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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
WheatGrass
#641 - 2012-12-05 17:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: WheatGrass
Congratulations to you, CCP, for accomplishing such a major roll-out with apparently few hiccups.

Some ideas readily came to mind after my first Tranquility experience with Retribution. They are as follows:
1) When looting a wreck, the contents of the wreck are shown. When those contents are removed and placed into the cargo hold of a capsuleer's ship, the User Interface changes to show the contents of the capsuleer's own cargo hold. Such behavior is inappropriate since the capsuleer will likely already have a window open showing the cargo hold contents. It would be preferable for the U.I. to do what the end user requested -not something else and not something extra. The U.I. should maintain focus on the contents of the wreck. (Edit... This isn't happening anymore. It might have been due to the "Always show full tree" option.)

2)Placing a bounty on a non-criminal should be a criminal offense -resulting in a flagged status and security level reduction for the duration of the bounty.

3)I had just started getting used to the tree type navigation for accessing assets when this happened...
"....The icons for collapsing and expanding the Index Tree and Filters has been changed so that it is not confused with the Back and Forward buttons". Those icons were helpful. I did not find them confusing and would appreciate that functionality returned. (Edit... Per post #660, this is not an issue.)

4)When mining veldspar, I don't need the word "targeted" flashing at 50 cycles per second on the targeted rock in space. Using an older display with 60Hz back-lighting is bad enough. Oh, wait. You've fixed that already.

Thank you.
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#642 - 2012-12-05 17:50:09 UTC
Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets


Oh your tears where the sweetest...
a). PVE

1. Clearly you didn't look at HAM's they're the **** now.
2. Agreed must admit drones are slightly ******.
3. More Drones, yada yada yada...
4. Really, I use a Tengu and Proteus and they're a piece of ****, fly a real ship.
6. That'll teach you not to fit a backup plan like a gun or something incase of that.
7. Officer fit PVP Dominix Navies?
8. Don't use marauders then?

b). PVP
1. That's why most of them have been adjusted to be more useful with other types of missiles, like HAM's, also HML's are still good.
2. The Drake is a pathetic piece of metal, most boring ship in eve.
3. Dude, fits 220's instead of 425's, you use 30 DPS and 1.8km range, OH DEAR HOW WILL YOU COPE.
4. Tengu is now not overpowered compared to the others big deal, BLASTERGU!
5. Your point is, you should have to consider things like that when going for a kill.
Que Zen'Litec
Sarpati's Hand
#643 - 2012-12-05 17:55:32 UTC
So far I've noticed that drones are supper hated in missions, and if a drone is getting shot at, good luck saving it, my hob II's went down faster than i could right click return to drone bay.
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade
#644 - 2012-12-05 18:02:00 UTC
Que Zen'Litec wrote:
So far I've noticed that drones are supper hated in missions, and if a drone is getting shot at, good luck saving it, my hob II's went down faster than i could right click return to drone bay.


They're probably dying as fast as I'm desubbing my extra accounts.
Tara Tyrael
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
#645 - 2012-12-05 18:12:46 UTC
Ok, finally turned off all UI sounds, thx ccp, now i have to have my alt on watch list instead of waiting for audio signal for shields.
(add option to remove the flag beeping totally, not just remove beeps from every 4 seconds to every 30ish seconds... ok I get it, its hard for you to admit you were wrong, but if so many people are complaining just admit it, its sh** sound, same goes for explosion, salvaging in noctis is like listening to sniper shots in very cheap bollywood movie)

Did few missions

Regarding drones, as a almost maxed machariel pilot (specs on IV, bs skills on IV, +6% damage implants, all cap/shield/gun support skills on V) this is my conclusion

I usually never used drones in machariel, from time to time used sentries

Frigates go for drones. Often.
My mach can go almost 600 m/s so I don't care, I can track and kill them at 15+ km and I can even outrun them or lower my traversal speed to hit them.

But then a scary though came to my mind. When I didn't have 3 billion machariel and 35 million skill points and was flying mere 200 million maelstorm in lvl 4 I had to warp out. Often warp out. I relied on those drones to kill scrammers asap so I can GTFO when sh** got serious.

Right now from what I saw, if you have 2-3 frigates you need to look closely on drones and recall them and deploy again multiple times. They might kill one and be fine, but when they start on 2nd one they get aggro and start going down fast. I could manage it perfectly fine after 2 years of game experience and fact that my mach tanked the battleships just fine so I haven't had to worry about him.

I can't imagine new players getting in their first battleships, going in LVL 4 mission, managing aggro, shields/armor rep, cap and drones at same time to get scrammers while they are still alive.
And now with switching targets you can't get more experienced player to take them in first time to show em hows its done since they might die anyways.

I couldn't care less about drones in missions. But what is too much is to much. You will loose many new player when they have to work to much do one mission and have that great risk when doing single mission. Also you can't expect level 4 missions to become new incursions where you need 2-3 buddies to run them.

So, NPC switching targets, yea why not, makes it interesting.

NPC going for drones, yea, why not, but not in this measure.
Fine tune it to disable afk missioning, for example IF the ship hasn't fired in 30 seconds on any other NPC THEN go for drones. Should eliminate AFK mission runners and still enable majority of players to actually use drones for frigates.

This is my opinion on it.

And yea, in case I forgot to mention it, here is solution what to do with FLAG buzzing noises.
Take them and save them to memory stick, make an digital desk watch, put in 30 watt 12 inch speaker on it turned to max with amplifier, upload the sound, set it to go off 5 times randomly in one minute and put it in the same room whose idea was to make it in first place.
Nano Black
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#646 - 2012-12-05 18:16:06 UTC
I dont know if someone wrote this already...

I can edit the Shortcuts for drones in the options. Like "All drones engage..." on Shift+E but there is no shortcut for the new salvage drones like "All drones salvage..."

Its not realy an Issue so it goes in feedback. And it would be nice if the shortcut would go in the next patch Roll
Callic Veratar
#647 - 2012-12-05 18:16:45 UTC
Based on the amount of whining in this thread, I'd have to say all those doom-criers - saying that eve would be too simple due to the change in Retribution - were totally wrong.
WheatGrass
#648 - 2012-12-05 18:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: WheatGrass
Edited...
-Because is was flame bate.
Treya Neverette
HR Liability
Mildy Unprofessional
#649 - 2012-12-05 18:19:33 UTC
Im seeing inconsistencies when you have the "Enter Moving Mode for Messages" enabled, and you dock without exiting. Maybe something to look into.
Alabugin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#650 - 2012-12-05 18:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Alabugin
My Wholehearted opinion on NPC's attacking drones:

As an Ishtar pilot for many years, I have some issues with this. Its less of a problem because of sentry drones - and if frigates are around I just burn away until 40+ from all spawns, then stop ship and drop sentries to pop frigates.

What is a problem...Is the sentries are still getting '******' up. Essentially as SOON as I deploy my drones, all of the ships in the complex will target 1 drone. Ive got about 10 seconds to pull it in before it goes poof.

Here is my suggestion to fix this, and one of the reasons CCP make NPC's attack drones in the first place (I think) - Ratting Carriers (particularly botting carriers in true sec systems.

MAKE NPC's attack only fighters. This will still make it impossible for these bot ratting carriers ( carriers shouldn't be used in this manner honestly...its unbalanced).

There is no reason NPC's need to attack drones...ever - this is not "balancing" the game - infact it is going to probably force everyone to rat in sniper ships with the 100KM Jump drives...
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade
#651 - 2012-12-05 18:22:59 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Based on the amount of whining in this thread, I'd have to say all those doom-criers - saying that eve would be too simple due to the change in Retribution - were totally wrong.


It was never said that eve would be too simple, just that it would be dumbed down, and it has been.
Callic Veratar
#652 - 2012-12-05 18:25:02 UTC
Tara Tyrael wrote:
Right now from what I saw, if you have 2-3 frigates you need to look closely on drones and recall them and deploy again multiple times. They might kill one and be fine, but when they start on 2nd one they get aggro and start going down fast. I could manage it perfectly fine after 2 years of game experience and fact that my mach tanked the battleships just fine so I haven't had to worry about him.

I can't imagine new players getting in their first battleships, going in LVL 4 mission, managing aggro, shields/armor rep, cap and drones at same time to get scrammers while they are still alive.
And now with switching targets you can't get more experienced player to take them in first time to show em hows its done since they might die anyways.


Something very important that you've overlooked here. A new player just starting out level 4 missions will not have the prior understanding that you have about what it means to run a level 4 mission. They don't know how hard or easy it may be. A new player should have learned that it's difficult to break frigate scrams in missions with drones.

The people that will be having the most trouble (and only those people) are the ones who just started running level 4 missions in the past couple months and haven't earned enough or skilled enough to get away easily. Unfortunately, those few losses may have to happen to result in a better game.

If you're not capable losing a ship and moving forward, you're not capable of playing EVE.
Jaangel
Tectu
#653 - 2012-12-05 18:30:47 UTC
with the new compact hanger mode eve is back to the way it should be :)

But can we please have a corp hanger button so i can add it to my NEOCOM prety please :)
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#654 - 2012-12-05 18:34:28 UTC
Coyote Reach wrote:
Syri Taneka wrote:
Sibius Aidon wrote:
The flags are the dumbest thing I've seen. I can understand the flag that delays a safe log out in space if you're really that lazy to dock at the nearest station, but the weapons timer? Come on. So, if you are gate camped and trying to escape, now you gotta jump around and hope you don't get shot at by someone else while trying to survive the 60 second timer.

