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Dont change the 2/10 plexes!

First post First post
Author
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#181 - 2012-12-12 02:47:57 UTC
I believe that the CSM members are currently meeting with the Devs. They have promised us in this thread to bring up the topic. I wait for their follow through in this.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Tavisturus
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#182 - 2012-12-12 06:30:41 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
I believe that the CSM members are currently meeting with the Devs. They have promised us in this thread to bring up the topic. I wait for their follow through in this.



Robinton Jax
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#183 - 2012-12-12 07:02:41 UTC
Bump
Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#184 - 2012-12-12 10:16:47 UTC
Sylvous wrote:
Oh, and as someone who frequently used the complexes as a source of PVP, I would like to point out to others and CCP that the areas in which these complexes used to be which used to generate a lot of solo and small gang PVP has deteriorated to ghost populations with their removal. I am of course only using molden heath as my reference, but I would not doubt that there has been similar effects elsewhere in EVE.


Same here in Metropolis. The population seems to have evaporated overnight since there's no watering hole to drink from, so to speak.

We need these watering holes in lowsec, because otherwise there is little reason to have any fights over resources there on the small scale. These lowsec plexes were a VERY rare example of PvE and PvP co-existing in EVE, since you could run them in PvP ships, and they were valuable enough to fight over.

The rest of EVE PvE is just a horrible, horrible, horrible grind.
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#185 - 2012-12-13 10:00:35 UTC
Still waiting.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Toterra
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2012-12-13 19:29:38 UTC
Still waiting! Some response, any response, would be great.
Tavisturus
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#187 - 2012-12-13 19:59:26 UTC
This thread is not going to go away. We're all just going to keep posting in here until we get some sort of response.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#188 - 2012-12-13 20:47:03 UTC
Dear CCP,

As a member of a concerned lowsec community I would like to inform you that your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Please give what we have posted in this thread a read over and answer us with the following:
Tell us:
a) Why they were removed in the first place (we have speculated but have no real answer here)
b) Why they were broken in low sec
c) Of the suggestions made (assuming that our assumptions addressed the reasons for removal) which ones you are considering and why, which ones you are not considering and why
and d) if none of the above is to even be disclosed give us some confirmation of this so that we can close this thread because right now it is important to all of us and we are dedicating time into something that might be worthless

If you can give us a, b and c you will spark A LOT of constructive conversation and generate a lot of ideas in the community. A great number of us are not contributing to this right now since we are concerned that it will fall on deaf ears. But showing that you are at least committed to taking something that was broken and fixing it will invigorate the community to do what it does best; make EVE better for everyone.

~Sylvous~
Robinton Jax
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#189 - 2012-12-13 22:54:41 UTC
Come on CCP.....

DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
#190 - 2012-12-13 23:25:21 UTC
WTB dev response..... sometime this year would be nice. And the year is almost over.
Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
#191 - 2012-12-14 02:29:46 UTC
+1 .

these are great sites and more rather than less would be better.
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2012-12-14 03:02:29 UTC
Still waiting eagerly for a response from a Dev.

Also hi Havegun, long time no see!

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.

Robinton Jax
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#193 - 2012-12-14 04:49:00 UTC
Lets see,

November 4th-12th.......470 kills in Heild, averaging 52 a day.

December 4th -12th.....142 kills in Heild, averaging 16 a day.

Loss of beacon has had no affect....


You want to encourage PvP right CCP?
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#194 - 2012-12-14 13:40:12 UTC
Posted to Twitter: 10 days 10 pages and not even a "deal" over static complex changes. We're not going away.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#195 - 2012-12-14 18:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaera Taam
ok, ccp... ten pages (so far!) of piwates and nrds getting together and saying the same thing? and nothing from you guys? sigh...

yeah, i understand you wanted to fold the statics into the near-defunct exploration profession. fine. good use for the new exploration frigs. i get that.

but as many have pointed out before my arrival, low-sec pvp is taking a hit with this change. esp low-sec-frig pvp. we tend to rely on that beacon on our overview as a nice convenient place to go looking for a fight that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 'fair.' calling out on local "meetcha at 5-5, dood, i'll fight ya there" is nothing more than a blob invite.

so, not being one to complain without a suggestion for fixing things, here goes...

1. go ahead and wrap the 1 and 2/10's into the exploration side. your work there is done. gratz

2. put back the acceleration gates that used to be in the low-sec pvp hubs. you can label them 'damaged' or whatnot, but have them throttle ship size like we're used to, but when a ship goes thru, it dumps you into a near-random location (so the landing zone cant be camped) in a near-empty deadspace. add some eye-candy; an old derelict station with no collision bubble (so an approximation of station games dont happen here too), some old ship debris, some random spawning cans for the 'hey, what's in there?' factor, maybe a few high ranking faction rats... the possibilities are endless! and look! you've just created a low-sec thunderdome!

