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Dev Blog: U and I – Our Little Improvements Together V3

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Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#41 - 2012-11-30 14:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Only if they are on your grid (btw, did you know that if you do show info on ships on your grid in the D-scanner you get that info... that was new information for CCP FoxFour P)


I fully admit to that being new information to me and boy was I happy to learn that! It makes it far easier to figure out who in my fleets have not renamed their ships so I can yell... politely ask them to change their ship name. :D



sooo, let me get this straight:

we have this scenario:

Player A is in system X (wormhole)
Player B is in system Y - linked via WH to system X, and is siting on that connection waiting for prey

Player A sees scaning Anathema on D-scan

Player A links thatanathema into fleet chat

Sudenly player B sees WH activation and Anathema shows up, he clicks in the link in fleet, and if the show info shows ship with player, than that was exaclty the same ship that hes fleet mate show in another system, if not, he know that that player is still there somewhere

Isnt that a little to much info from D-scan??????


To be clear, and I may get Karkur to update the blog with this information, the show info of the ship from D-scan will only show the pilot information if they are on-grid and can be seen. Basically your d-scan needs to show a distance of not "-" or all you get is the show info of the ship, no pilot information.

So this is not actually giving any new information, just giving another way to find the information.

To put it another way if the link from D-Scan shows pilot information it is because the person linking it sees that target on their overview.
So you're implying that for each chat recipient the client(or server) will resolve if the player can see/is on grid with those in the dscan result, and give different types of links to each player for each entry?

Because I think Max is implying it would be the same link to all, and the chat recipient could wait on looking at the link until someone had jumped the wormhole across to the side the recipient's on, and then before they've even broken cloak you could check the link and if you get a pic you know/assume they're still the pilot of the linked ship, and in it on grid/in system with you.
Although you do use the phrase 'be seen'...
How about after they've broken jump-cloak but recloaked again, if you're on grid will it confirm they are too via picture?
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-11-30 14:53:25 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Only if they are on your grid (btw, did you know that if you do show info on ships on your grid in the D-scanner you get that info... that was new information for CCP FoxFour P)


I fully admit to that being new information to me and boy was I happy to learn that! It makes it far easier to figure out who in my fleets have not renamed their ships so I can yell... politely ask them to change their ship name. :D



sooo, let me get this straight:

we have this scenario:

Player A is in system X (wormhole)
Player B is in system Y - linked via WH to system X, and is siting on that connection waiting for prey

Player A sees scaning Anathema on D-scan

Player A links thatanathema into fleet chat

Sudenly player B sees WH activation and Anathema shows up, he clicks in the link in fleet, and if the show info shows ship with player, than that was exaclty the same ship that hes fleet mate show in another system, if not, he know that that player is still there somewhere

Isnt that a little to much info from D-scan??????


To be clear, and I may get Karkur to update the blog with this information, the show info of the ship from D-scan will only show the pilot information if they are on-grid and can be seen. Basically your d-scan needs to show a distance of not "-" or all you get is the show info of the ship, no pilot information.

So this is not actually giving any new information, just giving another way to find the information.

To put it another way if the link from D-Scan shows pilot information it is because the person linking it sees that target on their overview.


fair enough

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#43 - 2012-11-30 15:00:16 UTC
+10 for the fleet window changes alone. Great stuff ! P
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2012-11-30 15:04:49 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
So you're implying that for each chat recipient the client(or server) will resolve if the player can see/is on grid with those in the dscan result, and give different types of links to each player for each entry?

Because I think Max is implying it would be the same link to all, and the chat recipient could wait on looking at the link until someone had jumped the wormhole across to the side the recipient's on, and then before they've even broken cloak you could check the link and if you get a pic you know/assume they're still the pilot of the linked ship, and in it on grid/in system with you.
Although you do use the phrase 'be seen'...
How about after they've broken jump-cloak but recloaked again, if you're on grid will it confirm they are too via picture?


No. Here one sec:

Player A is at the Abune gate in Heydieles.
On grid with Player A are 3 hostiles in Rifters.
Player A presses his D-Scan button with max range set.
The results of the D-Scan are the 3 Rifters, and 2 Ravens.
Player A drags all of the results into his fleet chat.

Player B is in the fleet with Player A.
Player B clicks the links.
Player B will see a show info for each of the Rifters and the Ravens.
Player B will also see the character information for the Rifters.

This is no different than Player A just saying "Derp, Herp, and Blarg are all in Rifters on the gate." Now he just says "here are the Rifters on the gate."

Does that make sense?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#45 - 2012-11-30 15:18:32 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
So you're implying that for each chat recipient the client(or server) will resolve if the player can see/is on grid with those in the dscan result, and give different types of links to each player for each entry?

Because I think Max is implying it would be the same link to all, and the chat recipient could wait on looking at the link until someone had jumped the wormhole across to the side the recipient's on, and then before they've even broken cloak you could check the link and if you get a pic you know/assume they're still the pilot of the linked ship, and in it on grid/in system with you.
Although you do use the phrase 'be seen'...
How about after they've broken jump-cloak but recloaked again, if you're on grid will it confirm they are too via picture?



I think you are confusing who needs to be on grid.

The link will show image only if player A is on grid with the anathema. It does not matter where is player B. The link will remain the same and ill not change depending on player B position.

And btw you cant link cloaked ships from d-scan so you cant use this feature to check if someone is on grid with you cloaked.
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#46 - 2012-11-30 15:26:24 UTC
Thats a lot of brilliant changes, thanks! Big smile
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#47 - 2012-11-30 15:29:38 UTC
+100 for those changes, great job!

Invalid signature format
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#48 - 2012-11-30 15:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
The questions relate to the persistence of the chat contents/generated links vs the changing nature of dscan results and peoples' locations & current ships.

I don't think I'm confused about the original case of the generation of the drag & drop links, but how they decay over time w.r.t. what intel they still give, or if they can be used to infer anything new subsequently.

I think currently if you show info on someone's ship from dscan as they warp off, you lose the option to go via the pilot's portrait to the current pilot of that ship. But with this new generated links system (assuming you produce the link when they're visible on grid) you/anyone can see the pilot even when you aren't even in system with them, let alone on grid. And does it keep showing the same results from a given link even if the pilot no longer owns/is onboard that ship? If it stops doing so, does that not then imply they've ejected/stored/reshipped/been exploded, to anyone reading the chat elsewhere in an arbitrary system at any subsequent time?
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#49 - 2012-11-30 15:59:16 UTC
Very nice...!
Marbin Drakon
Reboot Required
#50 - 2012-11-30 15:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Marbin Drakon
Will the new D-Scan drag and drop affect the copy / paste output from the D-Scan?

Not because I just spent a week writing a POS fitting parser that relied on it or anything.

Eve W-Space: Open source wormhole mapping and corporation management: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=210073

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#51 - 2012-11-30 16:03:12 UTC
OK guys, CCP Karkur is going to come along and explain this as she has just informed me that I got it all wrong. :(

Really sorry, shall have her post a proper update ASAP.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#52 - 2012-11-30 16:04:18 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Please make the "drag from overview to chat" feature even better: instead of "raven raven avatar", give us the option to have a compressed list "2 raven, 1 avatar". Try to drag 50+ ships at a time, see how spammy it is.

I realize that the words are links to show info on the ships, but FC's may be interested in just the number and types of ships, rather than their fittings. "30 ravens, 1 avatar" is much better than "raven raven avatar raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven raven."



Kind of too bad her example did not have a Badger instead eh. Pirate

But CPP kakur best karkur!
Rengerel en Distel
#53 - 2012-11-30 16:08:53 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
The questions relate to the persistence of the chat contents/generated links vs the changing nature of dscan results and peoples' locations & current ships.

I don't think I'm confused about the original case of the generation of the drag & drop links, but how they decay over time w.r.t. what intel they still give, or if they can be used to infer anything new subsequently.

I think currently if you show info on someone's ship from dscan as they warp off, you lose the option to go via the pilot's portrait to the current pilot of that ship. But with this new generated links system (assuming you produce the link when they're visible on grid) you/anyone can see the pilot even when you aren't even in system with them, let alone on grid. And does it keep showing the same results from a given link even if the pilot no longer owns/is onboard that ship? If it stops doing so, does that not then imply they've ejected/stored/reshipped/been exploded, to anyone reading the chat elsewhere in an arbitrary system at any subsequent time?

