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Scanning down an Exit
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RingRaith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-11-30 23:48:58 UTC
I know you say you have only 3 probes but is that just 3 probes total or do you have only 3 core plus combat probes too? If you do have combats, you could use them to scan a way out.
Squrriel Insurgent
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-12-01 00:45:48 UTC
Sadly and funny enough I only have 3 probes to my name. When I log in I will try and track down some locals if I'm lucky. But so far the plan is to train rangefinding to level. If I can't at that point I will start to consider SD.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-12-01 00:49:47 UTC
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
Sadly and funny enough I only have 3 probes to my name. When I log in I will try and track down some locals if I'm lucky. But so far the plan is to train rangefinding to level. If I can't at that point I will start to consider SD.


As others have said, it's not possible to resolve it to one point with 3 probes. You need 4 probes in three-dimensional space.
Squrriel Insurgent
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-12-01 22:05:07 UTC
So!!! news news news news...... First off i want to thank each and every one of you who tired to help. Second, scanning anything down with 3 probes does NOT work. Third, all you need is a little luck.

12/1 at 4:30 i logged in and started to attempt to scan down my exit. After about 15 mins, i got noting more then 50% tops. While just sitting there and scanning, I looked at local and to my amazement someone was talking. Jutye Badazas was an explore who just happened to come across the entrance in Mesybier. But he was in a pod, he was out exploring and got podded out in the WH. So i quickly responded praying he wasn't already out of the WH, but to my luck he was still there. He forgot to bookmark the exit, so he was as screwed as i was. So i thought to myself atleast i have a friend in here now. Luckly Jutye was in a pod and was willing to SD himself to get out, which he did and lucky for me he bookmarked the entrance. So he came back for me and i was able to warp to the exit and get out. A whole 18 jumps away from where i entered.

So pretty much the best way to get out of a WH without probes, is luck and kindness of the other capsullers.

Again i want to thank everyone for giving me any and all the help they gave. Now i'm back to Reg space and rdy to find another WH, but with more prodes this time.

Jutye, your my personal hero Thanks.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-12-01 22:54:26 UTC
I hope you passed Juyte a nice fat pile of isk for saving your shiny legion from self destruction. And then I hope you went to the first market and bought 16 or so probes.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#26 - 2012-12-01 22:59:32 UTC
Just 16? :P I never enter WH space without 2 reloads of sisters cores/combats loaded plus 2-3 reloads of sisters and 20 t1 core probes in cargo... I might just be paranoid.
Squrriel Insurgent
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-12-01 22:59:35 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
I hope you passed Juyte a nice fat pile of isk for saving your shiny legion from self destruction. And then I hope you went to the first market and bought 16 or so probes.


Yes I paid my dues, and I bought about 20 for all my scanning ships. haha
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-12-02 00:10:25 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Just 16? :P I never enter WH space without 2 reloads of sisters cores/combats loaded plus 2-3 reloads of sisters and 20 t1 core probes in cargo... I might just be paranoid.


Yea to each his own i guess. I carry a minimum of 2 flights of sisters (16) 2 flights of combat (16) and 4 Deep space probes.

I've never actually lost any flights so it has seemed good enough. Considering I can lock down sigs with 5 (7-8 is just faster) it seems like enough.
Tommassino Preldent
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-12-02 11:04:58 UTC
Im pretty sure its impossible to scan down any signature with any skills with just 3 probes.
How nice would it be if your ship would be able to record the distance from a probe and use it in the calculation in the next scan. It would make more sense, but what the hell, its a space ship game, its not supposed to make sense :)
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-12-02 16:33:54 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Just 16? :P I never enter WH space without 2 reloads of sisters cores/combats loaded plus 2-3 reloads of sisters and 20 t1 core probes in cargo... I might just be paranoid.


Yea to each his own i guess. I carry a minimum of 2 flights of sisters (16) 2 flights of combat (16) and 4 Deep space probes.

I've never actually lost any flights so it has seemed good enough. Considering I can lock down sigs with 5 (7-8 is just faster) it seems like enough.

Yeah. Thirded. I use 3x7 sisters cores, a flight of sisters combats, 4 DSPs (Sisters), and a pile of T1 cores with my covops (I have never run out of core probes.) Even my rolling ships get 8 sisters cores + a pile of T1 cores to go with their T2 core launcher.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-12-02 19:01:34 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
3 probes should be the hard minimum. There's a reason it's called triangulating.


Except you probe in 3D so you need 4 probes minimum.
3 will never give you a result, regardless of skills.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Kanta Kansene
Agentes in rebus
#32 - 2012-12-03 09:37:53 UTC
Nitrah wrote:
It is not triangulating. To triangulate, your probes need to return angles, which they don't. They only read off distances. It works the same way that GPS satellites work, and you need four in the sky to get a signal from them too.

Go try and scan with three probes. When you get a successful hit, come back and post that I'm wrong. In over 8 months of scanning wormhole chains I have not once gotten a complete hit where only three scan spheres intersected. To claim it can he done is patently false.


GPS only requires 3 satellite signals to give a fix, unless you don't know your elevation for some reason
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#33 - 2012-12-03 10:31:37 UTC
LOL at the bunch of people posting ITT who don't know that you need at least 4 probes to scan anything. It should be the first thing you learn about w-space. I thought people were trying to troll the OP until I realized they are really that clueless Shocked

I carry only exactly 8 core probes on all my scanning ships, but then I never lose any. Once in a while I do lose a deep space probe because I have one far out when lurking for people to come online or into the system, and it's easy to forget about the timer when lurking a long time.

If I should ever lose my flight of sisters core I'd still have my 8 sisters combat probes as emergency backup...

.
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#34 - 2012-12-03 14:12:17 UTC
Kanta Kansene wrote:
Nitrah wrote:
It is not triangulating. To triangulate, your probes need to return angles, which they don't. They only read off distances. It works the same way that GPS satellites work, and you need four in the sky to get a signal from them too.

Go try and scan with three probes. When you get a successful hit, come back and post that I'm wrong. In over 8 months of scanning wormhole chains I have not once gotten a complete hit where only three scan spheres intersected. To claim it can he done is patently false.


GPS only requires 3 satellite signals to give a fix, unless you don't know your elevation for some reason


Under normal operations, it requires four. You need to correct for your clock bias, and you can't definitively know elevation unless you are in a boat or have other means of getting one of the four variables (latitude, longitude, altitude, exact time).

But this is horribly OT now.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-12-04 08:21:57 UTC
Nitrah wrote:
Kanta Kansene wrote:
Nitrah wrote:
It is not triangulating. To triangulate, your probes need to return angles, which they don't. They only read off distances. It works the same way that GPS satellites work, and you need four in the sky to get a signal from them too.

Go try and scan with three probes. When you get a successful hit, come back and post that I'm wrong. In over 8 months of scanning wormhole chains I have not once gotten a complete hit where only three scan spheres intersected. To claim it can he done is patently false.


GPS only requires 3 satellite signals to give a fix, unless you don't know your elevation for some reason


Under normal operations, it requires four. You need to correct for your clock bias, and you can't definitively know elevation unless you are in a boat or have other means of getting one of the four variables (latitude, longitude, altitude, exact time).

But this is horribly OT now.


GPS give you TWO dimensional coordinated on a flat map (99% of the time), which requires 3 satellites.
getting a THREE dimensional coordinate required 4 'satellites'.

as a note, GPS also does not use 3 satellites, it uses as many as it can see.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Britney Nolen
Sama Guild
#36 - 2012-12-04 15:17:32 UTC
If you are pvp fit, wait until they run sites. Kill their ships and hope they have probes on it. Twisted
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-12-04 15:21:02 UTC
Britney Nolen wrote:
If you are pvp fit, wait until they run sites. Kill their ships and hope they have probes on it. Twisted


Could work, but ive never seen a PvE fleet in their home system with probe launchers...
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#38 - 2012-12-04 15:40:31 UTC
I have, that way they can have one probe out and look for new signatures without need for an extra pilot. A Drake or Harbinger has a free high slot anyway.

.
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#39 - 2012-12-04 16:24:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Nitrah wrote:
Kanta Kansene wrote:
Nitrah wrote:
It is not triangulating. To triangulate, your probes need to return angles, which they don't. They only read off distances. It works the same way that GPS satellites work, and you need four in the sky to get a signal from them too.

Go try and scan with three probes. When you get a successful hit, come back and post that I'm wrong. In over 8 months of scanning wormhole chains I have not once gotten a complete hit where only three scan spheres intersected. To claim it can he done is patently false.


GPS only requires 3 satellite signals to give a fix, unless you don't know your elevation for some reason


Under normal operations, it requires four. You need to correct for your clock bias, and you can't definitively know elevation unless you are in a boat or have other means of getting one of the four variables (latitude, longitude, altitude, exact time).

But this is horribly OT now.


GPS give you TWO dimensional coordinated on a flat map (99% of the time), which requires 3 satellites.
getting a THREE dimensional coordinate required 4 'satellites'.

as a note, GPS also does not use 3 satellites, it uses as many as it can see.


http://www.maptoaster.com/maptoaster-topo-nz/articles/how-gps-works/how-gps-works.html

Projecting to a flat approximation can make you off by 100s of meters, and the calculations are more intensive to do the projections.
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-12-04 16:39:22 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
I have, that way they can have one probe out and look for new signatures without need for an extra pilot. A Drake or Harbinger has a free high slot anyway.


I've never been much of a fan of the "probe out" tactic. I've seen people get complacent, and think they now will see when anything comes into system... Easy kill if your hole was there all along..
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