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Dont change the 2/10 plexes!

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Author
Miss Carry
Screaming Hayabusa
#541 - 2013-02-22 11:55:39 UTC
The only "benefit" is see is that you can now
sell the few b-type shield boosters you have left
for a ridiculous amount of isk.

I mean, c'mon on...100mill for a frig mod?

It makes no sense.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
#542 - 2013-02-22 19:58:37 UTC
I don't always fit 100 million isk modules on my 10 million isk frigates

but when I do I go B-Type.....

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....

Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#543 - 2013-03-01 08:57:24 UTC
Bump for Lowsec Justice, Gank'em Style.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#544 - 2013-03-01 08:59:45 UTC
Angelus Ryan wrote:
Bump for Lowsec Justice, Gank'em Style.


Heh, I was just thinking about bumping our cause back to da top of The Most Neglected By Devs List :)

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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#545 - 2013-03-01 20:18:11 UTC
So I stop playing for a month and it's only gone got worse.

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Rimarole
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#546 - 2013-03-02 04:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimarole
Please bring these DED sites back CCP.

It was a great decision to remove these plexes from high sec. because they were heavily exploited due to the mechanics of highsec. For low sec, it was a very poor decision to move these to exploration sites. The fact that these plexes were conspicuously placed, drew many players to these systems, and the rewards for competing against other players were worthy of the risk, and not excessive for the risk that the players were taking. This was a brilliant mechanic that many players enjoyed.

By moving these plexes to the exploration system, the pvp experience in these areas has been greatly diminished. Not only in the systems that these plexes were in, but in the systems that are between these complexes as the players that competed for these resources no longer traffic the area between these plexes. There was a community of players who would move from plex to plex trying to gain control of the plex timer. At any given time, there were several players competing and subsequently there were fantastic firefights for these resources.

By removing this dynamic from the game, CCP has basically killed an excellent transition point for aspiring and up and coming PvPers from the game, as well as the small gang skirmish type encounteres that these plexes were the center of.

The argument could actually be made, that CCP should have sparsely add more of these types of encounters in lowsec and expanding this dynamic by placing sites for cruisers battle cruisers deeper into lowsec. to provide a richer experience for the player base that enjoys small skirmish type warfare. For the frigate, these were the best small gang experience that the game offered and CCP would have done well to slowly expand on this dynamic instead of abruptly removing it from the game alltogether.

These plexes are part of my fondest memories of the game.

CCP, Please bring these back and add a few new ones (maybe a couple of cruiser class plexes too while your at it) as a token of contrition to the small gang warfare community.


The community believes that it's great that CCP wants to evolve the game, and that they should have continued evolving this dynamic as it was a great source of enjoyment for the player community. Farming is not as big an issue, 1 you don't get a great drop every time, and 2 you are constantly risking ships to compete for retention of control of the resource. It is this dynamic that made these areas a great place to play.




Sincerely
Rimarole
Robinton Jax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#547 - 2013-03-05 06:08:36 UTC
Bumped out of frustration.

Just went thru Bos and Heild and nobody.

Whats the proper channel/thread to start rallying behind a canidate for lowsec non Fw PvP?
Anthar Thebess
#548 - 2013-03-05 14:47:17 UTC
I don't fly in lowsec - but almost 1k likes.
If for CCP this kind of support is not enough - then what is?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#549 - 2013-03-05 14:52:20 UTC
Lowsec outside of FW is irrelevant.
POS revamp would serve only small number of players.
Metrics show nothing is wrong.

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darmwand
Repo.
#550 - 2013-03-06 10:50:07 UTC
A friendly bump from Placid.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#551 - 2013-03-06 14:21:07 UTC
Not bumping cuz Ded's were camped and farmed in lowsec too (by locals, but still P) especially the profitable - shield mod dropping ones. If you want 'combat grounds' why not ask for more static 'anomalies' with warp gates and ship restrictions (with some rats inside and occasional, once in a million faction spawn).

