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Crime & Punishment

 
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Is can flipping dead?
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Vendec
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-05 02:22:44 UTC
Can flipping took a major hit with the mining barge changes introduced before this update but it is totally dead now.

When barges have such massive ore holds and almost the same mining amout what point is there to using jet cans? Still, there were a few miners who refused to change their ways and so there was still some can flipping going on. I myself flipped many of these remaining cans and generated a few interesting fights however this new crime watch change has killed can flipping completely.

From the patch notes on loot rights:
Quote:
-Taking from a container illegally will give the thief a Suspect flag.
-If a container is owned by a character whom you can legally attack (due to war, engagements or any other reason), then you can legally take from that container.


If I am reading this correctly, and I think I am; when you flip someone's can they can take from the can you moved the ore to freely without becoming a valid target. If this is the case then there is no way to can flip any more, the miner simply takes his ore back.

Is this the correct interpertation of this change? If so, is there any way to prevent the miner from taking the ore back without becoming a valid target to someone? Does anyone care?
Sutha Moliko
Giza'Msafara
#2 - 2012-12-05 03:34:53 UTC
You are correct. Can flipping is dead. There is no way to prevent the miner to take his ore back except by stealing it. In such case, you don't even need a can flip. Just take your industrial and loot his can.

However, try a can flip at Jita IV 4 undock. You will get a lot of "interesting fights" ! Lol
And if you want the "ultimate fight", put on your own head a billion ISK bounty, take your wonderful pirate ship and can flip one ot the famous "1 vs 1" can.

Lot of fun guaranteed !

Side note. Have you ever "generated interesting fights" against a mining barge ?
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#3 - 2012-12-05 03:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Sutha Moliko wrote:
You are correct. Can flipping is dead. There is no way to prevent the miner to take his ore back except by stealing it. In such case, you don't even need a can flip. Just take your industrial and loot his can.

However, try a can flip at Jita IV 4 undock. You will get a lot of "interesting fights" ! Lol
And if you want the "ultimate fight", put on your own head a billion ISK bounty, take your wonderful pirate ship and can flip one ot the famous "1 vs 1" can.

Lot of fun guaranteed !

Side note. Have you ever "generated interesting fights" against a mining barge ?


actually if you two box or have a friend you can still can flip. Have your alt/friend - pop a can next to their can - then have your flipping character flip the ore from the target can into your alt/friends can and then bingo if they want the ore back they have to steal it from your alt/friend. Ofc this does nothing for the safeties.

Also can flipping for me has generated many interesting fights - it was the best way as a new player to get controlled fights with folk who were at about the same skill level - certainly beat the hell out of being repeatedly f'd in lowsec when learning pvp.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Jokus Balim
Miner At Heart
#4 - 2012-12-05 05:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jokus Balim
Does anyone still pretend can flipping is about the ore?

Just go out into the belts, take anything that's not your's, admire the clear feedback that the new suspect tag - and other tags which you hopefully will get soon - give and move around through highsec. You'll get what you are actually looking for: fights. And people are more willing to engage if they know - or hope - that all of New Eden can join on their side.

Yay! Fights! Without the drama of nullsec or the frigate wrecking effects of gate guns! Total win!
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-12-05 05:52:41 UTC
We can still bump! Gentlemen... to your machs!

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#6 - 2012-12-05 07:53:25 UTC
I tested this a few minutes ago. I flipped someone, drew a suspect flag, and he just docked, grabbed a hauler, warped out and picked up the can. there waas nothing I could do about it.

Carebears got what they wanted. EVE online is now a cartoon game for babies.
Zedrik Cayne
Standards and Practices
#7 - 2012-12-05 13:25:04 UTC
ihcn wrote:
I tested this a few minutes ago. I flipped someone, drew a suspect flag, and he just docked, grabbed a hauler, warped out and picked up the can. there waas nothing I could do about it.

Carebears got what they wanted. EVE online is now a cartoon game for babies.


Just battle indy yourself up...The only way for them to get their stuff back is to break the indy open. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Rubba Dub Dub
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-05 21:14:57 UTC
ihcn wrote:
I tested this a few minutes ago. I flipped someone, drew a suspect flag, and he just docked, grabbed a hauler, warped out and picked up the can. there waas nothing I could do about it.

Carebears got what they wanted. EVE online is now a cartoon game for babies.


You sir, are just as much a carebear as the indy player. You are just pissed off that you've lost your low risk entertainment and they have kept theirs. If you want to fight get your chicken **** pew wagon someplace where you might actually be the prey. *gasp*
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#9 - 2012-12-05 21:39:10 UTC
Vendec wrote:
Does anyone care?