While it's a fair question, the only thing that comes to mind is snarky responses based on there being a test server with all the information available for you to test yourself. If it does persist, the test server would also be the perfect place to bug it.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-11-30 16:13:03 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
OK guys, CCP Karkur is going to come along and explain this as she has just informed me that I got it all wrong. :(

Really sorry, shall have her post a proper update ASAP.




we are waiting then :)

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#55 - 2012-11-30 16:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
CCP FoxFour wrote:
OK guys, CCP Karkur is going to come along and explain this as she has just informed me that I got it all wrong. :(

Really sorry, shall have her post a proper update ASAP.

My interpretation is that the dragged link contains only the information (pilot info, etc.) that was available to the person creating the link at the time of the link creation. It doesn't matter what the linked ship does after that moment (cloaks, jumps, whatever), the information in that link never changes... no matter who is viewing the link or their physical position in relation to the target in the link.

Perhaps I have that wrong.

Edit: I almost forgot. Consistantly excellent work, well done.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#56 - 2012-11-30 16:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
While it's a fair question, the only thing that comes to mind is snarky responses based on there being a test server with all the information available for you to test yourself. If it does persist, the test server would also be the perfect place to bug it.

But there should be an expected result they can tell us they've decided it will do, and can recite that from a design doc rather than players have to rediscover it on a test server that could be partially implemented atm. I mean, I hope they've thought this through and have agreed limits to the intel permeation. It could well be that the link result never changes & isn't dynamic once generated, that's no problem afaik. Just I think most specific ship/item links are dynamic atm, e.g. showing pilot and insurance.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#57 - 2012-11-30 16:16:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
OK guys, CCP Karkur is going to come along and explain this as she has just informed me that I got it all wrong. :(

Really sorry, shall have her post a proper update ASAP.

My interpretation is that the dragged link contains only the information (pilot info, etc.) that was available to the person creating the link at the time of the link creation. It doesn't matter what the linked ship does after that moment (cloaks, jumps, whatever), the information in that link never changes... no matter who is viewing the link or their physical position in relation to the target in the link.

Perhaps I have that wrong.

Edit: I almost forgot. Consistantly excellent work, well done.



From what's said:

You'll get the regular show info for the ship when you're not on grid with it.
When you're on grid with it, you'll also get the little pilot picture you can click through.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#58 - 2012-11-30 16:17:27 UTC
Daneel Trevize wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
While it's a fair question, the only thing that comes to mind is snarky responses based on there being a test server with all the information available for you to test yourself. If it does persist, the test server would also be the perfect place to bug it.

But there should be an expected result they can tell us they've decided it will do, and can recite that from a design doc rather than players have to rediscover it on a test server that could be partially implemented atm. I mean, I hope they've thought this through and have agreed limits to the intel permeation. It could well be the link result never changes, that's no problem afaik.

I have a feeling you are over thinking this (no offense), but we'll see.

By the way there are many aspects of EVE's game mechanics that need to be found through experimentation instead of documentation. Some of these may not be intentional, but I'm sure many of them are (the subtlies of jump gate, MWD, cloak, warp come to mind). That being said it looks like the intent here is to line things out pretty clearly.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#59 - 2012-11-30 16:18:30 UTC
I do appreciate these changes, they do have an impact.

However, why no changes to the industry UI or industry changes? Long, long...long overdue IMO.

I've posted the same list of changes in every one of these 'little things threads' and nothing. I'm not saying that my ideas are the best but I find it hard to believe that the industry UI isn't a common area suggested for improvement. Or how about doing something so ridiculously simple like increasing the survey scanner range to 30km? How do we get 'on the list' so to speak?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-11-30 16:18:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
OK guys, CCP Karkur is going to come along and explain this as she has just informed me that I got it all wrong. :(

Really sorry, shall have her post a proper update ASAP.

My interpretation is that the dragged link contains only the information (pilot info, etc.) that was available to the person creating the link at the time of the link creation. It doesn't matter what the linked ship does after that moment (cloaks, jumps, whatever), the information in that link never changes... no matter who is viewing the link or their physical position in relation to the target in the link.

Perhaps I have that wrong.

Edit: I almost forgot. Consistantly excellent work, well done.



And thats exactly how i understood FoxFour earlier response - if that is not correct im very interested what is

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?