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Battlecruiser Balance
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Kamenev Drang
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-12-03 16:04:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamenev Drang
With the current changes to Cruisers and Battlecruisers, specifically the powergrid loss for various medium modules (arty, beams and heavy pulses), along with the changes to H/Ms and the loss of around 15% of the Hurricane's powergrid (225 grid), as well as the changes to ASB's, how do you see the current B/C balance changing?


In my (inexpert) opinion, we're going to see a lot less Hurricanes, and what we do see will be Shield and/or Nanofits. SeeBoing ArtyCanes may also become surprisingly popular. The Cyclone is taking a minor nerf with the ASB changes, but should still remain functional.

The Drake is going to be fine, with the Tech 2 missile changes cancelling out the nerfs to H/Ms, though hopefully we'll also see a few more brawlDrakes fitted with HAM's as well. The Ferox, I cannot genuinely see any notable change to.

The Harbinger is one we may be seeing a lot more of, with it's upcoming pwg requirements nerf. Might be a fun little beast to try out. Unsure how it's Tier 1 counterpart will fare, but hopefully, again, we will be seeing more of it.

As for the Gallente, I am even more ignorant of their fate. The Myrmidon and Brutix should, theoretically, remain unchanged, though with the ArmourCane's nerf we may see an increasing role for the Brutix as a heavy brawler. The Myrm, well, she's an odd (and cool-looking) beast but I don't see her changing much, aside from seeing more use in general.



The Tier 3s should be just fine, probably coming out stronger with the various nerfs to their Tier 2 and 1 contenders. But I don't fly Tier 3s that much, so I can hardly claim any great authority here.
HAC pilots may rejoice a little, their days of being whelped by Battlecruisers...well, I don't think they're over, but the contention might be a little less lopsided.
Cruiser pilots, especially kiting cruiser pilots, are going to have it a bit easier against their bigger brothers.


Update!

The current Hurricane fittings are unfittable without grid implants/modifications/low slot mods:

425+dual neut WELP
220+1600 BoB
720+MWD


Post your own experiences!
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#2 - 2012-12-03 16:32:25 UTC
Small stealth buff to the Myrmidon in the patch notes, gate guns will no longer target drones
I know my shield cane will be sad tomorrow, I still can't decide whether to drop a gun size or a neut size.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-12-03 16:32:35 UTC
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2012-12-03 19:03:26 UTC
It's not only obvious but also partially confirmed by CCP as to what to expect. Tier one BC are getting a buff. The Ferox and Brutix can expect an extra slot (16 to 17). The Prophecy is becoming a drone boat an probably staying at 16 slots. The Cyclone, which already has 17 slots, is probably losing the mixed weapon platform. Expect bonuses and layout to change.

Tier 2 BC are getting nerfed. Expect all of them to lose a slot. This would put them all from 18 to 17 slots except for the Myrm which would be at 16 like the Prophecy. Expect bonuses and layouts to change, albeit less so then Tier one.

Tier 3 - all 17 slot layouts, will have their mobility slightly nerfed.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-03 19:13:31 UTC
Kamenev Drang wrote:
With the current changes to Cruisers and Battlecruisers, specifically the powergrid loss for various medium modules (arty, beams and heavy pulses), along with the changes to H/Ms and the loss of around 15% of the Hurricane's powergrid (225 grid), as well as the changes to ASB's, how do you see the current B/C balance changing?


You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.


Quote:
In my (inexpert) opinion, we're going to see a lot less Hurricanes, and what we do see will be Shield and/or Nanofits. SeeBoing ArtyCanes may also become surprisingly popular. The Cyclone is taking a minor nerf with the ASB changes, but should still remain functional.


Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.


As long as Brutix is only good for mining barges/freighters ganks, battlecruisers will not be balanced and seems this was what this iteration was about, balancing those.
Then we no longer will have Tiers but role ships, and this is when I'm happy for having them all.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Kamenev Drang
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-03 19:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamenev Drang
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[

You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.


10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits.


Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.


The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-03 19:33:10 UTC
Kamenev Drang wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[

You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.


10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits.


Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.


The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit.


Well, 220's instead of 425's or 800 instead of 1600 means only this ship now requires some decisions, this is good.
Which other ship had more pg/cpu than it could use all fitted? -none

Once again I think this will change nothing about what you can do with but just bring it on pair with other bc's. Hurricane was far too good at everything: lots of high's, lots of mids and lows hell sometimes for trolling CCP some of us even asked more mids/lows to use all the pg/cpu available. I think this was a good decision from CCP.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Herr Hammer Draken
#8 - 2012-12-04 02:17:52 UTC
BC's are going to have the major rebalance in the next summer update. These are just a few minor changes happening now to BC's. It is much too early to be deciding upon which BC to fly after the rebalance as they are not being done now.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Kamenev Drang
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-12-04 14:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamenev Drang
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Kamenev Drang wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
[

You loose 15% base PG on the ship it self, then arty is loosing 10% PG requirements meaning, with perfect skills, you might as well downgrade some items from T2 to meta but it's not a real problem.


10% less cost for Cruiser arty is great, for artillery fitted ships, but it does not address the issues of brawler fits.


Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

Why should we see less hurricanes? -biggest nerf hurricane got was scan res nerf (deserved), this pg thing is nothing and takes absolutely nothing from ship abilities or interest.