Overall, I'd say the expansion is an EPIC fail besides the new ships changes.


As long as you don't aggress, you're golden. Weapons timer (the 60 second stuck-in-space thing) only comes into play when YOU perform a hostile action. The 15 minute 'you can't log off safely' timer is also not new, just more obvious now.

Not being able to safely log over NPC aggro is a mild cause for concern, but shouldn't be a game breaker.



Syri i dont think you understand the extent of this.

In addition to the problems youve overlooked i attempted to rep one of my other accounts in FW while it was being shot at by wartargets. I had to manually click off the button and window befor ei could start my armor rep cylces because /o\ oh no i might have my logi alt flagged towards its own wartargets.


Your initial post said nothing about the Safety system, just flags. Yes, RRing someone who is aggro'd will get you an aggro timer. It's been far too long that this has NOT been the case. Now we can actually kill alt-corp reppers in space (they can't dock anymore!), no more 0-risk station games with RR carriers, no more hot-swapping modules or ships at a carrier in the heat of battle (had one group refit racks of WCS' to be able to get out since we didn't have a bubbler on the field, once).

So, the "oh noes, you're gonna get flagged" wasn't a warning about being flagged, it was a warning about picking up the 60 second stuck-in-space timer.
Turelus
Utassi Security
#655 - 2012-12-05 18:49:55 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Quickly coming here to let you guys know the reports mentioning NPCs using tracking disruption too often are being looked at.


Thank you for the update :)

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

GaiusAlexander
Starcorp Heavy Industries
Divinity.
#656 - 2012-12-05 19:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: GaiusAlexander
Anyone who thinks the Tengu is obsolete now, isn't flying them right. Yes, I dropped from 730 DPS to 715, but that is not that big of a change. Range dropped from 112 KM to 70KM, while that sucks, I just adjusted my kite circle of death from 80KM around a point to 60KM. Still kill everything with the same number of volleys. Even with the new AI, rats aren't any more dangerous to anything but a drone. Since the Tengu can just use Precision Heavy Missiles to kill those pesky frigs, I say it still has an advantage.

If you know what your doing.
Mak YuTsai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#657 - 2012-12-05 19:03:49 UTC
The revamp of audio for this expansion seems to have had 'change for the sake of change' as it's metric.
This important sensory aspect of EvE has been altered and imposed on the player, allowing very little modification aside from 'turn it off'.
The game experience is significantly different and for many it is not a good change.

  • Bring back the Jukebox. It was adequate. Jukebox added 'specific functionality' for the user and did so based on the user's personal content. Streaming audio is not an equivalent. If there were 'better players out there', and if 'better', 'out there' really had some specific relevance to EvE, then get a better player.

  • Fix, temper, eliminate the clanging echoed 'object destroyed' sound. It is annoying in the extreme and appears to be uncontrollable. A fine example of genuine negative feedback. You could base an experiment on behaviour modification using this sound.
  • WheatGrass wrote:
    Placing a bounty on a non-criminal should be a criminal offense -resulting in a flagged status and security level reduction for the duration of the bounty.
  • Bounty, bounty, bounty! For -almost- everyone a bounty. Unfettered nuisance! If you want to keep this system, then WheatGrass makes some sense.
Nenjak Vandervelt
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#658 - 2012-12-05 19:07:21 UTC
I'm satisfied with most changes except for one: The new targeting. Seriously, I do not need red circles blocking 10% of my screen in order to see the rats. Especially if you are in an anom with LOTS of rats (haven), it gets especially horrible. Red circles blinking everywhere. Looks like a drug trip, seriously.

Please give us an option to turn these red circles off.
Lenslok Mush
Doomheim
#659 - 2012-12-05 19:27:53 UTC
Just jumping in as a "me too" about the demise of the Jukebox. Bring it back or at least give us a choice.
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#660 - 2012-12-05 19:31:43 UTC
WheatGrass wrote:
I had just started getting used to the tree type navigation for accessing assets when this happened...
"....The icons for collapsing and expanding the Index Tree and Filters has been changed so that it is not confused with the Back and Forward buttons". Those icons were helpful. I did not find them confusing and would appreciate that functionality returned.


The change is purely cosmetic, changing the graphical asset from being two brackets << to being a triangle making it visually consistent with the triangles used in front of tabs. The two brackets are used to represent back and forward so we had to make the collapse one look different. That is all. It functions 100% the same as before and the placement is even the exact same.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow