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Gate to Gate in low/null with covert-ops

Author
Gotch Urarse
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-11-30 11:11:29 UTC
Just made my 'home' (or at least an extended stay, as I left all my stuff) in null. To get in, I flew a coverts-ops ship in. I've been researching the tips, tricks and pitfalls to navigating thru low & null, to avoid being d-scanned.


  • don't warp directly gate to gate
  • warp to a planet or belt, 50/70/100km away first
  • don't warp to a moon
  • use safe spots (when you have them)
  • try to go close before/after DT
  • fill in the blank


My question is this, if you you're fly covert-ops, they can't see you coming, so why can't you jump gate to gate? What mechanic am I overlooking? Help a n00ber out.

TIA
Merouk Baas
#2 - 2012-11-30 11:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
They know you're there because you appear in the list of people in the Local channel.

After you jump through each gate, you are automatically gate-cloaked. To activate your cov-ops cloak you must deactivate the gate-cloak, and there is a half-second moment when you ARE visible.

If you get within 2500 m of anything you are decloaked. If they manage to target-lock you, you cannot cloak.

Nullsec allows the deployment of warp interdiction bubbles, which means even cloaked you cannot warp away and must travel to the edge of the bubble first. Typically in a bubble camp they are spread around the gate and watching; they see your ship flash and disappear as you switch cloaks as above, and their interceptors fly to the position where you briefly appeared. Very likely to get within 2500 of you.

Nullsec gates also don't react to smartbombs, and there's no Concord. Even cloaked, you can still find yourself in a smartbomb blast and be killed.

If you are warping towards a gate that has a bubble on it, the bubble pulls you in even if it is behind the gate. The campers position ships in the gate-to-gate paths so as the bubble pulls you in, you get placed near one of their ships, decloaking you due to proximity.
Doddy
Excidium.
#3 - 2012-11-30 11:37:59 UTC
In null there may be a bubble set up which will pull your cov ops in either before or past the gate. Basically if a bubbleis in your line of warp and within 100k of where you are warping to it will interdict your warp and you will end up on the edge of the bubble (your momentum will take you slightly inside). The enemy ship or even just a can or drone in the spot you will land at will decloak you and you will die. Going from a celestial gets round this, but only if its not a celestial very close to the gate you are coming from, and only if they have not also set up a bubble from that celestial (a good bubble camp will have pull bubbles from all celestials). Going to a celestial near the out gate allows you to d-scan for a bubble or dictor. If the system is empty though you should be fine warping gate to gate, just remember you may find yourself decloaked off gate in a bubble at the other end so be ready to move and cloak quickly in case someone jumps in.

In lo sec bubbles are not an issue, so the only worry is smartbombers. These guys set in the line of flight coming into the gate and smartbomb arriving ships, popping them in the case of frigates. It is harder for them to do this to cov ops as they wont see the incoming frig on d-scan but they can still do it simply by turning on smartbombs when someone jumps in and hoping enough hit. Warping to the gate from an unusual direction makes it less likely you will be in the are of effect of the smartbomb.

In both cases having bounce spots bookmarked at the gate (usually above or below) can allow you to check out the gate first, then warp down (or up) to it avoiding nasties such as smartbombers or decloak cans. If you have a regular route through lo sec and especially null you should make these bookmarks.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2012-11-30 11:41:48 UTC
As said above, you missed bubbles. And if bubble is on line of your warp it will drag you towards itself even when you warp at 100 km (hence they are referred to as "drag bubbles").

Basically it is a good practice to make BMs at gates when you jump into system. If you are alone in a system just point Your camera straight up- or downwards and burn until you reach 200km or so range from gate. Make BM, I use "gate name-distance-top/down" format so next time I have to use it I know exactly where I will land. Such BMs are also useful if you jump through gate and you are welcomed by wall of bubbles but you didn't landed in any of them (happened to me once). You can warp to your top/down BM and since you will engage your cloak once gate cloak drops (AND YOU WILL DO IT, RIGHT?) you will escape camp quite easily.

Invalid signature format

Doddy
Excidium.
#5 - 2012-11-30 11:51:20 UTC
Further to the above the best way to get out of a camp when you jump into a bubble is to hit your double click in a safe looking direction and hit your mwd before you cloak. Never do it it directly away from the gate as the enemy decloakers will head in that line. Either take a perpendicular route or double back to the gate (but again not straight back or you will meet the decloakers coming the other way. A cov ops with a mwd will almost always get back to gate unless tha enemy has high damage instalocks and get a lucky decloak. A thing to really look out for the is declaok cans/drones which can prevent your cloak from activating or decloak you before you get out the bubble. Genrally speaking you will avoid these by heading inwards rather than out or across but it really does come down to the luck of the draw and where the gate gods place you.

There is no totally safe method however, and bad luck combined with a good camp will always get you.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-11-30 11:55:59 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
As said above, you missed bubbles. And if bubble is on line of your warp it will drag you towards itself even when you warp at 100 km (hence they are referred to as "drag bubbles").

