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Dev blog: Corp Hangars on ships and You

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Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-11-30 13:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
can you make the deadspace transports the unscannable ones instead of the blockade runners?

having a cloak makes it enough that they will never be scanned anyways.

Also, it makes the deadspace haulers even less useful if you buff the blockade runners everyone flies through dangerous space.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#62 - 2012-11-30 14:00:12 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
so you just removed the single most important use of orcas, hauling for mining fleets

not cool


How did we remove that?


i think a lot of people are scratching their heads as to how this guy got to that conclusion... maybe he thinks his orca will be ganked all the time with the amount of trit he's carrying/hauling for a mining fleet.

ohh if only he knew how gankers operate! LOL


The best I can come up with is that he thinks the Orca will be rendered obsolete by using freighters to pick up ore from Orca's? That is the best i can come up with and I think that is just crazy. Why would you use a freighter to do that instead of another Orca or industrial ship. Sure the freighter can carry more, but its align, warp, movement, and bump factor all make it a far worse choice.


i can partially understand the freighter is a bigger hauler and can now pick stuff up in space part, but surely the main advatage to a mining fleet in belts etc.. is its extended tractor beam range that can pull in jet canned ore from a distance meaning less moving around in big clunky ships? fairly certain i read the devblog properly and didnt see anything about freighters using capital tractor beams or anything like that.
(i know the changes to mining barges means u dont jetcan mine any more but when ur hold is full, jet can it and ur orca pilot should pull it in and voila.)
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-11-30 14:05:25 UTC
Quote:
i can partially understand the freighter is a bigger hauler and can now pick stuff up in space part, but surely the main advatage to a mining fleet in belts etc.. is its extended tractor beam range that can pull in jet canned ore from a distance meaning less moving around in big clunky ships? fairly certain i read the devblog properly and didnt see anything about freighters using capital tractor beams or anything like that.


now: one orca for tractor beams and bonuses, one freighter for hauling
before: one orca for tractor beams and bonuses, X orcas for hauling
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#64 - 2012-11-30 14:07:51 UTC
While large corps use mining buddy small corps still use the divisions as an accounting device. In game contracts for ore delivered to a hanger would close this gap.

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See you around the universe.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-11-30 14:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
The freighter can carry MUCH more which means it is now the only viable choise for fleet mining. Sure, it's still fine for "solo" mining with a couple of alts. But when you have a dozen of ppl stripping the belt or gravy site - hauling Orca is totally useless now.
Just explain - why? What was the backgroud of that decision?

You are right, if you ignore align time, acceleration, gang links and tractor beams. I'm not sure you've ever mined with a full set (or at least 2) mining links. This boosts your output by more than 30% (also depending on whether there's a supporting mind link as well) and is very significant making the Orca far from useless. You could use a Battlecruiser for this, but you'll also lose the hull's bonus.
Using a Freighter just to collect or haul the ore back to station sounds feasible, but especially if it's in the same system, the Orca is still better for this - not just for the added tractor beams: it can zip back to station, drop the ore and be back in the belt boosting in 2 or 3 minutes. The freighter might need this time just for one trip (without the way back). A standard T1 industrial can carry like 40-50k m³ per run, so if one keeps moving back/forth the Orca should never get full. If it does, add another hauler. Either use the Orca as the hauler or use it as a collector/buffer for the real haulers.

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Tess La'Coil
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#66 - 2012-11-30 14:12:20 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
can you make the deadspace transports the unscannable ones instead of the blockade runners?

having a cloak makes it enough that they will never be scanned anyways.

I don't see your point, DST's have the benefit of a nice small tank and a +2 warp strength. On top of that they align like snails thus not changing anything in regards to ganking.

Do you really need more than 2.5km3 of cargospace for your superexpensive mods and Plexes?

I'm going to love to see the T2 CargoRigged and T2 Cargoexpanded Viator's getting popped on the killboard with Plex in their hold.

You can bring the align time of a Blockade Runner to (if I'm not mistaken) 1.25 seconds aligntime. On top of that being small and having a covert cloak will make anything a bit too large have a hard time locking before you warp off.
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother. 
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-11-30 14:17:56 UTC
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll soon change autopilot so that it activates covops cloaks automatically. We can't require people to pay attention when they're hauling their life's worth now can we?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-11-30 14:19:08 UTC
Tess La'Coil wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
can you make the deadspace transports the unscannable ones instead of the blockade runners?

having a cloak makes it enough that they will never be scanned anyways.

I don't see your point, DST's have the benefit of a nice small tank and a +2 warp strength. On top of that they align like snails thus not changing anything in regards to ganking.

Do you really need more than 2.5km3 of cargospace for your superexpensive mods and Plexes?

I'm going to love to see the T2 CargoRigged and T2 Cargoexpanded Viator's getting popped on the killboard with Plex in their hold.

You can bring the align time of a Blockade Runner to (if I'm not mistaken) 1.25 seconds aligntime. On top of that being small and having a covert cloak will make anything a bit too large have a hard time locking before you warp off.


All you need to do to not get ganked in a covert transport is instawarp from jita undock and then cloak the rest of the way.

Don't get me wrong I love killing transport ships, thing is I just think having that feature on the covert transports that never get scanned because they are cloaked is sort of stupid. It's not like people can easily do something about scanning something good in them in the first place.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
#69 - 2012-11-30 14:20:15 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Look at me getting 4th(ish)!

