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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove the Titan bridge

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SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-11-30 23:49:56 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Here's a hint: Structure systems that take large cap/supercap fleets to grind down to reinforced in reasonable periods of time.


There are clearly multiple problems. Blobs of supers and subcaps are #1, structures are #2.


You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-11-30 23:51:15 UTC
power projection does not come from having titan bridges and jump bridge networks

power projection comes with the pilots who are willing to log in to fly and risk their ships after a jabber ping

the more pilots you have on standby, the higher the power you can project
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-11-30 23:51:57 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
[quote=iskflakes]Yes, let's bring it down to the point where no one will use the **** anymore because we can only push roaming gangs through the 80 billion isk strategic asset.


Your roaming gang could always try roaming, using gates, rather than sitting on a titan waiting for a smaller gang to come in range.


Our roaming gangs don't use titans. You have absolutely no clue what happens in null do you?


I have no idea what your original objection was, to be honest. The cyno mass limit is the most sensible, small fix to some of the biggest issues in nullsec. If you think the cyno change would stop people using titans, you're wrong. People don't use them because (1) they're ****, and (2) you can get dropped by anybody at any time with any number of supers. Remove number (2) and people will start using titans a lot more than they do today, a win for titan pilots, a win for smaller groups who don't have N+1 supers available to support their subcap fleets with.


Having a cyno mass limit would change nothing. People would use more cyno's to get the same number of ships through & people would only start using Titans more to bridge more people through said cyno's.

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iskflakes
#44 - 2012-11-30 23:52:22 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.

-
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-11-30 23:53:02 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
power projection does not come from having titan bridges and jump bridge networks

power projection comes with the pilots who are willing to log in to fly and risk their ships after a jabber ping

the more pilots you have on standby, the higher the power you can project


You know, you guys are probably some of my favorite enemies.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-11-30 23:54:04 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:


You have absolutely no clue what the problems with nullsec are if you think Titans are among them.



Problems with null sec: Hundreds of Empty systems, Large Coalitions have no incentives to protect their systems from roaming gangs, little to no incentive to protect systems from small / roaming gangs, long structure grinds, lots of structure grinds to flip sov.

Solution: Nerf the Titan Bridge / Cyno Generation.

Such am assembly of great minds had never been seen before Roll
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-11-30 23:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Yes. Somehow if I call for a 250 man maelstrom jump and tell them they have to go 10 extra jumps instead of taking the staging system titan bridge the entire fleet is going to shrivel up between here and there.

We sure as hell didn't go flinging down to fountain before the jump bridge network was formed. We just stared lustingly at it from the walls of deklein.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-11-30 23:55:41 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:


You have absolutely no clue what the problems with nullsec are if you think Titans are among them.



Problems with null sec: Hundreds of Empty systems, Large Coalitions have no incentives to protect their systems from roaming gangs, little to no incentive to protect systems from small / roaming gangs, long structure grinds, lots of structure grinds to flip sov.

Solution: Nerf the Titan Bridge / Cyno Generation.

Such am assembly of great minds had never been seen before Roll


Feel free to attack one of our systems. I promise you we don't need a bridge to defend it. Do you know why? Timers.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-11-30 23:57:59 UTC
Next point of contention: Small roaming gangs think they should be important to defend from on the strategic level.

That's not a job for the army. That's a job for the cops.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-11-30 23:58:36 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.



No it does not, all it does is create additional hassle for players. If a non-sov alliance decides to go an reinforce a TCU of a sov holding alliance, the Sov holding alliance has plenty of time to get forces into the conflict system without any sort of bridges. All the have to do is ping everyone on whatever mode of communication they prefer and a bunch of pilots will have plenty of time to get into the system, same way as they get to the Titan. The only difference is that the Titan allows them to move into the conflict zone as an organized force.

