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Drones are wet paper bags now

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Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-05 05:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rensari
Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.

For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.

Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.

This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.

I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.

I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.

Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay.





Edit - my reply to most critique posts so far:

I like how most of the mindless troll posts are stuff like:

"Adapt"

Love the one word troll answers. This would sort of be the equivalent of a new feature being added to guns that they overheat and become worthless after about 10 seconds. Then I troll your post and say "adapt". LOL

or

"switch your ship setup to buff drone hp"

(AKA gimp your tank / damage - and now your drones might last a few more seconds)

or

"No more AFK boat!!!"

See my suggestion to resolve this problem which would make drones viable again but still preclude AFKing

or

"Now you can't solo anymore! This is intended by CCP!"

http://i.qkme.me/3pl5x3.jpg
Umm yeah so that's why people can still solo level 4 missions all day long in non-drone boats. Clearly they want to stop soloing level 4 missions after all of these years! You got me!

or

"switch to guns / missiles"

Yes. That is what will have to happen as the current state of drones is pathetic. But... this is the equivalent of nerfing an entire weapon class for pve. Pretty much all drones are good for are pvp now.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#2 - 2012-12-05 05:48:11 UTC
you might be doing it wrong. Adapt?
Don't use ogre 2s at the start?
Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-05 05:51:03 UTC
Clearly you didn't read my post or you would have saw:

>> Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.

I've been using drone boats in missions for years. I know how the aggro system works. You do realize CCP changed mission AI right?

From the patch notes:

>> Sleeper AI has been added to mission and belt NPCs.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#4 - 2012-12-05 05:53:50 UTC
I've heard people use this tactic:

1) release set of cheap T1 drones;

2) allow rats to chew couple of them - they'll become "stuffed" and start to ignore drones;

3) call out T1 drones and deploy T2.

With this new "anti-drone" AI CCP could at least implement ability to inject new drones into drone bay directly from cargo w/o parking at station.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-12-05 05:54:25 UTC
Rensari wrote:
Clearly you didn't read my post or you would have saw:

>> Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.

I've been using drone boats in missions for years. I know how the aggro system works. You do realize CCP changed mission AI right?

From the patch notes:

>> Sleeper AI has been added to mission and belt NPCs.


It would seem you no longer know how it works.

Adapt.
Darkmus Zay
Bedlam.
#6 - 2012-12-05 06:03:28 UTC
I partially agree, my issue is how fast cruisers change target to drones.
sometimes it's nearly instant and you can risk having to recall and put out drones 4 to 6 times, before you can focus down anything without interruption.

This change is putting a HUGE nerf on all drone based ratting platforms, like sentry carriers..
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#7 - 2012-12-05 06:04:54 UTC
I like the metaphor of drones being wet paper bags :).
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#8 - 2012-12-05 06:07:51 UTC
sentries

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Reidar Oskald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-12-05 06:08:01 UTC
Rensari wrote:
Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.

For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.

Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.

This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.

I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.

I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.

Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay.


CCP has been wanting people to get away from Soloing Level 4's, I think, and this is one of the changes. Granted, it does hurt a lot of PVE, I know in Null doing sites is more difficult due to this as well. Also, there is a 'bug' I've seen mentioned that CCP knows about and is working around for this, I won't give details but its there if you search.

Reidar
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#10 - 2012-12-05 06:48:20 UTC
Rensari wrote:
Drones die ridiculously fast now. I know their HP haven't been changed or anything, but with the new AI they get targeted en masse by rats and can die in just a few seconds.

For example, I was doing the mission Damsel in Distress with my Rattlesnake. I have maxed out drones skills and Gallente BS V. So my drones get a bunch more hit points. I put out 5x Ogre IIs and was targetting the Battleships that were orbiting me at around 3-4k. The cruisers / battlecruisers would target an Ogre II and within a few seconds it would be into structure. I was watching them like a hawk, and was able to pull them in before they died... but if they had been further than say 4k from my ship? Dead Ogres.

Even after reaggroing everything and launching them again, the same thing would happen.

This is insane. Drones are pretty much worthless against NPCs now in higher level missions or content with a lot of rats.

I understand that we want to get away from the AFK drone boat style, but fully maxed out HP Ogre IIs dying in seconds is ridiculous.

I propose that CCP reduce damage to Drones from NPCs by 95%. This way no HP changes will affect PvP. Also this way you still can't AFK as your drones will still get popped. But it will give durability to drones such that they can be useful again for attacking targets over a longer range from your ship, and a careful player will be able to micro them back and forth to the ship.

Also it would be nice to have some sort of self repairing ability to repair drones armor / hull once inside your drone bay.


This is what i said earlier today:

Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#11 - 2012-12-05 06:54:47 UTC
Reidar Oskald wrote:
CCP has been wanting people to get away from Soloing Level 4's, I think, and this is one of the changes. Granted, it does hurt a lot of PVE, I know in Null doing sites is more difficult due to this as well.

Hm, yes. Time to think about triple rigging with drone HP bonuses. My ratting dominix alts have Gallente BS IV and Drone Durability IV...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-12-05 06:55:40 UTC
Spc One wrote:
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place?

.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#13 - 2012-12-05 07:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Vera Algaert wrote:
Spc One wrote:
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place?

Let's take paladin for example.
PALADIN has 12 sensor strength, that's less than t-1 cruiser.

Omen (t-1) cruiser has 15, Paladin has 12.

So even with everything on level 5, it still is stupid and you'll get jammed 99.8% of all time.
Paladin with level 5 skills has 14.4 sensor strength.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#14 - 2012-12-05 07:20:13 UTC
I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs.

Remove standings and insurance.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#15 - 2012-12-05 07:23:25 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Spc One wrote:
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

Shouldn't the ECM compensation skills make you less likely to get jammed in the first place?


There are missions with up to 6 ECM Elite ships, the only way to EVER do them without a Caldari ship is to dual box them. One ship sits perma jammed silly, the other does the killing.

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Reidar Oskald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-12-05 07:25:13 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs.


Nerf bats=best bats. You can hit all you want, cause some tears, and no one bruises so you can't get in trouble.

I haven't tried/even really read the missile nerfs since they don't really effect me, should look into it though... I will say it seems a lot of ship types are getting hit hard with this, and hope CCP sees this and the effect it is having.

Reidar
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-05 07:25:45 UTC
Use drone HP rigs.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-05 07:29:09 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Use drone HP rigs.


"but then I won't be cap stable!!!!"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#19 - 2012-12-05 07:35:30 UTC
Reidar Oskald wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
I can't wait to get into my vengeance and try out those rocket nerfs.

Nerf bats=best bats. You can hit all you want, cause some tears, and no one bruises so you can't get in trouble.

I haven't tried/even really read the missile nerfs since they don't really effect me, should look into it though... I will say it seems a lot of ship types are getting hit hard with this, and hope CCP sees this and the effect it is having.

Mostly Drake and Tengu I thought?

I mean sure some other ships use the much cried about Heavy Missiles, but those are the big ones. Unless chaps are still ratting in Caracals.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-12-05 07:41:29 UTC
All those tears are so delicious CCP. Good job with expansion.
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