What I'd like to see is more low-level Ded's spawning in explo system. I have actually yet to see ANY 1 and 2's since the changes and I've had a decent number of the 3,4 and 5's. It's kinda silly What?.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#552 - 2013-03-06 14:34:12 UTC
We don't want "combat grounds" designed and given to us by devs to explode our pixels. We want our emergent gameplay opportunities back.

We made static sites into what they were not devs.

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Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#553 - 2013-03-06 14:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Nardieu
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
We don't want "combat grounds" designed and given to us by devs to explode our pixels. We want our emergent gameplay opportunities back.

We made static sites into what they were not devs.


So, let's see, as far as I understand all the whining here comes to 'oh they took our PvP grounds away' argument. So what I proposed provides:

- ship restrictions - check
- potential for good loot (much rarer compared to DED tho), incentive to enter and check it out w/o farming - check
- potential for 'emergent gameplay' - check

So how is that bad?

Sorry but static ded's were just good isk w/o or with very little effort for a lot of people (I know cuz I used to run them too). Their removal actually happened in good part because of the abuse that was going on and now people reap the rewards of their behaviour. Introduce anomalies with rats having decent ISK bounites into them, occasional faction spawn too, what not, but don't allow for it to be a 24/7 farmers haven. Make them spawn beacons like FW plexes do, or make em static, whatever.

Also, to suit the purist crowd these new plexes could be called '(Faction) non-consentual elite PvP staging point'
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#554 - 2013-03-06 15:20:03 UTC
Your extensive lowsec killboard and employment records really make your opinion valuable for this thread Roll

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Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#555 - 2013-03-06 15:41:11 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Your extensive lowsec killboard and employment records really make your opinion valuable for this thread Roll


Your ability to discuss the issue at hand using adequate arguments instead of turning this into an analysis of personal KB's makes your opinion even more valuable... Blink
Also, most impressive KB record on your side if I may notice.
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#556 - 2013-03-06 15:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelus Ryan
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:

So, let's see, as far as I understand all the whining here comes to 'oh they took our PvP grounds away' argument.


Yet another person failing to understand what the entire thread is about.

No, it isn't about "PvP grounds". Nobody here wants "PvP Grounds". We don't want "(Faction) non-consentual elite PvP staging point", either. I am anything but an elite PvPer. I am a friggin' lowsec scumbag pirate. If I wanted staged combat I'd go and ask for 1v1s in highsec, rather than going -10 and shooting people in the face in lowsec.

What we want is a resource, valuable enough to fight over, in lowsec (hint: "once in a million faction spawn" is not valuable enough. 10-15mil average drop every couple of hours is, as the 2/10s have proven), which is not valuable enough for group control of said resource, leading to solo and VERY small groups of people fighting in and around said resource.

2/10s were near perfect, except for the ability to camp the spawn in the last room, although I've personally chased a lot of people out of said last room with spare keys, or I just killed them there.

Everyone here admitted about 25 times that the farming was a problem and 159 fixes were proposed, to boot. The simplest one: Remove the friggin' keys. Make them into a single deadspace room, with a X minute respawn timer and no key. That's all it takes. Impossible to farm (unless you actively fight to defend your position, in which case you're successfully controlling said resource, and everything works as planned).

There, I just gave you a tl;dr for the whole thread, free of charge.

Also, this thread has nothing to with 1/10 and 2/10 spawn rates in the exploration system. I've seen a thread for that, you might want to post there about that. I doubt many people here care for exploration.
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#557 - 2013-03-06 16:55:05 UTC
Thanks for tl;dr and I see your point.
The thing is - the title of this thread is sort of a misnomer, and all the people just bumping it would be providing support for a system that was obviously broken. So if title was "replace 2/10 plexes and this is how.." with changes taking into account all that you said there wouldn't be a single person not supporting you I guess (me included).

