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Dev Blog: Happy Safe Fun Time!

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Author
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-11-27 17:30:32 UTC
Oh god... For a second I actually feared that you had added a way to let people choose not to be in danger at the expense of not being able to shoot at others... At least I was greatly mistaken, and for that, I am grateful. Looks like this is going to be a very nice change. No more annoying pop-ups in Empire-space. I like that.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#102 - 2012-11-27 17:31:45 UTC

Thoughts:

1.) When I imagine changing the "safety" settings, I always imagined something in the escape menus that would pull me away from what's happing in space around me. I applaud the little UI button that clearly indicates my safety setting, and enables me to change it fluidly during a battle. With that said, I would like to be able to define my 'default' setting. I understand the need for everyone's default to be "safe" to start, but I really think having to switch it from safe to partially safe or living dangerous every time I log in is excessive. This is really only a minor gripe though....

2.) Do you have to come to a complete stop to "safe" logoff? It really sounded like you do, which is awkward:
--- If you can't move, you can't be aligned to escape assuming a hostile enter's grid. Many players often counter enemy probes by aligning to a warp out, and warping the moment a hostile enters the grid, but if they have to align from rest first, larger ships will be easily caught.
--- Essentially the upcoming changes mean you can NOT easily escape from hostiles probing for you by logging out.... even if you are safe at the moment by being at a random bookmark and cloaked. This is detrimental to any supercap pilot that attempts to log out in space when a determined opponent is in system. Their only options are to log out inside a POS, or to cyno out of the system. Perhaps reduce the "safe" logoff timer to 20 seconds, and then the window to catch these ships is small enough to make it generally possible.

3.) Overall, these are good changes... Thank you for your work!

4.) Are you planning to create a "system" safety settings too.... with an easily alterable HUD element that prevents you from entering highsec (while gcc) or lower sec (while risk-adverse)?
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#103 - 2012-11-27 17:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: TheLostPenguin
Seems like a good consolidation of the existing "Are you sure you want to do that?" popups and settings, but...

Since our current settings for suppressing those warnings are persistent between login sessions, why on earth is this setting not?

I really fail to see the issue with having it be persistent, or at least letting us select a toggle to "Remember safety settings" for those that want to use it (which I suspect would be a whole bunch of people, not least of all everyone in losec and those hisec denizens that just love greeting people with the warm embrace of a half dozen fresh rounds).


*edited to clarify I'm referring to login sessions, and not in-game session changes, due to confusion in thread between the 2
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#104 - 2012-11-27 17:34:51 UTC
Vegare wrote:
Quote:
- Yes, it will. We're cognizant of the small additional load that this puts on people who regularly want it off; we don't believe the load is much larger than the one already incurred by eg having to turn on your hardeners all the time, so we don't believe it's a *major* problem, but we're also not totally happy with it (as we're not for hardeners either) and we'd like to find a clean way to persist it between sessions without violating its primary goals.
This is rediculous! On the one hand you say you want to make our lives easier when going on a lowsec roam by removing annoying pop ups (which have a checkbox to only show them once). On the other hand you make us toggle our safeties after _every_ session change?

Quote:
so we don't believe it's a *major* problem
You're wrong.


They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change".

They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.

Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-11-27 17:41:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Vegare wrote:
Quote:
- Yes, it will. We're cognizant of the small additional load that this puts on people who regularly want it off; we don't believe the load is much larger than the one already incurred by eg having to turn on your hardeners all the time, so we don't believe it's a *major* problem, but we're also not totally happy with it (as we're not for hardeners either) and we'd like to find a clean way to persist it between sessions without violating its primary goals.
This is rediculous! On the one hand you say you want to make our lives easier when going on a lowsec roam by removing annoying pop ups (which have a checkbox to only show them once). On the other hand you make us toggle our safeties after _every_ session change?

Quote:
so we don't believe it's a *major* problem
You're wrong.


