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[Proposal] Half-carriers and Half-J/F's
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Joseph Arran
LEX Investments
#1 - 2012-11-29 02:52:32 UTC
This had probably be presented before and no I didn't take the time to confirm. The idea is pretty simple; jump freighters are crazy expensive and carriers take a long time to train. Why not have something a little more attainable like a tech 2 orca that can do SHORT jumps and carried less than a carrier, nothing fitted. It shouldn't be able to compete with the carriers or j/f at all.

The fact that the jump ability is SO exclusive makes moving into null and some parts of low really difficult. Therefore one is forced to relay on promises to move this or that. If that promise is not honored then....well you either pay the mark up or gtfo. Now again, I am not suggesting a true work horse like the j/f or anything as versatile as a Carrier. Just something a small corp or even an individual with decent resources and sp (30m sp for example) could use. I admit I am not a cap pilot (yes, this is an alt) but looking at the numbers I guess I am proposing a half- carrier or j/f across the board

Half-carrier(not actually a carrier really)

5km3 corp hanger
125km3 ship maint bay
3 ly jump range
no combat abilities

Half-j/f

175km3 hold
2.5 ly jump range

These numbers could be further reduced as to not compete with carriers and J/F. The point, from my perspective, is to offer something else other than these very high end jump vessels. It stands to reason that someone in the cluster would have come up with something else by now.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#2 - 2012-11-29 03:05:24 UTC
Black-ops plus as many Blocade Runners as your heart desires works too.
Joseph Arran
LEX Investments
#3 - 2012-11-29 03:09:25 UTC
well true, but I was looking for something that could move a packaged BC (15km3). Again, nothing fitted or assembled. So not the same as a J/F or Carrier. The Blockade runner does do the job to an extent but I think there is a significant gap that could be filled by what I am suggesting.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#4 - 2012-11-29 14:59:34 UTC
Joseph Arran wrote:
well true, but I was looking for something that could move a packaged BC (15km3). Again, nothing fitted or assembled. So not the same as a J/F or Carrier. The Blockade runner does do the job to an extent but I think there is a significant gap that could be filled by what I am suggesting.


The reason jump freighters are so expensive is because they almost never die. In low-sec, it's impossible to catch them - they can be in warp before pirates even realize the cyno is up, they can jump straight out of station camps, hit the gates at 0 and jump to high-sec, etc etc.

Most JF's that die, do so in one of three ways: A) Suicide gank or war in high-sec B) stupidly jump to a gate or pos in low-sec and get tackled before they are in warp (requires extreme stupidity to pull off) or C) get sucked into bubbles in null-sec.

Your proposal makes sense until you consider that what you've suggested would still be nearly impossible to catch, and thus would require an exorbinate price tag to "balance." You'd still be looking at 3 or 4 billion isk.

To put JF's in perspective, I had one shortly after a year of playing Eve. That's about 25 million SP, most of which were actually trained in Orca. Mind you, they were a lot cheaper back then. You can train for a JF in a little under 4 months, without implants or remaps. The "skill time" is not an impediment. Their price is. But jump freighters were never meant to be individual assets, despite becoming used as such. A corporation should have no problem making 8 billion isk in 4 months as one of their own trains for the ship.

Where I do think your proposal has merit is that large ship maintenace bay (I'd even go so far as to say it should be bigger). Currently, there is no decent way to ferry rigged battleships through high-sec unless you fly them yourself. I'm not sure even giving it a jump drive would be necessary to make it useful. This idea has, in fact, been presented before but I'm too lazy to search for it :)
Joseph Arran
LEX Investments
#5 - 2012-11-29 20:58:57 UTC
That sounds like the tug idea that is currently being discussed. I understand your counter argument and appreciate you taking the time to discuss this. I still think it would be nice to have something more attainable, but it also sounds like this would be outside of the intentions of CCP and game dynamics. I guess the good news is that I am somewhat on the right track with the need to be able to move ships...though this doesn't address the 8 billion isk hurdle and being able to move them through low/null. Guess I better make more friends, rat alot more, figure a better investment plan or plex it. Thanks for you time and fly safe.
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-12-02 17:23:02 UTC
JF cost allot not because they never die, it is because of the regular materials that goes into one combined with expensive tech 2 for a capital (tech 2 tend to be 5-10 fold cost of tech 1),
Joseph Arran
LEX Investments
#7 - 2012-12-07 21:10:45 UTC
ok, then if it is a matter of materials then why not have something fill the gap between jump-nothing and jump-anything. There is no middle ground. If you consider blackops as part of the picture then that still falls well short of providing a middle ground give that the size of the cargo hold is around 500-700m3.

Also, I understand that the ability to move items via a jump asset is not 'intended' to be an individual asset. Yet, for the guy willing to throw 300-500USD at the game (yes these people are real) then thats exactly what it is and sounds like pay-to-win to me. If winning is being in control of the market simply because your the only one that can really move anything then being the guy with the J/F is the "i win" button. Hell, for 8b it SHOULD be the i win button.

For the sake of balance I think there should be something to fill the role of some sort of medium jump transport. It could be tech 3 transport that can jump 2.5ly and had a hold of 15km3 with some low slots. I dont care what it is, something is better than nothing.