Xen Investments
#673 - 2011-10-08 13:01:15 UTC
+ $15
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#674 - 2011-10-08 13:22:03 UTC
Wylee Coyote wrote:
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope


So "pay to win" is and always was on the table...

Thanks for confirming what caused this mess to begin with.


You're right. Because it's completely unrealistic to expect a business to adapt to a radically changing market. I mean, what are they? A publicly traded company or something?


No no no, you're right, completely contradicting your company's stance for years on a matter, twice now, and the point of an entire apology that was necessary because of the first time the stance was (made officially known to be) broken, is always the best way to continue to do business with "The followers of Eve" or even garner new business alltogether. Hence the sh!tstorm we just had about all this (you have a very big rock to live under as you've clearly missed it) and mass exodus of long term fans/players/subscribers(<-that means less money, you know, the stuff CCP is trying to figure out how to get more of AND, ultimately, what shareholders want more of).


TL;DR
The Point <------------------------------------------------------------> You


You're right, I did miss the shitstorm. And I've spent the last few days trying very hard to get a recap. I'm doing pretty well.

I didn't miss the point. You did. Radical changes mean a corporation (CCP) will not survive if it doesn't change. CCP, despite what you seem to believe, is entitled to survival. The point that you missed is this is a projection for a radical change that would 1) take years from it's beginning to come full circle, and 2) isn't even close to happening. Subscriptions are the bread and butter of everything right now. You can even get a subsrciption to Hulu, for christ's sake. So, you're getting upset that CCP is exhibiting fictional conformity to the fictional market in a future that isn't even close to happening. I may be living under a rock, but you're hallucinating. You may want to talk to someone about that.

So it goes.
Eli Strange
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#675 - 2011-10-08 15:13:23 UTC
Thank you. I will be excited to see what improvements you bring to the game.
Freggan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#676 - 2011-10-08 16:31:21 UTC
Thank you, can I play without losing any of my hard earned and payed for (in isk and actual money) property now please?
ButtFungus
SOONWAFFE
#677 - 2011-10-08 16:39:26 UTC
HanSolos Daddy wrote:
CCP, customers don't want a superior business model, they want a quality game experience. People who only play Free to play MMOs (i.e. pay to win) are not a good source of income so why try to attract them? Use some common sense instead of all these fail business models. These models work fine for cheap web based and Facebook games. They don't work for high end offerings like Eve. CCP needs to quit worrying about what HelloKittyOnline and whatever other "free" junk mmos are doing and just take care of their customers and their product. Porsche didn't throw in the towel when Toyota made cars 1/5 as expensive as theirs, and Porsche is doing fine. Think about it-what would you rather drive? What would you rather play?


^^^THIS^^^ Read this CCP. Read this Ten times. This is who plays Eve. Stop thinking about filling your wallet short term, and think of 300,000 players like this filling your wallet every month forever.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#678 - 2011-10-08 17:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
Nandy Cocytus wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
CCP Hellmar wrote:
We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope


So "pay to win" is and always was on the table...

Thanks for confirming what caused this mess to begin with.


You're right. Because it's completely unrealistic to expect a business to adapt to a radically changing market. I mean, what are they? A publicly traded company or something?


No no no, you're right, completely contradicting your company's stance for years on a matter, twice now, and the point of an entire apology that was necessary because of the first time the stance was (made officially known to be) broken, is always the best way to continue to do business with "The followers of Eve" or even garner new business alltogether. Hence the sh!tstorm we just had about all this (you have a very big rock to live under as you've clearly missed it) and mass exodus of long term fans/players/subscribers(<-that means less money, you know, the stuff CCP is trying to figure out how to get more of AND, ultimately, what shareholders want more of).


TL;DR
The Point <------------------------------------------------------------> You


You're right, I did miss the shitstorm. And I've spent the last few days trying very hard to get a recap. I'm doing pretty well.

I didn't miss the point. You did. Radical changes mean a corporation (CCP) will not survive if it doesn't change. CCP, despite what you seem to believe, is entitled to survival. The point that you missed is this is a projection for a radical change that would 1) take years from it's beginning to come full circle, and 2) isn't even close to happening. Subscriptions are the bread and butter of everything right now. You can even get a subsrciption to Hulu, for christ's sake. So, you're getting upset that CCP is exhibiting fictional conformity to the fictional market in a future that isn't even close to happening. I may be living under a rock, but you're hallucinating. You may want to talk to someone about that.