Does this mean Blockade runners can haul contrband past NPCs in high sec too without being scanned and ticked off by the faction police?

Nice stuff from what I read, Ta



NPC customs officers are NOT affected by these scanning changes.


Ugh... When will we get the smuggling changes!? Cry
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-11-30 14:22:51 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Don't get me wrong I love killing transport ships, thing is I just think having that feature on the covert transports that never get scanned because they are cloaked is sort of stupid. It's not like people can easily do something about scanning something good in them in the first place.


Of course, nobody scans blockade runners since they generally don't stay cloaked. But the intent is clearly to avoid punishing players who don't want to actually play the game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Singulis Pacifica
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-11-30 14:25:01 UTC
Grideris wrote:
I assume that the immunity to cargo scanning is not being extended to Deep Space Transports? (The other class of T2 industrial ships)


That would be awesome if it was the case: It's an expensive ship as far as industrials go, takes some time to learn to fly one, and it will give the Tech 2 industrials an additional purpose. I'd love to see it implemented Big smile
Raser Moonstrider
Raser Industries
#72 - 2012-11-30 14:25:13 UTC
I was almost excited to see the large T2 industrial get something that made it worthwhile..... and then I realized that you gave the "unscannable" trait to the cloaked hauler...which has absolutely no need for it because it can cloak. Roll
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#73 - 2012-11-30 14:25:21 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Quote:
Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items

Why?


I am not sure if you are asking because you think this is a bad thing or if you are just curious; either way here is your answer:

There are a lot of exceptions in our code for freighters. By removing those exceptions we clean up our code and make it more maintainable.

From a user perspective we don't ever tell you about any of these exceptions until you try and do it and it is a really bad user experience. You can jettison things from any ship... unless it is a freighter. You can scoop loot in any ship... unless it is a freighter. All of these changes are really arbitrary and not explained to our users in any way.

On top of that when we looked at what the restrictions were and why they had been put in place we no longer deemed them as necessary.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#74 - 2012-11-30 14:25:39 UTC
Farewell, simplified personal organization in w-space. You will be missed.

Unscannable blockade runners seems a wee bit redundant, but I suppose the unscannable ship would have to be good at running away because it's now a much more appetizing target.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#75 - 2012-11-30 14:26:40 UTC
Keep in mind guys that team Game of Drones has been going on a balancing rampage of ships lately, I think something like 59 re-balanced or new ships with Retribution, when they get to the industrial ships they very well may change which ships have what bonuses.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
GKO
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2012-11-30 14:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: GKO
Tess La'Coil wrote:
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
can you make the deadspace transports the unscannable ones instead of the blockade runners?

having a cloak makes it enough that they will never be scanned anyways.

I don't see your point, DST's have the benefit of a nice small tank and a +2 warp strength. On top of that they align like snails thus not changing anything in regards to ganking.

Do you really need more than 2.5km3 of cargospace for your superexpensive mods and Plexes?

I'm going to love to see the T2 CargoRigged and T2 Cargoexpanded Viator's getting popped on the killboard with Plex in their hold.

You can bring the align time of a Blockade Runner to (if I'm not mistaken) 1.25 seconds aligntime. On top of that being small and having a covert cloak will make anything a bit too large have a hard time locking before you warp off.


Yeah but why? Covert Ops Cloak = nobody can target you anyway. jita undock is the problem. Nobody would fit a cov ops frig/hauler for align time unless you dont need the slots.

The CCP intention is nice, but on the wrong ship. Raivi convo me ingame!
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#77 - 2012-11-30 14:32:46 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
On top of that when we looked at what the restrictions were and why they had been put in place we no longer deemed them as necessary.

In fact that is what I wanted to figure out - what have changed since those restrictions are implemented? Why are they obsolete in your CCP opinion?
GKO
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-11-30 14:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: GKO
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Quote:
Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items

Why?


I am not sure if you are asking because you think this is a bad thing or if you are just curious; either way here is your answer:

There are a lot of exceptions in our code for freighters. By removing those exceptions we clean up our code and make it more maintainable.

From a user perspective we don't ever tell you about any of these exceptions until you try and do it and it is a really bad user experience. You can jettison things from any ship... unless it is a freighter. You can scoop loot in any ship... unless it is a freighter. All of these changes are really arbitrary and not explained to our users in any way.

On top of that when we looked at what the restrictions were and why they had been put in place we no longer deemed them as necessary.


Dont be trolled by them, it is a nice change. Eve is complicated enough, I appreciate it. I would just suggest watching if your intended role for Orcas really will stay untouched by slowly aligning freighters. Otherwise I am really happy to see that change!

If you would make freighters more 0.0 friendly I would love you. I am on the freighter killing side though :) Edit: My example was bad.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#79 - 2012-11-30 14:41:45 UTC
GKO wrote:
But now I can use my freighter to loot freighter wrecks, yeah!

You always could.
Drone 16
Holy Horde
#80 - 2012-11-30 14:41:54 UTC
Melina Lin wrote:
Quote:
Blockade Runners are being updated to be immune to cargo scanners, and as such will always show up as empty on scans


What kind of weird change is this? Why nerf these ships so that you will never be able to auto pilot an empty one home? This game becomes more of a chore with every patch. :(

If you see this as a buff, it's not required. Properly flown and scouted a BR has almost 100% chance to reach its destination.



I totally agree. You just made blockade runners a ship that literally cannot be in space uncloaked.

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