I imagine no. Now that looting yellow wrecks gives you a suspect flag, anyone can shoot at you if you loot something that isn't yours. I imagine if you loot a wreck and then go hang out near a station, you'll get all the fight you want. They only people that are probably upset with this are those who hope to get easy kills on newbie miners. I mean, who flips cans for ore?

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Zedrik Cayne
Standards and Practices
#10 - 2012-12-06 03:35:42 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
Vendec wrote:
Does anyone care?

I imagine no. Now that looting yellow wrecks gives you a suspect flag, anyone can shoot at you if you loot something that isn't yours. I imagine if you loot a wreck and then go hang out near a station, you'll get all the fight you want. They only people that are probably upset with this are those who hope to get easy kills on newbie miners. I mean, who flips cans for ore?


I used to. You'd be surprised at how profitable it can be. Especially ice back in the days before orcas.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-12-06 03:37:34 UTC
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:
Vendec wrote:
Does anyone care?

I imagine no. Now that looting yellow wrecks gives you a suspect flag, anyone can shoot at you if you loot something that isn't yours. I imagine if you loot a wreck and then go hang out near a station, you'll get all the fight you want. They only people that are probably upset with this are those who hope to get easy kills on newbie miners. I mean, who flips cans for ore?


I might get into a vaga and do it now because they look so sexy... everyone can watch my super sexy ass running the hell away Cool

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-06 08:13:53 UTC
ihcn wrote:
I tested this a few minutes ago. I flipped someone, drew a suspect flag, and he just docked, grabbed a hauler, warped out and picked up the can. there waas nothing I could do about it.

Carebears got what they wanted. EVE online is now a cartoon game for babies.



Come to lowsec we will show you cartoon game, baby.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Vihura
Vihura Cor
#13 - 2012-12-06 11:05:00 UTC
What if i put in can miner ore and 1 MY antimatter charge ? if he dont notice and take all will it flag him QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion
Cassiel Angelica
The Bacon Brothers
#14 - 2012-12-06 14:04:20 UTC
Vihura wrote:
What if i put in can miner ore and 1 MY antimatter charge ? if he dont notice and take all will it flag him QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion

Even if he clicks loot all, if his safety is on, it'll just loot his stuff and not urs. Thus giving him his **** back and leaving anything of yours still in the can.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#15 - 2012-12-06 14:05:24 UTC
Vihura wrote:
What if i put in can miner ore and 1 MY antimatter charge ? if he dont notice and take all will it flag him QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion



Its not about who owns the ore, its who owns the can. You can legally take from cans/wrecks who's owners are flashy red to you (suspects, criminals, wartargets, etc.) If you are a suspect ownership of your cans is forfeit and anyone can legally take from them. If you flip a can the only way to get aggro on the cans owner is if they shoot at you.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-12-06 14:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ristlin Wakefield
ihcn wrote:
I tested this a few minutes ago. I flipped someone, drew a suspect flag, and he just docked, grabbed a hauler, warped out and picked up the can. there waas nothing I could do about it.

Carebears got what they wanted. EVE online is now a cartoon game for babies.


"Nothing I could do about it." Not too long ago you'd respond with something like "you mad carebear?!?"

Your baby TEARS ARE SO GOOD! Lol

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#17 - 2012-12-06 19:43:27 UTC
The mining barge changes and the new crimewatch killed can flipping.

The Tears Must Flow
Riker Atros
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-06 20:43:59 UTC
well how much ore capacity did they ad to the ships like hulk, it used to be about 8500 and a jet can was 27K so you can see why ud use one, but even still if you haave a ship that can take 2 or 3 jet cans from space, then after filling up three jet cans etc etc..
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-12-07 06:22:38 UTC
Riker Atros wrote:
well how much ore capacity did they add to the ships like hulk, it used to be about 8500 and a jet can was 27K so you can see why you'd use one, but even still if you have a ship that can take 2 or 3 jet cans from space, then after filling up three jet cans etc etc..

A Retriever can hold a jetcan worth of ore in the ore hold with high enough mining barge skills. The Hulk/Covetors hold about 1/3 of a jet can and a Procurer holds about 1/2 jetcan of ore.

The barges/exhumers are intended for different roles: Retriever while soloing, Covetors in an orca fleet, and while Procurers/Skiffs are intended for solo mining, they're usually bait.