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Dont change the 2/10 plexes!

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Author
Ueberlisk
The Hatchery
#561 - 2013-03-08 10:38:20 UTC
Back in the good days this emergent small gang pvp community* built around these plexes in Molden Heath was there to unite and fight against "the big blobby aggressors" of E-Uni. None of that could happen now days as theres no ground to hold... It was kind of low-sec sov war fighting for low-sec moon goo.

*bunch of people that liked to shoot each other.

I still wonder why those sites were moved into the exploration system BUT at the same time they were removed from low-sec completely. They just don't spawn there. Basically CCP nerfed low-sec at least twice. But then again, I never did any of this so what do I know.
StahlWaffe
Doomheim
#562 - 2013-03-08 10:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: StahlWaffe
After returning it's really not nice to hear my first pvp proving grounds got removed. I remember having a good time around Teonosude or whatever the highsec system was called with a bunch of lowsec 2/10s around, and although i never did very much down there, i think i might have flown there several times within the last 1 or 2 weeks to get some instant pvp.
Then again i'm in FW now so i can shoot anyways, although every cruiser there goes 4km/s and is linked and boosted into oblivion.


Bring back anything that's worth fighting over in 'normal', non-FW lowsec. Be it the old 1/10 and 2/10, or be it some new, thunderdomeish frigate graveyard that attracts opportunists from all of new eden in tiny, shiny ships with glorious stories to be told.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#563 - 2013-03-08 17:09:33 UTC
StahlWaffe wrote:
After returning it's really not nice to hear my first pvp proving grounds got removed. I remember having a good time around Teonosude or whatever the highsec system was called with a bunch of lowsec 2/10s around, and although i never did very much down there, i think i might have flown there several times within the last 1 or 2 weeks to get some instant pvp.
Then again i'm in FW now so i can shoot anyways, although every cruiser there goes 4km/s and is linked and boosted into oblivion.


Bring back anything that's worth fighting over in 'normal', non-FW lowsec. Be it the old 1/10 and 2/10, or be it some new, thunderdomeish frigate graveyard that attracts opportunists from all of new eden in tiny, shiny ships with glorious stories to be told.


Yeah, but whatever the payoffs, they need to justify the risk you are taking. It can't make you as much as another activity that you can do while being safe otherwise there is no draw to come do it. That's the reason the 1/10 and 2/10 worked so well, they had a good draw/reason to fight.
Toterra
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#564 - 2013-03-15 16:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Toterra
Just got back into faction warfare. I can confirm... absolutely no farming of sites there. No-siree!

Here is an nice example of the PVP farming-free playground that is faction warfare.

Sorry the above link seems to be jumbled by the forums... copy and paste (don't click) this... http://minmatar.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16794887
Etuura Zellis
Scarlet Corsairs
#565 - 2013-03-15 22:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Etuura Zellis
Sorta like http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16462358 and http://tuskers.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16464058. Apparently copy paste is required for all links these days....

Nope not farmed at all. Clearly (not bots even) Roll
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#566 - 2013-03-19 21:02:54 UTC
I would love to see CCP provide us with the metrics for the lowsec systems that hosted these plexes before they disappeared and now, and then try to bullshit us that PvP in lowsec has increased.

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#567 - 2013-03-21 16:26:28 UTC
Toterra wrote:
Just got back into faction warfare. I can confirm... absolutely no farming of sites there. No-siree!

Etuura Zellis wrote:
Nope not farmed at all. Clearly (not bots even)

Noone said that FW was fine as it is now. In fact, if you pay attention to FW related threads in W&T part of forum, you'll notice that majority of non-farming FW community has been very vocal about changes required in order to remove or at least discourage farming alt locust swarm which currently dictates svings in sov mechanics.
However, FW plexes have provided a lot of nice fights so I'm sure something similar could be introduced to the rest of lowsec. The fact that FW is broken atm is no excuse for requiring another broken mechanism, which DEDs were, back. They should be replaced by something else which will be hard to farm and potentially rewarding, thus a conflict driver. Now, what it should be I'll leave to CCP to work out, we are paying them for that after all.

