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FUTURES MARKET . . . . . Nocxium 763 ↑
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Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#21 - 2012-12-14 03:04:48 UTC



Make ISK in the Futures Market.

Simply short Nocxium and get a buy contract.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#22 - 2012-12-14 07:43:55 UTC
Is this the current URL of the exchange?

Because I can't find a "futures" menu nor the exact terms nor the quotes / available futures.

I find a lot of stuff dated 2011 but also a news dated 2012.

:confused:

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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#23 - 2012-12-17 16:39:09 UTC
Any news/information on if this will continue or not? Also is there some place to view futures and what is being offered etc.? I'm interested but information seems lacking.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#24 - 2012-12-17 17:18:52 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
Any news/information on if this will continue or not? Also is there some place to view futures and what is being offered etc.? I'm interested but information seems lacking.


This.

Block has contacted me several times in the past about joining forces and whatsnot but in the end he disappears and nothing long term seems to be able to be done.

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Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#25 - 2012-12-17 18:51:28 UTC
From my conversations with Block about this, he is still in the early phase of this project and trying to gauge interest. As such, he didn't want to code up a special webpage on his site for it. Currently Block is using a google doc site to keep track of future contracts. It is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah53WXW4neIxdEJEeVdyRFVzd1VQdWNwUk1qM2VNWWc#gid=3
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#26 - 2012-12-17 21:59:09 UTC
Block,

Maybe I just missed it (I've read through this several times) but how exactly are you coming to your Low/High numbers for the day? Is the this the average buy/sell order price for the day and if so at what time to you establish this price? At downtime or are we picking a "closing" time for each day? I know essentially the settlement day is all that matters, but it would be nice to see that the daily ups and downs are regulated on the same "clock cycle" as the settlement date.

Again you have captured my attention on the matter, I'm just trying feel my why through this so that I fully 100% grasp what we are doing here.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#27 - 2012-12-18 00:00:09 UTC
Molic Blackbird wrote:
From my conversations with Block about this, he is still in the early phase of this project and trying to gauge interest. As such, he didn't want to code up a special webpage on his site for it. Currently Block is using a google doc site to keep track of future contracts. It is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah53WXW4neIxdEJEeVdyRFVzd1VQdWNwUk1qM2VNWWc#gid=3


I don't understand that document.

Traders names visible? Shocked

This is my second monitor showing four aligned futures DOMs (Depth Of Market) and overview with profit and loss on the foreground.

That or something simplified like the DOM all to the right in my exchange is what I'd expect for trading the futures.

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Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#28 - 2012-12-18 03:15:43 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Is this the current URL of the exchange?

Because I can't find a "futures" menu nor the exact terms nor the quotes / available futures.

I find a lot of stuff dated 2011 but also a news dated 2012.

:confused:




Like Molic pointed out, at this point in time all is done manually using the spreadsheet. Since it is all based on an honor system, all the names are visible.

To participate, please join the Minerals and Manufacturing ingame channel around 0130 when trading begins.


Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#29 - 2012-12-18 03:16:32 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
Any news/information on if this will continue or not? Also is there some place to view futures and what is being offered etc.? I'm interested but information seems lacking.




Everything is displayed in the google spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah53WXW4neIxdEJEeVdyRFVzd1VQdWNwUk1qM2VNWWc#gid=3

Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#30 - 2012-12-18 03:20:11 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
Block,

Maybe I just missed it (I've read through this several times) but how exactly are you coming to your Low/High numbers for the day? Is the this the average buy/sell order price for the day and if so at what time to you establish this price? At downtime or are we picking a "closing" time for each day? I know essentially the settlement day is all that matters, but it would be nice to see that the daily ups and downs are regulated on the same "clock cycle" as the settlement date.

Again you have captured my attention on the matter, I'm just trying feel my why through this so that I fully 100% grasp what we are doing here.




Low and High are base off Jita before trading begins. The rate is established on opening date based on what people are willing to trade at.

Nothing is set in stone; we are just trying to come up with a reasonable system, so your opinion is highly welcome.
Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#31 - 2012-12-18 03:24:33 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Molic Blackbird wrote:
From my conversations with Block about this, he is still in the early phase of this project and trying to gauge interest. As such, he didn't want to code up a special webpage on his site for it. Currently Block is using a google doc site to keep track of future contracts. It is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah53WXW4neIxdEJEeVdyRFVzd1VQdWNwUk1qM2VNWWc#gid=3


I don't understand that document.

