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Dev blog: Corp Hangars on ships and You

First post First post
Author
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#181 - 2012-11-30 21:10:27 UTC
The only problem I see with the DST getting the unscannable hold is that they are too slow to get away from anything. If there is any reason to suspect them they are going to die from anything other than a solo player. The DST does need some love though, it is just too slow to be worth using.

I think the unscannable on the BR is cool, it adds a level a risk to using them... you almost HAVE to fly them cloaked now, no more half-drunk auto-piloting.

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#182 - 2012-11-30 21:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Andendare
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Blockade Runners are being updated to be immune to cargo scanners, and as such will always show up as empty on scans
This is a dumb change. Blockade runners aren't typically scanned anyway, and they insta-cloak after they jump.

A *MUCH* better ship to give this functionality to is a DST. They already get a lot of tank and warp strength. Giving them scan immunity (since they are decloaked haulers anyway) makes the most sense here, honestly.

MadMuppet wrote:
The only problem I see with the DST getting the unscannable hold is that they are too slow to get away from anything. If there is any reason to suspect them they are going to die from anything other than a solo player. The DST does need some love though, it is just too slow to be worth using.
Yeah, but since you're too slow anyway, might as well make the ship with 100k+ hp unscannable to make it somewhat usable. I'd rather be slow and tanky and unscannable vs slow and tanky and give the gatecampers time to scan me and meet me at the next system with their suicide gank.

MadMuppet wrote:
I think the unscannable on the BR is cool, it adds a level a risk to using them... you almost HAVE to fly them cloaked now, no more half-drunk auto-piloting.
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Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#183 - 2012-11-30 21:17:02 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
The only problem I see with the DST getting the unscannable hold is that they are too slow to get away from anything. If there is any reason to suspect them they are going to die from anything other than a solo player. The DST does need some love though, it is just too slow to be worth using.

I think the unscannable on the BR is cool, it adds a level a risk to using them... you almost HAVE to fly them cloaked now, no more half-drunk auto-piloting.


Well... the DST has a couple of benefits... it can have a vast cargo hold relative to indys... ~33,000 m3 + if I recall. It can also field a pretty impressive tank. Lots of CPU and power and high resists. The problem is that, yah it's super slow. If the DST got the scanning denial bonus, though, it would make it a much more valuable ship, because nobody would know if it were full or empty and thus each engagement would have a higher risk of being for nothing. You need far more ships to kill a DST than you do a BR. A few destroyers can gank a BR. A DST can field BS class tanks. The BR doesn't benefit from not being scannable because it already warps so fast few can lock it. The BR is already the go-to for solo logistics. The DST isn't used by anyone much at all anymore. tl;dr; I think the BR needed a nerf if anything, not a buff. The DST is long overdue for a buff, but didn't get it.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#184 - 2012-11-30 21:18:48 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
The only problem I see with the DST getting the unscannable hold is that they are too slow to get away from anything. If there is any reason to suspect them they are going to die from anything other than a solo player. The DST does need some love though, it is just too slow to be worth using.


As I pointed out, tanked DSTs aren't targets for casual ganks. Your tank is at a level where the invulnerability to scans simply precludes lolganks. Sure, you'll have those who decide to autopilot expanded and cargo rigged DSTs full of PLEX but such stupidity will always happen.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

mrpapageorgio
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#185 - 2012-11-30 21:22:45 UTC
As a supercap pilot I absolutely hate the corp hangar changes. Cans are a terrible half-assed solution to you guys removing division functionality I depended on. You have just ensured that I will never allow anyone access to my fleet hangar. If you actually flew supercapitals on regular basis (test server doesn't count) you'd know how awful this change is. Cans are no substitute for divisions, now matter how much you say they are.

I'm really glad you guys are just charging ahead with this instead of listening to the feedback provided in the test server thread. I see you guys learned a lot and have really changed your ways since the abortion that unified inventory was. Instead of taking the time to actually fix this the correct way, you've decided to just do whatever the hell you want again and leave your players to deal with the mess.
Marcus McTavish
Volcel Police
#186 - 2012-11-30 21:25:13 UTC
I don't care about the whole scanning bypass that it was, I care about organization.

Can you bring back the tabs somehow.

Maybe by assigning things put in different tabs a sort of tag. Then when you select a tab, it just "searches" for stuff with that tab's tag?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#187 - 2012-11-30 21:29:34 UTC
mrpapageorgio wrote:
As a supercap pilot I absolutely hate the corp hangar changes. Cans are a terrible half-assed solution to you guys removing division functionality I depended on. You have just ensured that I will never allow anyone access to my fleet hangar. If you actually flew supercapitals on regular basis (test server doesn't count) you'd know how awful this change is. Cans are no substitute for divisions, now matter how much you say they are.

I'm really glad you guys are just charging ahead with this instead of listening to the feedback provided in the test server thread. I see you guys learned a lot and have really changed your ways since the abortion that unified inventory was. Instead of taking the time to actually fix this the correct way, you've decided to just do whatever the hell you want again and leave your players to deal with the mess.


as someone with two supercarriers i enjoy the fleet hangar changes

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-11-30 21:40:10 UTC
Quote:
* Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items


inb4 someone jettisons a full freighter of shuttles on Jita 4-4 and nukes the node Lol
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#189 - 2012-11-30 21:41:31 UTC
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Quote:
* Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items


inb4 someone jettisons a full freighter of shuttles on Jita 4-4 and nukes the node Lol


fairly sure that'd get you banned p quickly

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#190 - 2012-11-30 21:54:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
Eija-Riitta Veitonen wrote:
Quote:
* Freighters will have most of their special-case restrictions removed: they will now be able to perform cargo operations in space, including moving items into and out of containers, moving things to and from containers in space, and jettisoning items


inb4 someone jettisons a full freighter of shuttles on Jita 4-4 and nukes the node Lol


fairly sure that'd get you banned p quickly

If you jettison shuttles they'll just be stacked in a jettison can. The'll have to jettison cans... and by the looks of it freight uncompressed cans. So about 900 cans in a go. Still... don't want to push through 900 cans at Jita 4-4 undock. A Deep Space Transport can do 300 small secure cans in a go though... so since that isn't happening maybe we'll be OK with the freighter thing.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#191 - 2012-11-30 22:12:01 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
The changes to container behavior in fleet hangars, the new containers, and existing inventory features such as filters, should allow most (but not all) of the current functionality to be replicable in the new system.


Bloody forums ate my post...awesome sauce...

Filters, no they are not the same, and not very easy to use in not full screen inventory windows.

Cargo cans? How many posts in the previous "fleet hanger feedback" thread said that was a good idea?

If current divisions need work to be better, guess what, thats your job, stop complaining about how much work something would be and do it, its what you are paid to do.

Please don't push less functionality just because you can, some of your customers keep remembering all those times you 'fixed' something by deleting it and replacing it with a very very inferior version that lacked even the basic semblance of functionality that the original had.

Thats the short and sweet version, please fix your forums to stop eating posts. (no, the 'draft' did not save)

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#192 - 2012-11-30 22:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
---edit---(double post)

Fix your blasted forums will you? (instead of the fleet hanger) Took me 7 tries to actually post that...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2012-11-30 22:31:26 UTC
Anyone who is happy about the BR change is smoking something. Blockade runners don't need an unscannable cargo hold. They are easy to kill when uncloaked, as they are paper thin. So all this means is every ganker will gladly risk some cheap ship to pop one if they can.

Scannable or not, a well piloted BR was equally safe. Now I won't even be able to safely AP my empty one back home.

Stupid.

And thank GOD they didn't give it to DST's All unscannable means for anything below the orca is mystery loot pinata. And thats just because an orca has enough EHP to need a gank team.

And the loss of divisions is highly annoying. As has been said, fixed sized containers is NOT a solution.

Maybe someday you guys can make the inventory UI have something like, i dunno, folders. You know like the graphical OS's I've been running on my computer for decades. Maybe these folders could even have security.
Bessa Miros
#194 - 2012-11-30 22:55:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Bessa Miros
Gogela wrote:
If the DST got the scanning denial bonus, though, it would make it a much more valuable ship, because nobody would know if it were full or empty and thus each engagement would have a higher risk of being for nothing. You need far more ships to kill a DST than you do a BR. A few destroyers can gank a BR. A DST can field BS class tanks. The BR doesn't benefit from not being scannable because it already warps so fast few can lock it. The BR is already the go-to for solo logistics. The DST isn't used by anyone much at all anymore.

Agree - makes a good case.

The bigger slower t2 hauler (DST) is useless right now. Make it unscannable and you throw in a really cool variable to high-sec ganking - "is it empty, is it full of plex?" Risk for reward!

People won't just gank a DST, they'll have to get organized to do it with costly ships - unlike a BR on AutoPilot for home which can be popped by small throwaways.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#195 - 2012-11-30 23:02:28 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
And thank GOD they didn't give it to DST's All unscannable means for anything below the orca is mystery loot pinata. And thats just because an orca has enough EHP to need a gank team.


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Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

LuckyQuarter
Eden Dominion Coalition
Scary Wormhole People
#196 - 2012-11-30 23:23:54 UTC
I'm fine with the orca and freighter changes. Orca will be fine due to its fitting flexibility and a super tanked orca is as safe as one can get in highsec. The freighter should have had these changes long ago.

As for blockade runners and deep space transports:

Blockade Runners are already _the transport ship_ for anything outside of highsec. I'm not sure there is any reason to buff them any further. The unscannable feature also isn't going to have any impact as a properly flown BR won't show up on overview for more than a second. No good viator pilot lets their ship stay still long enough to be scanned.

Deep Space Transports need some love. They are modestly usable in wormholes and highsec, given their +2 warp stab + tank.....makes grabbing PI from planets safer or hauling goods to highsec a little safer than in an iteron, but most pilots just wont fly them due to their high mass which results in massive delay in getting them into warp. If that mass is going to stay as is, than their cargo hold or tank should probably be increased...at least so that they are modestly better than an itty5. Either have max cargo hold be 50K or increase the max tank to at least half an orca's.
Racial Purifier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2012-11-30 23:35:27 UTC
Quote:
Ship maintenance bays are somewhat special: they will be scannable (ie, ships but not their modules or cargo can show up in results), but they won't be dropping assembled ships as loot


Why wouldn't they drop ? Makes no sense.

Quote:
Blockade Runners are being updated to be immune to cargo scanners, and as such will always show up as empty on scans


Idiotic unnecessery change - was already impossible to gank competent BR pilots, they don't deserve or need scan immunity.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2012-11-30 23:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
blockaide runners...... ? so can we all look forward to much larger cargo bays in the runners?
the orca secure hauling may have been big (though the size to me is not the unnecessary part - the size is important for large mining ops) but the blockaide runner cargo size is unnecessarily tiny..


CCP, you are not going to make me hate you again for making my orca not work in my mining ops are you?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

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Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#199 - 2012-11-30 23:46:16 UTC
All part of two trends at CCP towards Eve: 1) dumb down the game, and 2) increase the ISK sink due to combat loss, etc.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#200 - 2012-12-01 00:20:20 UTC
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
All part of two trends at CCP towards Eve: 1) dumb down the game, and 2) increase the ISK sink due to combat loss, etc.


combat losses are not an "isk sink"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar