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NPC Tracking Disruption Feedback

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Snoodaard Thrasy
Yulai Guard
#21 - 2012-12-05 13:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Snoodaard Thrasy
There are of course ways to get around the new TD effects. Go missiles, go fast ships to get to 0. What I wonder though is if it was CCP's intention to make the Marauders (and any other non speed based turret boat) totally useless against Sansha. There are some instances where you can manage killing off some of the TD rats before they get out of (in the case of the optimal of my guns with scorch) 7km range, but in most cases you're totally screwed.

Bottom line is that it's now impossible to rat in most turret based ships against Sansha solo. If this is CCP's intention, I suppose I can live with it and work around it, if not: fix it.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-12-05 13:58:50 UTC
the only annoying thing about this whole ordeal is that angels (the same faction that aligns perfectly with the strengths of the strongest mission boat) do not have any ewar to speak of. frankly, i do not see any reason to mission anywhere other than minmatar space any more, which is a pity.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Lugalzagezi666
#23 - 2012-12-05 14:03:54 UTC
Get cnr/golem or move to minmatar space (lolpainters).
But yeah, turret ships are now complete joke against tds.
Kraven90
Skynet Security Division
#24 - 2012-12-05 14:36:30 UTC
i live in providence as well and the new tracking disruption has become a major issue for my abaddon now, since i don't have any missile skills my only options are to use 2 tracking computer with cap booster on the abaddon or use a nightmare.

i don't like both options and i think the new tracking disruption has to be looked into. The change for PVE is too drastic in my opinion.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#25 - 2012-12-05 14:42:22 UTC
Kraven90 wrote:
i live in providence as well and the new tracking disruption has become a major issue for my abaddon now, since i don't have any missile skills my only options are to use 2 tracking computer with cap booster on the abaddon or use a nightmare.

i don't like both options and i think the new tracking disruption has to be looked into. The change for PVE is too drastic in my opinion.

I'm using a nightmare right now and it doesn't solve the issue. From the information I have had from other people living in Provi no turret ships are having luck without major changes to fits for tracking.

I don't mind a harder time but the changes have gone from almost nothing to crippling in a single patch, half the strength of them now might be fine, though I am not sure what level it was at before.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#26 - 2012-12-05 17:31:24 UTC
I use mach + rattlesnake in Blood Raider Space, the only real problem I have is when small npcs get too close i sometimes lose small drones killing them. Because it's a mach (autocannons) the TDing has less of an effect on me, also I have like 9 entries deployed between the 2 ships (for the most part the mach with a target painter holds the aggro off the sentry drones).

its a bad situation, but I suggest trying losing a tracking comp for a target painter and try avoiding using light drones all together. My mach/'snake set up is having fewer problems with blood raiders even getting neuted at TD'd.

for a single ship i don't know what to suggest, perhaps my dual boxing makes it easier.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#27 - 2012-12-05 17:40:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

its a bad situation, but I suggest trying losing a tracking comp for a target painter and try avoiding using light drones all together. My mach/'snake set up is having fewer problems with blood raiders even getting neuted at TD'd.

for a single ship i don't know what to suggest, perhaps my dual boxing makes it easier.


Not sure how a Target Painter will help when the optimal range and falloff of the guns is below their orbit. Issue's seem to be that more than the tracking itself.

Second point is true, but I shouldn't have to pay for a second account in EVE just to run PVE content on my own.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-12-05 17:43:10 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

its a bad situation, but I suggest trying losing a tracking comp for a target painter and try avoiding using light drones all together. My mach/'snake set up is having fewer problems with blood raiders even getting neuted at TD'd.

for a single ship i don't know what to suggest, perhaps my dual boxing makes it easier.


Not sure how a Target Painter will help when the optimal range and falloff of the guns is below their orbit. Issue's seem to be that more than the tracking itself.

Second point is true, but I shouldn't have to pay for a second account in EVE just to run PVE content on my own.


The target painter is EWAR, it's main use is to increase the amount of threat your ship is doing in hope of getting the npcs to ignore your drones when you have them out. That's the new system, threat management, soif you can manage the amount of threat you put out, at least you can let your drones out to kill tacking npc frigs.

Other than that, the TP doesn't help, TPing a battleship is useless unless you are shooting capital ship guns at it.
Pyrex Bandur
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-12-05 18:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Pyrex Bandur
Jenn aSide wrote:
Turelus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

its a bad situation, but I suggest trying losing a tracking comp for a target painter and try avoiding using light drones all together. My mach/'snake set up is having fewer problems with blood raiders even getting neuted at TD'd.

for a single ship i don't know what to suggest, perhaps my dual boxing makes it easier.


Not sure how a Target Painter will help when the optimal range and falloff of the guns is below their orbit. Issue's seem to be that more than the tracking itself.

Second point is true, but I shouldn't have to pay for a second account in EVE just to run PVE content on my own.


The target painter is EWAR, it's main use is to increase the amount of threat your ship is doing in hope of getting the npcs to ignore your drones when you have them out. That's the new system, threat management, soif you can manage the amount of threat you put out, at least you can let your drones out to kill tacking npc frigs.

Other than that, the TP doesn't help, TPing a battleship is useless unless you are shooting capital ship guns at it.


But the main problem are the BS or elite cruiser/BC who TD and killing them with drones only on a turret-based not drone based ship takes forever if they can even break their tank.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2012-12-05 18:39:47 UTC
From the feed back thread:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Quickly coming here to let you guys know the reports mentioning NPCs using tracking disruption too often are being looked at.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#31 - 2012-12-05 18:49:10 UTC
Thank you Jenn

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
vice vortex
Autopsy
#32 - 2012-12-05 20:55:12 UTC
I fly an apoc navy issue (usually pulse fit with tracking comp x1 and enhancer x1
all going fine until i met beast lord/savage lord spawn, couldnt touch them for **** tried several different ammo types including radio and couldnt hit them at all at point blank range,

today i decided to refit my apoc to beam fit with radio ammo
still cant hit them with the hacked disrupters

also i read alot of dominix players are having troubles losing drones so
I decided to try and get them to aggress my drones giving me some leeway to shoot them, did it work for the turret pilot, NO
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#33 - 2012-12-05 21:03:53 UTC
It doesn't seem to be much worse than sensor damps or ECM to be fair.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-12-05 21:07:40 UTC
Having a hell of a hard time with sansha/angels now.
Running Paladin with TE, 2 TC and 5% tracking imp
vs Sansha
Tachs can still hit those battleships that orbit at 44km(if you use optimal and ultraviolet) but cant do anything about closer range cruisers(even with gleam)
Pulses can hit those closer cruisers but cant reach those 44km battleships.

vs Angels
Why even bother, dps is just **** and you get the full room aggro on warp in.

Also got a Vargur with 2 TE and 2 TC using AC 800s and i just can't do the angel 2nd pocket in WC, too much dps(even with my deadspace fit)

Lets see here.....I've got 12.2m SP in gunnery and marauders at 5.

WC is going to be a suicide for anyone with t1 battleships......
vlad0821 Artwik
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-12-05 22:00:53 UTC
Nicolai Xperte wrote:
Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.


even with autocanons you will have a hard time, the tracking disruptors does really afect them. i was manually keeping my transversal and barely hitting battleships at close range, guess sansha space, especially provi is even more worthless now, no moons, no good neg sec status (sanctums, havens) and now no rats to shoot couse you can hit them, guess now we will maybe become good at pvp couse rating is now a waste of time \o/ ohh wait i can try mining also :p
but seriusly TD needs a fix
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#36 - 2012-12-05 22:25:35 UTC
Just a quick note: I still don't know why pilots cling to their transversal like its some sort of religion. When fighting TD's, even in PVP, you need speed to close the new range gap (MWD), and you have to keep your angular velocity down to a minimum. That means you actually have to...you know...maneuver your ship optimally.

After you are disrupted, you need to show info on your guns...if your tracking is greater than your angular velocity then that equals fun times (provided you are in range obviously). Most still fail to realize this...even now.

Transversal is good for showing your own defensive profile in relation to that ship/object...but if you are worried about actually hitting stuff, you need to know how your angular velocity matches up with the tracking of your guns.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Averyia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-12-06 18:46:25 UTC
I imagine i'll have to switch to a raven or tengu now. Or i'll switch from a battleship to a t2/t3 cruiser and use close range setups.

All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities.
Larloch TheAncient
Freindly Mining Corporation
#38 - 2012-12-06 18:57:35 UTC
Last night we ran some mag sites and 1 sansha fortress.


My hurricane (4x Gyro/2x TE) was Disrupted to 200M optimal and 1.5km falloff.


Was going to invest in a loki to solo run these plexes (AB/Arty fit) but with TD's the way they are there's not really a point.


I don't see how anything other than a very careful Sentry drone user could do anything in the Sansha plexes (especially if Missiles are affected by TD's soon)


The tengu is still the king in stain.
vice vortex
Autopsy
#39 - 2012-12-06 19:42:18 UTC
we shoould be able to fly ships we trained for and not be forced to fly tengus n **** i want my sp back!
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#40 - 2012-12-06 19:42:50 UTC
My corp lives in Providence and we're having the exact same issues. Some of our more junior pilots can't even rat in the belts because of the excessive Tracking Disruption.

The problem isn't 'oh, fit more tracking enchancers+computers and better ammo'. It's 'even if you're using the best ammo and maximum tracking enhancement, you're still boned'- it's broken, plain and simple. Pilots with max skills in gunnery and related support skills are having just as much trouble as newbs.

The only options around this issue, currently, are non-tracking based weapons- drones and missiles. All turreted ships are ineffective against tracking disruption NPCs to the point of being useless.