3. seed these thunderdomes all over low-sec! lore-wise they can be newly discovered faction training grounds, doesnt make much difference, yknow...

yes, i know building these assets take time, and as a fairly-incompetent coder i know they'll take work... but ive been careful to suggest nothing that doesnt already exist in new eden... it just doesnt exist in this combination.

please, just figure something out. throwing a bone to the explorers is great. just dont jack us up in the process.

-ST

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!

Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#196 - 2012-12-14 18:59:44 UTC
Shaera Taam wrote:


please, just figure something out. throwing a bone to the explorers is great. just dont jack us up in the process.

-ST


We only ask that the meat not be wasted that was on the thrown bone. We are still very hungry here.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.

Altaen
Wanderlust Caravan
#197 - 2012-12-14 19:13:16 UTC
Havegun Willtravel wrote:
+1 .

these are great sites and more rather than less would be better.


Good point. I agree that the strong design move would have been to add more of these complexes.
Borascus
#198 - 2012-12-14 21:08:51 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Borascus wrote:


The statics are still as profitable and are now scannable and no longer static. You'll find the odd 400-800mil plex scanning in low-sec all day.


And none of us care about this, because we used it as a pvp area. Camping a probeable plex just gets bears warping to you. We want combat ships


Sylvous wrote:
Borascus wrote:



The statics are still as profitable and are now scannable and no longer static. You'll find the odd 400-800mil plex scanning in low-sec all day.



Have you even taken a read over this thread?

Our concern has nothing to do with isk. We want combat, not PVE, and we want to fight other ships fit for combat. The static plexes were ideal because the reward for running them was high enough to attract attention, while the PVE side of it was easy enough that dedicated PVP ships could be used to run them. This together meant that these complexes were a chokepoint at which vast amounts of PVP could be found in any system in low sec that bore these valuable PVP resources.

If I was concerned about the isk I would have learned to cope with the new system since the fix CCP has come up with DOES in fact fix the camping problem that was so prevalent in high sec. However this fix has crippled some of the most vibrant small gang and solo PVP communities in the game.


The two posts I made were pretty clear that financial gain is now segregated, and more profitable for PvP/PLEX'rs - you claim that aint you.

I also included the notion of Landmarks / Landmarks-with-bounties which could be used as the new hotspot. <- You don't seem to like the gladiatorial AI aspect.

Unless you are looking for bears you low-sec nobles should be able to work out a nice pvp spot and communicate.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#199 - 2012-12-14 21:28:26 UTC
Why not turn them into the abandoned station marker but with accel gates?
No worry of easy ISK, every bit of an arena.
And even better you could alter them so different hulls could enter, rather than this size and below.
Boom Lowsec just got the buff to pvp people wanted.
If they can get past gate camps.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#200 - 2012-12-15 05:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvous
@Borascus

I just checked your kill board to verify that you do use the complexes and have used them for pvp and can fully understand and appreciate what we are talking about here. Well the truth of the matter is that unless you are an alt you really don't understand at all.

Angelus Ryan wrote:
The population seems to have evaporated overnight since there's no watering hole to drink from, so to speak.



Angelus Ryan has it right, these static plexes were like watering holes of a sort. They were easy, and did have a payoff that merited some level of risk (again, highsec was the wrong place for these), but be assured that on any given day more isk worth of ships was destroyed because of the existence of these complexes than was generated in assets.

There are all ready landmarks around the game and in low sec that people can go to, Ruined Minmatar Outpost for example. The thing is... it is not worth it. Sure you can go there, destroy a few bc's, but the isk vs time from that won't draw anyone to it who is serious about the game. You are better off running missions. The thing that made these static plexes work was that they had a disproportionately high isk to time ratio. Now I am understanding that those against them existing say that it was unfair because they provided so much with so little effort, the issue is that since they were just that, people were willing to fight over it, and lose ships over it. Because they were good enough to make fairly decent isk/hour you could expect that people would bring suitable combat ships to either gain access to the complex, or simply look for a fight.

It is true that the occasional person would show up in a purely PVE fit, but they were few and far between and would learn fast that PVP ships were the name of the game here.

These complexes were a choke point where readily available decent PVE spawned a amazing... for lack of a better word, arena in which PVP could happen.

The issue is that the introduction of a simple arena would not suffice as a good enough substitute, again we come back to the whole issue that there would be little point in that PVP other than the kill. ALl though myself and many others do engage in just that kind of PVP, its nice to be fighting for something, to have something that draws able PVPers to your area.

I hope that you might be able to understand now since you failed to ever experience what it is that you are generating an opinion on.

~Sylvous~