The inability to fit an armour (specifically, 1600mm-plated) fit would seem to me, as a Hurricane pilot, to kill one of the rather popular fits - the buffer-fit tackle 'Cane. While the Shield Cane is going to remain viable as ever, it does mean the ship loses versatility of fit.


Well, 220's instead of 425's or 800 instead of 1600 means only this ship now requires some decisions, this is good.
Which other ship had more pg/cpu than it could use all fitted? -none

Once again I think this will change nothing about what you can do with but just bring it on pair with other bc's. Hurricane was far too good at everything: lots of high's, lots of mids and lows hell sometimes for trolling CCP some of us even asked more mids/lows to use all the pg/cpu available. I think this was a good decision from CCP.



It's a fairly significant nerf. I'll freely admit to being something of a Hurricane jockey, but now neither the 425/buffer/neut cane is very viable, nor is the 1600+220 Cane. And having to drop a plate size and a gun size is hardly a decision, it's just an automatic downgrade.

The Drake, on the other hand, hasn't really had a significant nerf to it's tank, and while H/Ms are being nerfed, the Tech 2 missile buff will more than make up for that.

As for other BC's, again, freely admit I don't fly them yet as I don't have the skills.

The Harbinger is looking very tempting with the grid reduction to all it's guns. The Myrm I'd always been interested in, though I need the drone skills.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#10 - 2012-12-04 14:58:15 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
BC's are going to have the major rebalance in the next summer update. These are just a few minor changes happening now to BC's. It is much too early to be deciding upon which BC to fly after the rebalance as they are not being done now.


I don't think it's going to be this summer, remember the warning that the destroyer and BC skill changes were going to happen after the BC balance was done, and that for those with out V in them may want to do so soon. I am thinking late winter or early spring myself
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-04 18:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Recoil IV
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.



wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc

same goes for pretty much any cane standard fitt.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#12 - 2012-12-04 19:20:09 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.



wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc

same goes for pretty much any cane standard fitt.

Drop a medium neut for a small maybe?

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#13 - 2012-12-04 19:31:14 UTC
Recoil IV wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.



wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc.

That's cause you're asking way too much in the first place. Ever tried fitting a NH? That's how all ships should be designed - struggling to cram stuff into ships and thus having to make trade-offs is exactly the reason why we need CPU and grid concepts in this game.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-12-04 20:06:27 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
MEH, AC shield hurricanes can still fit whatever the **** they want.



wrong.425mm set + 2 medium neuts + 10mn meta mwd + 2x lse II = fail in powergrid.needs anc.

That's cause you're asking way too much in the first place. Ever tried fitting a NH? That's how all ships should be designed - struggling to cram stuff into ships and thus having to make trade-offs is exactly the reason why we need CPU and grid concepts in this game.


Using the Nighthawk as a template might be a bit extreme but I have to agree with this in principle. The 'cane was too easy to fit with all the damn goodies you might want. Now it's not.
Kamenev Drang
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-12-05 22:42:36 UTC
No, now it's impossible to fit with...well, anything.

And so the Drake becomes king?
Perihelion Olenard
#16 - 2012-12-05 23:01:04 UTC
Nighthawk will be interesting in a year, although I'm not sure how it'll be different from the redesigned claymore. Both will be shield missile boats, but the claymore will be faster and have a different shield bonus.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#17 - 2012-12-05 23:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
I want to see the brutix lose its armor rep bonus, honestly. It would be brilliant with a falloff or tracking bonus instead. There's no point in having TWO BCs with an active tank bonus, IMO.

thhief ghabmoef
Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2012-12-05 23:18:46 UTC
Perihelion Olenard wrote:
Nighthawk will be interesting in a year, although I'm not sure how it'll be different from the redesigned claymore. Both will be shield missile boats, but the claymore will be faster and have a different shield bonus.

I would assume there would be a slot disparity, Probably one extra +1 to the Nighthawk, +1 Low to the Claymore.

I also I would not be surprised if the Nighthawk gets exp velocity changed to 10% missile velocity The Claymore might get a painting bonus instead like the HAM Bellicose. Last I heard they are deciding whether to put one on the Cyclone or makes its bonuses like the Breacher. I donèt think it will have enough mids though to make use of it so I kind of hope for Explosion Velocity.

That would make the Hawk a Range Dmg Application Brick while the Claymore would be fast and suited to applying it.

Claymore
5% Missile Dmg
7.5% Shield Boost Amount
5% Explosive Dmg
7.5% Painter or 5% Explosion Velocity

8 highs (7 Launchers) / 5 mids / 5 lows / 40m3 Drone Space.

Nighthawk
5% Missile Dmg
5% Shield Resists
5% Kinetic Dmg
10% Missile Velocity

8 highs (7 Launchers) / 6 mids / 4 lows / 25m3 Drone Space.

Something like that I imagine. If I got the mid / low slot count right.
Alara IonStorm
#19 - 2012-12-05 23:19:41 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
I want to see the brutix lose its armor rep bonus, honestly. It would be brilliant with a falloff or tracking bonus instead. There's no point in having TWO BCs with an active tank bonus, IMO.

I personally think they will Domi / Vexor the Myrmidon and bring the Brutix up like a mini Hyperion.
Lord Calus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-12-05 23:25:58 UTC
Call the press, the world is ending. The hurricane can't have its' cake and eat it too!!
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