Anyway, summer expansion details will be out in 2 days so fingers crossedCool
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#568 - 2013-03-23 20:19:50 UTC
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:

Noone said that FW was fine as it is now. In fact, if you pay attention to FW related threads in W&T part of forum, you'll notice that majority of non-farming FW community has been very vocal about changes required in order to remove or at least discourage farming alt locust swarm which currently dictates svings in sov mechanics.
However, FW plexes have provided a lot of nice fights so I'm sure something similar could be introduced to the rest of lowsec. The fact that FW is broken atm is no excuse for requiring another broken mechanism, which DEDs were, back. They should be replaced by something else which will be hard to farm and potentially rewarding, thus a conflict driver. Now, what it should be I'll leave to CCP to work out, we are paying them for that after all.

Anyway, summer expansion details will be out in 2 days so fingers crossedCool


Well I do agree with you that this thread is turning into a blatant comparison of FW to the old DED's, and I also agree that they are being abused in much the same way, there are a few points that need to be made.

The fact of the matter is that non FW space can't have the same mechanics for payout since there is no systems changing hands, and LP to be earned from completing these complexes. A fact that I am very much in support of. What we are looking for is not a vanilla FW like complex which would make all of lowsec homogenous, we are looking for something that makes FW space unique, and the other places (non FW space if we must) unique. The DED sites did that admirable, and like FW there were some issues with the sites that were 100% worth fixing. If you would take the time to read the first 400 some odd posts about this you will see that we have come up with many solutions that break the abusable aspect of these plexes and promote competitive PVP for the right to run one of these sites and just maybe get a DED drop.

If all CCP wants is to make FW space different from the rest of lowsec they have all ready done that. The rest of lowsec kind of sucks now with very little exciting PVP. Like it has been said many times, the systems that housed these sites provided a huge number of good fights a week. And I find it incredibly hard to imagine that their removal has done anything but harm the lowsec community, and those seeking lowsec as a gateway to meaningful PVP.

I Will have to agree with Kane Rizzel on this one, CCP owes us some metrics showing us how all of lowsec has benefited from the removal of these complexes. Bearing in mind that they also made some excellent other changes.
(if a doctor cures an ailment and shoots you in the leg with a gun, they can't claim that you are better off for being shot in the leg)

Sylvous
Dro Nee
#569 - 2013-03-24 03:11:38 UTC
It appears posting is futile but:

I just came back from a break. Since I now have a computer that gets more than 15fps.... in map mode.... I was looking forward to going back to my lowsec life. I JC'd to my old home in Hiematar. Local had a bunch of unfamiliar faces and I think "sweet!" I undock, swing my camera over to check if they are in the 2/10 plex........only to find my favorite landmark no longer there. I frantically try and get the old chat channel up..... only to find it deserted. It doesnt look like any of them log-in anymore. So the removal of 2/10's seems to have removed fun and friends from the game. Needless to say I am bummed.

2/10's is where I cut my PVP teeth. In the early days that plex is what kept me in ships. It also kept me in fights and, more importantly, in lowsec. I used to tell everyone in noobcorp about how fun they were and how they could use them to even out the odds. Granted, that was before they became high-sp, shiny fit central.

I applaud CCP for attempting to remove the farming that was occurring in those sites (hello SB+ hourly pickup character........ you know who you are!). After the original frig and AF buffs the loot drops became too lucrative so I would have even been ok with killing the drop rates. Some folks want to treat them as mini-sov resources- claiming that they should be lucrative enough to make people want to 'own' the system, but I bet they would still prefer reduced loot to what they got. IMO the ISK was never what made 2/10's special though.... so if a reduced drop is unacceptable they can DIAF Pirate

What made them special, for me, was that it was one of the last places where terrain mattered. Individuals who knew the terrain could leverage it to fight groups who did not, instead of having to resort to the standard safe/dock/leeroy SOP that is no fun for anybody. Now I used and abused that terrain, sometimes pushing too far in retrospect (cough*mobile repair stations one the edge of deadspace*cough). Those types of things were pretty minor though and hardly constituted a situation calling for removing the site. A few creative touches, like when the deadspace boundary started moving every 3-4 weeks, would have sufficed.