Traders names visible? Shocked

This is my second monitor showing four aligned futures DOMs (Depth Of Market) and overview with profit and loss on the foreground.

That or something simplified like the DOM all to the right in my exchange is what I'd expect for trading the futures.



I think this is where you be of great help. Having a format that makes sense across various trading background and experience.


Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#32 - 2012-12-18 15:15:47 UTC
Block Ukx wrote:




Low and High are base off Jita before trading begins. The rate is established on opening date based on what people are willing to trade at.

Nothing is set in stone; we are just trying to come up with a reasonable system, so your opinion is highly welcome.





Low and High are based of Jita what? They are based off of the highest buy order and the lowest sell order? They are based of an average of the buy and sell orders?

"before trading begins" When does trading begin? Say on 12/20/12 I want to put up a sell contract at what time does trading begin? Also at what time does trading end?

If the low and high are based of the highest buy order and lowest sell order how many units must be in that order to make it valid in this instance? Example the highest buy order for Pyrite is 12.2 Isk per unit, but it is only for 50,000 units, which is hardly anything. The next highest buy order is 11.9 for 5 million units of pyrite, a more respectable order and a better representation of Pyrite. The same could be said for the sell order, if there are several sell orders at say 13.7, 13.6, 13.5 but none of them are over 60,000 units, I don't see them as serious orders or a valid representation of the Pyrite market.

So my question is about how the low and high are going to be addressed and calculated, because very small volume orders could greatly skew the opening market value even though the volume isn't a true representation of the market, which based on your formula influences the FP.
Block Ukx
420 Enterprises.
#33 - 2012-12-18 17:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Block Ukx
Toku Jiang wrote:
Low and High are based of Jita what? They are based off of the highest buy order and the lowest sell order? They are based of an average of the buy and sell orders?


The low price that is displayed in the Google spreadsheet is based on Jita’s highest buy order that could take several contracts. The number of contracts is based on Futures demand. In the case of Nocxium, one contract is 100 K units, so I look for the price of Nocxium that I would get if I were to sell about 400 to 600 K units of Nocxium to buy orders. For simplicity, I don’t average the price; I just pick the lowest price after selling 400 to 600 K.

Similarly, the high price that is displayed in the Google spreadsheet is based on the price I would get if I were to buy four to six contracts on the Jita market. Regional prices can vary greatly and are not taking into consideration.

The Futures price is then determine using the average price and the pre-determined futures rate.


Toku Jiang wrote:
"before trading begins" When does trading begin? Say on 12/20/12 I want to put up a sell contract at what time does trading begin? Also at what time does trading end?


Since I have to match prices manually, trading begins about 10-20 minutes after I login. Trading ends a few minutes before I logout.


Toku Jiang wrote:
So my question is about how the low and high are going to be addressed and calculated, because very small volume orders could greatly skew the opening market value even though the volume isn't a true representation of the market, which based on your formula influences the FP.


Yes, I agree; market orders can skew the Futures Price. It is something you must take into consideration when placing a futures contract. However, once you buy or sell your contact, your price its set.

In addition, the opening rate might not be a proper representation of the market. The futures rate is determine on the first day contracts are traded. The futures price on opening day is not based on the market price, but on what people are willing to trade at the futures date.


Suggestions to improve the system are highly encouraged.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#34 - 2012-12-18 19:55:15 UTC
Sorry Block, not trying to be a pain or to pick apart your system, I'm simply trying to make sure I understand it, which as you explained it, clarifies the Low/High aspect of your system, which tells me that small orders of 1,000 units of Nocx are not dictating the price, which is good.

Thank you for your answers and I will be watching to see how this nocx future plays out and see what direction this is taking at that time.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#35 - 2012-12-18 22:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Block Ukx wrote:

Suggestions to improve the system are highly encouraged.


It would require a several hours *talk* or dozens of written pages.
I have no time to write that much, so if you need suggestions I suggest you either condense your inquiries or setup a voice comm talk.

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