Basically it is a good practice to make BMs at gates when you jump into system. If you are alone in a system just point Your camera straight up- or downwards and burn until you reach 200km or so range from gate. Make BM, I use "gate name-distance-top/down" format so next time I have to use it I know exactly where I will land. Such BMs are also useful if you jump through gate and you are welcomed by wall of bubbles but you didn't landed in any of them (happened to me once). You can warp to your top/down BM and since you will engage your cloak once gate cloak drops (AND YOU WILL DO IT, RIGHT?) you will escape camp quite easily.


In null, groups that regularly patrol/camp a particular set of systems will be able to effectively CLOSE them.

They will place bubbles that will drag you if:

-You jump from a gate to another gate.
-You jump to ANY celestial, and then to a gate.

The fewer gates a system has, the less effort this takes. A system with two gates can be locked in 3 or 5 minutes, effectively screwing up each and every ship (but some T3 setups) that tries to jump to a gate, from any celestials or other gates.

If it's your first time into a null system with this setup, and you have no Bookmarks for safespots, you can:

-Die.
-Hope like hell someone messed up when setting a bubble.
-Be piloting an interdiction-nullified T3 ship.
-Be piloting something fast and agile and try to burn back.

J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#7 - 2012-11-30 12:42:01 UTC
Gotch Urarse wrote:
Just made my 'home' (or at least an extended stay, as I left all my stuff) in null. To get in, I flew a coverts-ops ship in. I've been researching the tips, tricks and pitfalls to navigating thru low & null, to avoid being d-scanned.


  • don't warp directly gate to gate
  • warp to a planet or belt, 50/70/100km away first
  • don't warp to a moon
  • use safe spots (when you have them)
  • try to go close before/after DT
  • fill in the blank


My question is this, if you you're fly covert-ops, they can't see you coming, so why can't you jump gate to gate? What mechanic am I overlooking? Help a n00ber out.

TIA


They WILL see you in local

Covert-ops are still caught in bubbles.

Bubbles are usually also littered with containers, for 1 reason, to decloak you.

Warping from gate to gate means you will end up in that bubble and if anything is within 2000m from you, you will decloak and suddenly explode (cause covert ops aren't well known for their huge tank).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#8 - 2012-11-30 12:45:43 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
As said above, you missed bubbles. And if bubble is on line of your warp it will drag you towards itself even when you warp at 100 km (hence they are referred to as "drag bubbles").

Basically it is a good practice to make BMs at gates when you jump into system. If you are alone in a system just point Your camera straight up- or downwards and burn until you reach 200km or so range from gate. Make BM, I use "gate name-distance-top/down" format so next time I have to use it I know exactly where I will land. Such BMs are also useful if you jump through gate and you are welcomed by wall of bubbles but you didn't landed in any of them (happened to me once). You can warp to your top/down BM and since you will engage your cloak once gate cloak drops (AND YOU WILL DO IT, RIGHT?) you will escape camp quite easily.


In null, groups that regularly patrol/camp a particular set of systems will be able to effectively CLOSE them.

They will place bubbles that will drag you if:

-You jump from a gate to another gate.
-You jump to ANY celestial, and then to a gate.

The fewer gates a system has, the less effort this takes. A system with two gates can be locked in 3 or 5 minutes, effectively screwing up each and every ship (but some T3 setups) that tries to jump to a gate, from any celestials or other gates.

If it's your first time into a null system with this setup, and you have no Bookmarks for safespots, you can:

-Die.
-Hope like hell someone messed up when setting a bubble.
-Be piloting an interdiction-nullified T3 ship.
-Be piloting something fast and agile and try to burn back.



Or make tactical safe spots that are off plane from anything so no bubble (unless it's places on a very lucky position) will be in line.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#9 - 2012-11-30 14:29:03 UTC
If you think your target gate has been covered from all celestials you could try to find a cosmic anomaly to warp from.
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#10 - 2012-11-30 15:08:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
As said above, you missed bubbles. And if bubble is on line of your warp it will drag you towards itself even when you warp at 100 km (hence they are referred to as "drag bubbles").

Basically it is a good practice to make BMs at gates when you jump into system. If you are alone in a system just point Your camera straight up- or downwards and burn until you reach 200km or so range from gate. Make BM, I use "gate name-distance-top/down" format so next time I have to use it I know exactly where I will land. Such BMs are also useful if you jump through gate and you are welcomed by wall of bubbles but you didn't landed in any of them (happened to me once). You can warp to your top/down BM and since you will engage your cloak once gate cloak drops (AND YOU WILL DO IT, RIGHT?) you will escape camp quite easily.


In null, groups that regularly patrol/camp a particular set of systems will be able to effectively CLOSE them.

They will place bubbles that will drag you if:

-You jump from a gate to another gate.
-You jump to ANY celestial, and then to a gate.