All in all, you (CCP) sacrificed something that was largely working in lowsec in the name of homogeneity. Hell has a special place set aside for people who do that. REPENT YE SINNERS BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!Lol


[/whine]
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#570 - 2013-03-25 10:36:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Nardieu
Sylvous wrote:

I Will have to agree with Kane Rizzel on this one, CCP owes us some metrics showing us how all of lowsec has benefited from the removal of these complexes. Bearing in mind that they also made some excellent other changes.
(if a doctor cures an ailment and shoots you in the leg with a gun, they can't claim that you are better off for being shot in the leg)

Sylvous


Although I've "only" been playing the game for a year and a half I've learned that CCP tends to screw things up nicely before screwing them a bit more and then maybe, just maybe gets it right. They did it with FW with initial tier/LP changes which caused the alt gold rush, then remedied it a bit with changes in November, only to screw it up again with Retribution. Hopefully by summer they'll figure out what they did and sort it out. One year in total What?. FW peeps have to either weather this storm or give up participating (which some of them did).
Along same lines I wouldn't hold my breath for quick changes in the rest of low-sec. However, the fact that summer expansion mentions all the topics relevant to this thread (exploration complexes, redistribution of resources, new content etc.) might mean that there actually is some light at the end of the tunnel for low-sec.
Robinton Jax
Minmatar Death Squad
Broken Chains Alliance
#571 - 2013-03-28 18:31:33 UTC
Bump just because I'm too head strong and bitter to let this go.
Toterra
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#572 - 2013-04-04 03:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Toterra
Whoever removed this feature... I want them to read the following two blogs...

Kane Rizzel's Not Going to Lie

And Sard Caid's response and sympathizing with it For Kane 2

This is quite seriously all your doing! These are two guys who have done more for the EVE community then you can imagine. Is it really your intention for guys like this to be feeling like they have been put out to pasture.
El Geo
Sons of Luminaire
Sedition.
#573 - 2013-04-05 02:10:09 UTC
PvP grounds my hairy nipple, they we're overfarmed by people and are better off in the exploration queue although I personally would have preferred the were constellation anomalies and not signatures.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#574 - 2013-04-05 03:57:16 UTC
El Geo wrote:
PvP grounds my hairy nipple, they we're overfarmed by people and are better off in the exploration queue although I personally would have preferred the were constellation anomalies and not signatures.


Even if it were overfarmed, Ill still bet they were farmed an order of magnitude less than level 4 missions. Level 4 missions provide both more isk and less pvp content
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#575 - 2013-04-05 07:58:11 UTC
El Geo wrote:
PvP grounds my hairy nipple, they we're overfarmed by people and are better off in the exploration queue although I personally would have preferred the were constellation anomalies and not signatures.


Just in case you didn't catch this (you wouldn't be the first). We were of course referring to low sec static plexes, not the high sec ones. God knows those were a broken system, may they stay gone for ever. However it function very differently in low.

Made it hard for me to get above -9.5

(miss those times)
El Geo
Sons of Luminaire
Sedition.
#576 - 2013-04-05 09:05:09 UTC
Like I said, I believe DED 1/10 and 2/10 should be constellation anomalies and possibly show up on the overview when warped to for everyone.

I believe this is the only real solution that creates the old situation of local competition and gets rid of those pesky sods who sit in the last room farming all day, also some lowsec sites were heavily farmed, granted maybe not the deep ones but the shallow for sure.

Ofc odyssey will be out soon with a whole new system anyway so....
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#577 - 2013-04-05 09:24:42 UTC
El Geo wrote:
also some lowsec sites were heavily farmed, granted maybe not the deep ones but the shallow for sure.




The fun thing about Lowsec Farmers though was being able to kill them with relative ease. Even the most careful ones could either be killed with a little bit of preparation, or could be denied farming.

Unlike Highsec.
Miss Carry
Screaming Hayabusa
#578 - 2013-04-11 16:48:18 UTC
and their ships sometimes had all the shinies
from the plex fitted ;)


mwhaha
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#579 - 2013-04-13 16:50:00 UTC
I really hope with the announced new dimension of exploration or whatever in odyssey, they add something comparable to this again.


Stealth Bump.
Malfyrion
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#580 - 2013-04-25 16:04:04 UTC
I will never yield to silence! bump bump Mother*bleeper*