So the power projection will remain, you are just going to introduce more hassle and burn out into the game for a non-solution.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-11-30 23:58:59 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.


did you know that large fleets can also travel by hand ? it takes some time, sometimes even more, but it is absolutely not a problem, and it is a much smaller problem for the big blob entities, because they will have a larger amount of people who are willing to travel a long distance

the smaller entities would be much more troubled, because the one important dude who has to leave early or can't be there before X o'clock can not easily be replaced by another dude since the available pool is much much smaller
EternalFlow
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-12-01 00:00:56 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.


did you know that large fleets can also travel by hand ? it takes some time, sometimes even more, but it is absolutely not a problem, and it is a much smaller problem for the big blob entities, because they will have a larger amount of people who are willing to travel a long distance

the smaller entities would be much more troubled, because the one important dude who has to leave early or can't be there before X o'clock can not easily be replaced by another dude since the available pool is much much smaller


We also tend to stage our fleets as close to the front line as possible so even manual travel isn't that far.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-01 00:01:12 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:

You seem to be stuck in last year. You should probably go back and read some patch notes and actually look at what's happening in null.


Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. Blobs. That's what's happening, and the problem is people can cyno limitless numbers of anything to anywhere instantly. Current blob mobility stops small groups using capitals ever, and it stops small groups competing. It also makes it easy to hold together huge coalitions which are no fun for anybody. Cyno mass limit stops that. It shrinks the massive mega blob coalitions into reasonably sized ones that just defend their own borders.



The real solution is to nerf friend making.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-12-01 00:02:17 UTC
I'd like to note that Evoke are probably some of the best mid sized PVP'ers in the game, they don't really get into the "blob blob blob" that often. If they know what's up, maybe you should listen to them.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#55 - 2012-12-01 00:03:38 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The real solution is to nerf friend making.

But that would nerf us because we have fri---


Oh, I see what you're getting at.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-12-01 00:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
EternalFlow wrote:

We also tend to stage our fleets as close to the front line as possible so even manual travel isn't that far.


^ First thing we try to do is capture a Station System. Like say UMI-KK.

For 6VDT we spent six days living out of POS, that was a pain.
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-12-01 00:12:32 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Here's a hint: Structure systems that take large cap/supercap fleets to grind down to reinforced in reasonable periods of time.



Null has needed change pretty much from the moment they changed null last time.
Perhaps sov needs to be by constellation, not system. Sov holder chooses a system, drops his hub. The whole constellation is his. However.....
Instead of the hub being the only target, once sov has been taken, ihub plexes pop up in random locations around the constellation. Attacker can reinforce the ihub by taking down a number of these plexes, number open to argument. It world require the defender to defend his space, not just the Ihub.

I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-12-01 00:15:22 UTC
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Here's a hint: Structure systems that take large cap/supercap fleets to grind down to reinforced in reasonable periods of time.



Null has needed change pretty much from the moment they changed null last time.
Perhaps sov needs to be by constellation, not system. Sov holder chooses a system, drops his hub. The whole constellation is his. However.....
Instead of the hub being the only target, once sov has been taken, ihub plexes pop up in random locations around the constellation. Attacker can reinforce the ihub by taking down a number of these plexes, number open to argument. It world require the defender to defend his space, not just the Ihub.



So you want to turn nullsec sov warfare in to a PvE activity?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-12-01 00:17:11 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Here's a hint: Structure systems that take large cap/supercap fleets to grind down to reinforced in reasonable periods of time.

Null has needed change pretty much from the moment they changed null last time.
Perhaps sov needs to be by constellation, not system. Sov holder chooses a system, drops his hub. The whole constellation is his. However.....
Instead of the hub being the only target, once sov has been taken, ihub plexes pop up in random locations around the constellation. Attacker can reinforce the ihub by taking down a number of these plexes, number open to argument. It world require the defender to defend his space, not just the Ihub.

So you want to turn nullsec sov warfare in to a PvE activity?

I guess the missioning dualtanked ravens will be able to take us down, then.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-12-01 00:26:33 UTC
the idea to have multiple ways to gain/take sov (influence) over a piece of space is a good one

however, ihub plexes that randomly pop up sound horrible