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New custom PC help

Author
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#21 - 2012-12-07 13:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Eternal Error wrote:
Recommends 32gb of RAM and 240gb SSD, but considers 650/650ti viable options. Not sure if srs. Otherwise agreed on pretty much everything (except a few minor points, e.g. keeping swap file on your SSD is a bad idea, although he's unlikely to use it anyway).

If the swap file is only infrequently accessed (due to huge free RAM amounts to act as cache) and the SSD has plenty of free space on it (wear leveling FTW), then it's better to just leave the swap file on the SSD.
In the unlikely cases it's actually going to be used, it will barely register (compared to having it on a HDD), and it won't chew your SSD's lifespan noticeably either way.

As for the srs-ness of the video card recommendation...

Let's put it this way, a GTX 650Ti is quite unlikely to become the most serious single bottleneck to FPS performance in EVE, even if you run 3 instances in high graphic detail, each on a separate fullHD screen (should be able to run even 4 such instances at 60 FPS).
Even a GTX 650 (no Ti) should just barely get 60 FPS on 3 separate EVE instances in high graphic detail in FullHD.
Also, since the OP will probably alt-tab between instances at lower client resolutions, that's even less of a concern !

In situations where you can ever expect to go below 60 FPS with such a setup, the CPU will be the most likely bottleneck (i.e. fleet combat induced physics engine overload), with "lag spikes" caused by new model loading (which would be mitigated by fast disk reads and ample free RAM space).
For other games, a better video card might be critical, but for EVE, that one is quite sufficient for the time being.

The video cards have a very quickly changing "performance per dollar" landscape, and are quite easy to replace.
Why spend 380$ on a 2GB GTX 670 today, or even 300$ on a 2GB GTX 660Ti, when you can spend just 175$ for a 2GB GTX 650Ti, or even just a paltry 120$ for a 1GB GTX 650, and get pretty much the same overall experience for EVE in the circumstances you are likely to play it in ?
It's not like you can actually experience more than 60 FPS on a typical LCD screen anyway, so why spend more to not see a difference ?
And in a year and a half, you can most likely get a 3-4GB GTX 850Ti (or something like that) for pretty much the same price (i.e. around or below 200$), with a 660Ti or even a 670 performance level (on average), at even lower power usage, in case EVE finally comes out with its DX11 version (which might finally need a more powerful video card for the highest detail level).

Eternal Error wrote:
SLI later when the cards are dirt cheap if it makes more sense than a direct upgrade.

That's not a good idea for a number of reasons.
First, SLI is always tricky to setup right, and you always have to fiddle with it. Then there's the obvious power usage issue. And of course the issue of finding a cheap second card that's compatible with the one you already have.
There's also pretty annoying issue of microstutters with 2-way SLI setups - the average FPS might look pretty good, but the graph goes all over the place. 3-way SLI setups don't suffer from it, but cheaper cards usually only support 2-way SLI. And the other problems mentioned in the previous paragraph get even nastier. And only a few motherboards support 3-way SLI anyway.
You also need to oversize the PSU, since you really don't want to have to change it just because you add more video cards.

All in all, it's just NOT worth bothering with SLI, IMO.
Just flat out replace the card you have with a faster one, and sell the old one off.

...

Oh, and if you're going to buy a monitor, EITHER get a 120 Hz monitor or an IPS monitor, don't waste your money on a regular 60 Hz TN panel one, no matter how large. Something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-IPS234V-PN-monitor-Resolution-Response/dp/B009VG0Z5Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1354886705&sr=1-1

Side-note: Sadly, I have yet to see any 120 Hz IPS large panel monitors for sale. They just don't make those yet. Pity.


Eternal Error wrote:
European/U.K. prices are awful.

It's the VAT thing, not much you can do about it.
On the other hand, Amazon might not necessarily be the best place to purchase electronics from.
Usually, sites like http://scan.co.uk have better prices.
Not always, but generally.

Example, exact same item, OP's link (from later on) and equivalent scan.co.uk listing:
58 GBP -> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/16gb-(2x8gb)-corsair-ddr3-vengeance-jet-black-pc3-12800-(1600)-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-10-10-10-27-xm
70 GBP -> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMXS16GX3M2A1600C10-Vengeance-Performance-So-Dimm/dp/B0076W9Q5A/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1354735320&sr=1-3

Or, the monitor, almost identical, but 121 GBP instead of 153 GBP:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/23-lg-ips234v-ips-led-monitor-full-hd-dvi-vga-hdmi-1920x1080-250cd-m-5m1-12-ms


Some things MIGHT actually be slightly cheaper on Amazon though.

...

For the HDD, you don't need a more expensive Caviar Black. Speed is not required, that's what the SSD is for.
Go for the Green, it's cheaper. You only use it for bulk storage anyway.
So, instead of the 130 GBP "black" 2TB one, get a 107 GBP "green" 3 TB one:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3tb-wd-wd30ezrx-caviar-green-sata-6gb-s-intellipower-64mb-cache-8ms-ncq


And the SSD, there's no need to upgrade to the 520 series, the 330 series 240GB is just fine too. So, instead of
195 GBP -> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Series-Solid-State-Drive/dp/B006YQ9NY8/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1354735504&sr=1-3
get
140 GBP -> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/240gb-intel-330-series-25-ssd-sata-6gb-s-mlc-flash-read-500mb-s-write-450mb-s-52000-iops-max
It's only marginally slower (just look at the actual stats), a lot less expensive, and the 520 series has no extra features you're likely to actually need.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-12-07 16:00:15 UTC
Akita T wrote:
stuff

I suspect our disagreement on post-price drop SLI might be due to the difference in U.S./EU prices. I'm not a fan of SLI myself, but I have seen plenty of sales/situations where it made significantly more sense to pick up a second card for cheap than to upgrade to the next series. Other times, not so much. A lot of it depends on how much better the next generation is, in addition to how good the price drops are. I'd say the most notable occurrence of this is the availability of cheap 560TIs (150-170$ USD if you find a good sale+MIR) rather than a full upgrade to the 600 series.

I don't disagree with you video card pricing, or the viability of a 650/650ti for a single monitor Eve setup, or two+ monitors outside of fleet fights (or alt tabbing between a few clients). My point was for a relatively expensive build (1000$ USD+), I think you should go with a beefier card. You should CERTAINLY go with a beefier card before going for 32gb of RAM or a larger SSD.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#23 - 2012-12-08 11:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Well, maybe before 32 GB of RAM, but 16 GB of RAM is kind of a good idea these days, as 4 GB of RAM is just not enough anymore (not even for single-instance EVE), and 8 GB is just barely adequate for 3 instances (as you really want to leave quite a bit of RAM free for OS caching purposes, and there's not much of it left of it in that case if you only have 8 GB total).

I suppose it also depends on whether you actually can sell your old card for a decent price vs just consider it an unrecoverable investment, and just how much of a performance jump you need.

For instance, in your example, let's say you can sell your perfectly functioning one-year old 1GB 560 Ti for about 160$, then buy a 2 GB 660 for as little as 200$ after rebates... that's at least a 15% performance boost for just about 25% extra cash added, which is a pretty good deal if all you needed was a bit of extra oomph, let alone the fact you just lowered your peak power consumption from 170W to just 140W (only ~22kWh/year saved at 2h/day gaming, which is not a lot of cash, but still).
In contrast, getting a second 560Ti will NOT double your performance, even if you actually used them separately to drive only one screen each (no SLI mode), since the OP wants to run three instances, not two. And SLI mode has losses, and microstutter, and configuration issues, and heat issues, and noise issues, and so on, so at best you can expect about 90% extra performance overall (probably noticeably less in practice, especially if the microstutters are particularly bothersome).
It would also cost roughly the same 160$ and would bring your peak power usage up to a whooping 340W (200W over the alternative), which means you either have to spend extra cash on a new PSU or you needed to overprovision it from the start (that's extra cash too), let alone the extra electricity cost - at 2 hours per day average gaming (which is a fairly conservative estimate for quite a few EVE players) that's the very least a 15$ per year extra for the power bill (~146 kWh), or depending on where you live and/or the times of day you usually play games, it could be as much as 70$ extra per year.

So, I'm thinking the upgrade to a slightly better card is the clearly better option overall, in this case at least.
Of course, would you plan to play some other game where just a small performance hike is not enough, or if you suddendly decided you wanted to run 6 or 8 EVE instances, then the story changes.

...

As for a larger SSD, it's not like the price per GB is significantly higher (0.58 vs 0.52), and the extra space will help a good deal with both actual performance (it degrades faster the closer to full the drive is) and lifetime expectancy (5+ years is expected for this generation of SSDs).
Also, 180 GB will feel too small much sooner in the future, and it's not like changing SSDs is anywhere as convenient as changing video cards (I doubt many would bother buying second-hand SSDs at anything but drastically discounted prices, and you most likely also have to go through the annoyance of reinstalling your OS on the new drive).
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