You may want to put on your reading comprehension cap, as nowhere in my post did I say that CCP is not allowed to change their business model and as you've clearly not caught anywhere near up to speed on the sh!tstorm.

The point ypu continually ignore is that in addition to having never said that CCP is not allowed to change their business model, I (and many others, as evident in the sh!tstorm created by Hillmar's leaked letter) was in agreement with the current business model of subscription (and plex sale) based income. This business model was also backed up with CCP's official stance that no one will be able to pay to win in eve no matter what. Then the leaked letter confirmed a suspicion that this was not the case, that CCP can, will, and always have considered using a pay to win business model (which, again, because you keep ignoring it, no one is saying that they do not have a right to do) which was a community 'call to arms' for if CCP has been lying to "The followers of Eve" about this, what is the point of believin anything they say, despite the fact that CCP has prided themselves as being one of the few companies that are most in touch with they're playerbase.

The other point that you're ignoring is that the creation the NEX store to begin with is the vehicle which a pay to win business model will be deliered by, the other reason for the massive sh!tstorm.

Even in Hillmar's apology blog (as I've quoted) there is a clear affirmation that even after all of Hillmar's/Zulu's/CCP's apologizing,they still retain the right to completely ignore years of customer trust, and official policy (again, because you want to read otherwise, they have every right to do this, no one is saying otherwise).

So, because it hasn't happened yet is not the issue that has/is causing the sh!tstorm and mass exodus of lon term subscribers, it is because they are saying that it can happen to begin with, and have already laid the foundation for it to happen that invalidates everythin else they say, especially this 'apology.'
Eric Lancier
Lancier Trading Corporation
#679 - 2011-10-08 17:48:40 UTC
Hellmar, nice first step, i respect that.

a few minor points tho:

Station spinning wasn't purely an "emotional attachment" thingy, it was useful, being able to deal with your ship in a visual format that was as simple as right clicking, that was it's base worth, seeing your ship in full glory was just fun., the third person CQ just makes it a mission to refit, check cargo or just enjoy checking out your hull-choice.

second: in my view, EVE has always been about "in space" interactions, if the players wanted pretty avatars with expensive equipment they would be playing wow or one of the numerous pay-to-win games available, i like the CQ and walk in stations idea but don't forget your core players that live in your universe.

after all that, thanks again for the best game ever concieved, don't F**K it up... please ;)

love
Eric
Nandy Cocytus
Doomheim
#680 - 2011-10-08 19:00:34 UTC
Quote:


You may want to put on your reading comprehension cap, as nowhere in my post did I say that CCP is not allowed to change their business model and as you've clearly not caught anywhere near up to speed on the sh!tstorm.

The point ypu continually ignore is that in addition to having never said that CCP is not allowed to change their business model, I (and many others, as evident in the sh!tstorm created by Hillmar's leaked letter) was in agreement with the current business model of subscription (and plex sale) based income. This business model was also backed up with CCP's official stance that no one will be able to pay to win in eve no matter what. Then the leaked letter confirmed a suspicion that this was not the case, that CCP can, will, and always have considered using a pay to win business model (which, again, because you keep ignoring it, no one is saying that they do not have a right to do) which was a community 'call to arms' for if CCP has been lying to "The followers of Eve" about this, what is the point of believin anything they say, despite the fact that CCP has prided themselves as being one of the few companies that are most in touch with they're playerbase.

The other point that you're ignoring is that the creation the NEX store to begin with is the vehicle which a pay to win business model will be deliered by, the other reason for the massive sh!tstorm.

Even in Hillmar's apology blog (as I've quoted) there is a clear affirmation that even after all of Hillmar's/Zulu's/CCP's apologizing,they still retain the right to completely ignore years of customer trust, and official policy (again, because you want to read otherwise, they have every right to do this, no one is saying otherwise).

So, because it hasn't happened yet is not the issue that has/is causing the sh!tstorm and mass exodus of lon term subscribers, it is because they are saying that it can happen to begin with, and have already laid the foundation for it to happen that invalidates everythin else they say, especially this 'apology.'


I think I understand now...

Demand perfection according to Wylee Coyote, Super Genius, at every turn.
Anything else is fundamentally flawed and doomed to fail.
Always and Forever. Jawohl

I've had more productive exchanges with my car.

So it goes.