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as if millions of carebears suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced

Author
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#41 - 2012-12-06 21:44:37 UTC
Annunaki soldier wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
I would say that the new AI is not a nerf but an addition to the game think of it as CCP added LVL-4.5 missions to the mix. If you could barely do LVL-4 missions before then you might be better off going back to LVL-3’s till you have properly skilled the ship you need for 4’s.

After all I am pretty sure nobody is doing LVL-4’s in the same ship they were doing LVL-1’s in.

"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome" -Gunnery Sgt. Tom Highway


not really but i dont like the get doing level 3 until you skill up to be able to rock. A t1 battleship with t2 resist and t1 drones should be able to slowly but able to do level 4. Not all have the time nor the millions of skill points . And to be honest a person forced to do level 3 might quit faster the game than a person that the game grant the feeling of success of doing high level stuff (whatever even incursions are much easier now)

Drone ai is a nice change when it comes making the drone user actually paing attenion but its not working as intended.


I do think they should have introduced a new drone interface to help compensate for the new ‘Drone angry’ AI.

Thinking back I remember the first LVL4 mission I ever got ‘Worlds Collide’ serp/gurista I was flying a Cain at the time and could not get through the first gate as you can imagine. That mission sat in my ‘to do’ list for 13 days (several attempts left me limping away with a sliver of structure) till I finally grabbed a corp friend and managed to watch him tank it with ease.
I got my first maelstrom a few weeks later and still was unable to do that mission without several warpouts and the loss of two maelstroms before I finally got it right.

I guess what I am trying to say as delicately as possible is these missions should not be easily done by a t1 ship or for that matter a cruiser. lvl4 missions should cost you your ship every now and then, to keep you working towards a goal.

Granted there are LVL5 missions to aspire to but with the added danger of low sec pirates and gankers some people never even see a LVL5 agent let alone accept a mission. As this is then, end all, be all, of high sec Missions shouldn’t it be the hardest and require more than 2 to 3 months of training.

I run Incursions all the time with a great group of friends, I run missions when I can’t dedicate the time required for Incursions. I survived the Incursion nerf when CCP made them so hard that only ‘faction or better’ fitted Machs had a prayer of doing them with a profit margin in line to LVL4’s, then they nerfed the payout on LVL4’s as well now they have made LVL4’s ‘dangerous’ and will probably wait like they did with Incursions for 3 months to decide if they are too tough.

So settle in for the long haul.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Dar Saleem
VDD Logistics
#42 - 2012-12-07 01:19:46 UTC
Sir John Halsey wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
alright, we get it, missioning with drone boats sucks. can we now please unrustle our jimmies and adapt?


I would send those who complain for a few weeks in a C3 WH to learn to manage their drones Pirate



Yes we know that in sleeper sites you get 30 + ships all aggroing you at the same time,



Oh wait you dont they come in waves.

i would like to get the so called know it all worm holers to try mission.

I know sleeper lived in a C4 for 8 months
Cage Man
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-12-07 01:36:07 UTC
I have lived in C3's, C4 and C6 whs' I run missions in HS, LS and anoms in null. Only time I have ever lost drones in either is if I don't pay attention. I don't ever send my drones 50km away to kill things, well unless they fighters.. and where possible I use sentry drones and fit a shield RR in a high slot. This works just as well in missions, wh and anom running in NULL..
Vixorz
Cabronazos
#44 - 2012-12-07 01:53:39 UTC
After some lvl 4 missions i find this combo very useful:

Sentries + Target Painter + Micro Jump Drive = Win

\o/
Dar Saleem
VDD Logistics
#45 - 2012-12-07 04:26:24 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
I have lived in C3's, C4 and C6 whs' I run missions in HS, LS and anoms in null. Only time I have ever lost drones in either is if I don't pay attention. I don't ever send my drones 50km away to kill things, well unless they fighters.. and where possible I use sentry drones and fit a shield RR in a high slot. This works just as well in missions, wh and anom running in NULL..



Sentries dont have anywhere near the problem that scout drones have.

Even using no tricks my sentries hardly ever got shot at. throw out scout/med/heavy and they get insta ganked


I did a test, dropped a set of the garde 2's was remote repping one, npcs never changed from me to the sentry's after 5 minutes

sucked them in and dropped a set of ogre 2's, left one on passive orbiting me while being remote repped, with 20 seconds the other ogres were being targeted and shot. they both have 100m sig radius so not sure what the difference is
Sin Koraka
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-12-07 06:31:06 UTC
I lost a few firbolgs today in Wrath of Angels L5. Theres in relation to other l5's not that many npcs that spawn. I had changed my carrier and bastardized it to fit a tp to catch aggro and threat the nutjobs but once the fighters were just about on the mission structure they started getting smacked hard. I immediatly recalled all of them, before i could lock the dying firbolg (never mind it wasnt in rep range) it exploded and another one began a death spiral. Again before i could locked it DIAF. 3rd one started going down, my tp is still running on these angels, and the fighter docks in structure. And yes Sebo with scan res is equipped. I just docked the carrier and said **** it. -50m in less than a minute. There really is nothing i can think of that i could have done to change the outcome of that.