Being in FW, I know about the goodness plexes can provide for small gang PvP aficionados and I think they are a good mechanic. So, if re-introduced, these new 'sites' should be conceptualised in a different way from what static DEDs provided. What the difference(s) would be I haven't really thought out completely but it could include removal of site's static nature (spawns spreads across systems in a region), maybe lower but more frequent rewards (in terms of bounties perhaps or lower level faction modules) and obviously all the changes which would prevent farming. There is a lot that could be done in a better way, but just returning it to what it was before would be pretty bad, that's all I was trying to say ;).
Toterra
Parental Control
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#558 - 2013-03-06 17:56:18 UTC
Every-time I go back to this thread I get depressed. If CCP is against farming I guess we will see FW removed next patch, along with null-sec anomolies, moon-goo and incursions. Not much of the game is going to be lest. Ironically, these 2/10 plexes were the least farmed things I just mentioned, yet somehow I think they are going to be the only ones removed ... LOL

Why does CCP replace emergent content with content that is easy to farm ???
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#559 - 2013-03-07 16:25:02 UTC
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
Thanks for tl;dr and I see your point.
The thing is - the title of this thread is sort of a misnomer, and all the people just bumping it would be providing support for a system that was obviously broken. So if title was "replace 2/10 plexes and this is how.." with changes taking into account all that you said there wouldn't be a single person not supporting you I guess (me included).

Being in FW, I know about the goodness plexes can provide for small gang PvP aficionados and I think they are a good mechanic. So, if re-introduced, these new 'sites' should be conceptualised in a different way from what static DEDs provided. What the difference(s) would be I haven't really thought out completely but it could include removal of site's static nature (spawns spreads across systems in a region), maybe lower but more frequent rewards (in terms of bounties perhaps or lower level faction modules) and obviously all the changes which would prevent farming. There is a lot that could be done in a better way, but just returning it to what it was before would be pretty bad, that's all I was trying to say ;).


The tl;dr nature of this thread is shining in all its glory here, which is a testament to how much the removal of these plexes have effected game play (in that we could generate over 28 pages of responses, albeit the last two are almost just bumps... almost).

Randomized spawn locations was discussed a long while back, and it was obvious to all that it is a bad idea given what these complexes were used for. We want a ground to fight on, and a place to fight at, if you make a PVE site that despawns after being run then you are getting just that, more PVE content that isn't generating much or any PVP since the site can be run in such a short period of time and will subsequently despawn. Its the static nature of the complexes that made the fights happen.

Now here's the catch when it comes to making the sites less valuable with the chances of faction spawns (referring to what you said in a previous post), it won't work. There used to be a 1/10 angel run minmatar biofarm (or something along that line). It was a fairly terrible complex with the chance that it would occasionally drop faction loot. Anyone who lived in the areas that these things existed can attest that they were never run, because no one wants to put in time for such a small chance of getting something worth while. My point is that it would not be worth fighting over, and that's the real driver of this game, "worth." The fights you have need to be worth it. More often than not the 2/10's would not drop loot, but they did make good isk when you had some success. But reintroducing a site that is essentially a place for "elite pvp" will not work. There are all ready ruined minmatar outposts that act as beacons in several systems, and they see almost no activity as well.

There have been many and more suggestions on how to fix the broken aspects of the complexes as Angelus Ryan pointed out. It's just a matter of digging through our many pages of content (sorry about that).

There really hasn't been any development on how to improve the complexes since well before CCP Fozzie told us we are all better off now that they are removed. This is not because we are unwilling to discuss the topic, but rather we the content users were so into making a sensible fix that we exhausted most of the good ideas well before CCP actually looked at the thread. I'm not saying that there aren't any good ideas out there now, its just that we have all put a lot of time into trying to come up with plausible ideas all ready.

In short: I have not proposed anything new or groundbreaking in this post here, I am just acting as a reminder that the "problems/fixes" that you proposed have all been discussed thoroughly.
Miura Bull
Screaming Hayabusa
#560 - 2013-03-08 01:55:10 UTC
There was a dream that was Heild. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish, it was so fragile.