The fewer gates a system has, the less effort this takes. A system with two gates can be locked in 3 or 5 minutes, effectively screwing up each and every ship (but some T3 setups) that tries to jump to a gate, from any celestials or other gates.

If it's your first time into a null system with this setup, and you have no Bookmarks for safespots, you can:

-Die.
-Hope like hell someone messed up when setting a bubble.
-Be piloting an interdiction-nullified T3 ship.
-Be piloting something fast and agile and try to burn back.



Or make tactical safe spots that are off plane from anything so no bubble (unless it's places on a very lucky position) will be in line.


Or go around. It's not always possible, but your best chance at surviving these impenetrable bubble gates is to plot a route around through different systems. Though this can sometimes add 5-10 jumps to your route, it is certainly the safest thing to do.
Gotch Urarse
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-30 15:20:47 UTC
Thanks all, very helpful advice. I did forget about bubbles. I've heard of them, but i'm still not 100% sure of all their mechanics, like range and what not. I'll look into that. Couple things I took away to add to my above this would be (hope I got everything correct):


  • Use bookmarks 200+ km above and/or below the gate, if possible
  • Approach from an anomaly, if possible
  • Take a completely different route.


Oh yeah, Schmata Bastanold, I'm paranoid. I'm trying to cloak as the gate cloak wears off...

Thanks again.
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-11-30 15:43:41 UTC
Gotch Urarse wrote:
Thanks all, very helpful advice. I did forget about bubbles. I've heard of them, but i'm still not 100% sure of all their mechanics, like range and what not. I'll look into that. Couple things I took away to add to my above this would be (hope I got everything correct):


  • Use bookmarks 200+ km above and/or below the gate, if possible
  • Approach from an anomaly, if possible
  • Take a completely different route.


Oh yeah, Schmata Bastanold, I'm paranoid. I'm trying to cloak as the gate cloak wears off...

Thanks again.


yeah just get in the habit of making "tacticals" off every gate you have in your route. at least 200km off.. that way when you enter back through those systems you will have a safe place to perch up on a gate and see whats going on at it.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-11-30 18:45:41 UTC
Gotch Urarse wrote:

My question is this, if you you're fly covert-ops, they can't see you coming, so why can't you jump gate to gate? What mechanic am I overlooking? Help a n00ber out.

TIA


Bubbles setup in line from gate to gate with cans clustered around them to decloak your ship. And then you blow up.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#14 - 2012-12-01 01:49:24 UTC
OP, have a look at this
Gotch Urarse
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-01 11:17:46 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
OP, have a look at this


Thanks for the link, nice video wrap up of all the advice.
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#16 - 2012-12-03 15:59:02 UTC
Casirio wrote:
yeah just get in the habit of making "tacticals" off every gate you have in your route. at least 200km off.. that way when you enter back through those systems you will have a safe place to perch up on a gate and see whats going on at it.


If the route that you typically travel includes a stargate that is so far out of system that it is outside d-scan range from any other celestial, it is very worth it to make a safe spot near but off grid of the gate, as well as one 200 km off of the gate.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#17 - 2012-12-03 17:28:35 UTC
Honestly, if you grab a fast-warping ship the covops cloak will let you warp gate-to-gate if you really want, as you'll be able to escape most of the trouble you get into with a fast reaction time and the patience to fly out of the bubble the slow way while avoiding ships and obstacles.

You should never do it with a valuable cargo (in fact, you shouldn't ever run your blockade runner through systems you haven't mapped out with gate-safes and deep safes in advance), but in all honesty you can replace a basic stealth bomber with a couple tens of millions of isk, so the risk you're taking by doing it the fast and lazy way is fairly commensurate to the amount of time you're saving unless you've got some other reason to be extra terrified of dying.

As with everything, how much getting blown up occasionally bothers you impacts how much risk you can take.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2012-12-04 00:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I think the furthest I've gone in nulsec in an uncloaked rookie ship is around 46 jumps.

I didn't warp gate-to-gate, and avoided all drag bubbles. [Don't warp to a moon in anything larger than a frigate.]

The one bubble on a gate that I jumped into couldn't be avoided, and I got caught, and then I made a mistake which sealed my fate: I forgot about combat timers, and my attackers forgot about applying points because of the bubble, so I could have jumped out of the system safely after I left the bubble, but instead I warped around the system until I had recovered some shield before I jumped out... and I got caught by an interceptor that followed me through the gate.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-12-04 05:49:42 UTC
Not a combat timer: Session change timer. Having that on your screen is invaluable to gatecrashers.
Daak Elibrium
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-12-04 08:26:57 UTC
Even in LowSec. Don't warp gate to gate.
There could be a couple of smartbombers between gateA <- smartbombs -> gateB, think its called pipe-bombing, and you will just noticed them, and then be back home in your clonevat.

Learned that the hardway.
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