I could try and go back in 2 bs's and probably complete this since this is oen of the 'easier' missions but im not sure i want to put forth the effort of micromanaging drones, watching both ships hp and dscanning every three seconds. Alot of these i used to do with 2 bs's 1 being the passive tank (neut sentries) another as logi/dps. Carrier was because im lazy sometimes. With these new changes im not even going to try. Missions like that will just be more expensive to run with what to gain? I see no scaling.
Josefine Etrange
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-12-07 15:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Josefine Etrange
Caldari Citizen20121206 wrote:
tell me how you call back your ogre's from 45km if they got webbed by an npc, i know either you go at zero range and scoop them or dont use ogres anymore. But sure, you tested every perspective of drone boats and were just noobs. Sure, tell me more of this cool story.


You do not recall ogres, because you do not need to recall them when battleships start shooting them. And you do not launch ogres if there are frigs still on grid. D'oh.

Vixorz wrote:
After some lvl 4 missions i find this combo very useful:

Sentries + Target Painter + Micro Jump Drive = Win

\o/


You Sir, are a genius.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#48 - 2012-12-07 16:27:06 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
I have lived in C3's, C4 and C6 whs' I run missions in HS, LS and anoms in null. Only time I have ever lost drones in either is if I don't pay attention. I don't ever send my drones 50km away to kill things, well unless they fighters.. and where possible I use sentry drones and fit a shield RR in a high slot. This works just as well in missions, wh and anom running in NULL..


Go back to null, enter a Forlon Hub of any race, come back here and tell me how that worked for you.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#49 - 2012-12-07 16:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
get your ship into anomalies , take sanctums or hordes for example , and use a drone boat. Then come again and tell us your feedback. Else take that CNR , and do some lvl 4 (i assume you tryed there) that they are lots of frigs inside the pocket like wc , then try again with your drones. You will understand why those changes annoyed so much people.


What do you think I did, dropped a can in JIta and orbited it for a couple of hours? As I said, I used a number of dedicated drone boats, as well as ships that rely on drones to kill frigs in actual missions. My feedback is based exclusively on that. Do you know what happened? I lost ZERO drones. I had ONE drone reach armor and that was due to my own fail (would have happened before the patch as well). It's fine.

Basically, drone boats before Retribution: shoot once to get aggro, drop drones, go afk until the next wave spawns. Drone boats after Retribution: drop drones, watch if they're taking damage, returning them to the bay as needed to regenerate shields. No afking - which is working as intended, imo. The only people that lose here are the ones using 5x Dominix and an off-grid Loki booster to mass-run the missions, for the rest, the missions got less easy-mode, which is a good thing.


So you did run a few santums, not just level 4 missions, and you did try using heavy drones, and when they got agro, they were able to make it back to the drone bay before they died?

The new A.I. not only targets drones but webs them. At least it did on the test server. If they are not orbiting your ship or close to it, if they get agro they die. You can watch them as close as you want, tell them to return to drone bay at the first sign of damage. But if they are more than 20k out when they get targeted and webed, they will not make it back.

The majority of level 4 missions this is not a huge issue. But any fit that uses medium or heavy drones where they do not stay close to your ship they are dead if they get agro. Any mission where the majority of NPC's are cruiser and smaller your drones will pull agro more often. Most of the harder level 4 missions are relatively unaffected as they are mostly battleship and battlecruiser NPC's. These will rarely target drones. It is the missions with +20 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers that drone boats will have a lot of trouble with.

What of the issues with running null sec Plexes with a carrier. Your fighters pull all the agro, the carrier is so big it just gets ignored. Fighters can not tank for SHlT so they die.
Xuahn
McDermott Industries
#50 - 2012-12-07 16:53:22 UTC
I didn't have any problems with the new AI as far as drones go.

I usually run 4's in a navy mega, granted i have been out of the game for awhile.

My only issue last night running Serp the assult, was being locked by the entire room and damped x6 with in 10 seconds after warp in. My effective range was knocked down to like 20km.

Its the cruisers that do the damping, and they are almost impossible to catch. Tanking the room was easy, but it took a hell a long time to clear.

I eventually said screw it hoped in an enyo and speed tanked the place until I took out all the damn damping cruisers. then it was a cake walk.

I don't mind the new ai or even the whole room aggro, but hell there has to be something they can tweak with the ew. I guess i can mess with my fit and run more sebo, but speed tanking in a navy mega is kinda lol
Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-12-07 18:09:29 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Would be nice for a temp forum ban for everyone of those posts that crops up. But just like when sleepers were introduced and people whined that you couldn't use gallente ships in wormholes, it will die down. Those of us who actually know how to play, who aren't lazy pieces of crap will continue flying the same way we did before, with zero issues.


This.
However, the "bug" where entire rooms aggro is kind of taxing.
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