They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change".

They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.



Kind of like needing to disengage your safetly each time you go target shooting.
At least it's not between each target, like you should do IRL.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-11-27 17:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
minus the big numbers and color coding wasn't this already a feature? I know I always get a warning in high sec when I accidentally try to mine something not a rock. I just assume I'm always one click away from stupid death.. it makes me careful.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#107 - 2012-11-27 17:43:32 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


They don't mean you have to toggle the safeties every "session change".

They mean you have to toggle the safeties every time you Log Onto your Character.


phew... thy
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-11-27 17:47:58 UTC
Lord Azori wrote:
Can a dev please confirm if this is the case for WH and Null dwellers? As in there is effectively no safety in those locations? Also, please please please, let me set my default and hide the safety button.


The safety setting is completely irrelevant in nullsec/wormholes on Buckingham.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2012-11-27 17:49:21 UTC
So you have a repper on.. and your power goes out so that you can't log back in right away; how long does your ship sit there in space now that an active mod running does let your ship logout?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Luc Chastot
#110 - 2012-11-27 17:49:25 UTC
Does the security button remember your choice between sessions? Last time I tested it it didn't; I had to set it to yellow every time I logged.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
#111 - 2012-11-27 17:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Harbingour
Quote:

to ensure that, when you inevitably lose your ship in a very silly way, it is very definitely 100% your fault.



Will these safety locks also prevent logistics from repping pilots with <-5.0 faction status so that they won't get targeted by the faction police? The bad faction aggrro is one othe last 'silent aggro' problems that incursioners still run into. No warning for bad faction status is definely not 100% the logi's fault. It is pretty silly to see faction police pop in your site & attack logi's with no warning at all Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-11-27 17:54:57 UTC
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:

Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.


You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not.
Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module.

Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#113 - 2012-11-27 18:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
What about putting in a practical "Safe log off button" that does what's needed to perform the safe log off? IE it turns off modules, stops the ships and stops whatever blocks the safe log off process and only then it initiates the safe log off?

It'd be useful in some of my ships where I'd have to go click 6-7 buttons and that's :effort:
Callic Veratar
#114 - 2012-11-27 18:01:35 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:

Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.


You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not.
Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module.

Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings?


Sounds like what you'll want to do most of the time is have your safety partial or off and make judgement calls of what to shoot or rep. It's just a lock to catch you for those weird edge cases.

If you don't like the safety, turn it off and leave it there.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#115 - 2012-11-27 18:02:19 UTC
I don't know if this will help anyone else, but I immediately needed to see the charts from the other blog showing what flags are incurred with what actions, and what you are vulnerable to when those flags are applied to you. Here's the links if you were wanting to see the same thing, but forgot to look at the other blog again.

what flags you - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_actions2flags.png

when you are flagged - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63443/1/logo2_flags2consequences.png

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-11-27 18:05:50 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:

Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.


You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not.
Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module.

Will it be as fast to adjust your safety as clicking through the gcc warning? If so, great. But I suspect not; for the gcc warning I can just hit enter or tab enter (don't remember whether "yes" or "no" is default). To adjust safety, don't I have to open the safety dialogue, then move the mouse to choose one of the safety settings?


It might take a half second longer. "Click button, select option, let mouse button go"

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-11-27 18:12:48 UTC
Tetsel wrote:
And when will Mr Greyscale stop spending his time on un-EVEish / useless feature ? Roll
Kinda fed up of CCP thinking EvE player should be treated like stupid children.....


A lot of them are now.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#118 - 2012-11-27 18:16:46 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
So you have a repper on.. and your power goes out so that you can't log back in right away; how long does your ship sit there in space now that an active mod running does let your ship logout?


This depends on the state of timers:

A.) Assuming you have no timers: Your ship will ewarp 1m km's and, assuming no one aggresses you, will despawn after ONE minute.
---- Note: It is possible for someone to scan you down within that 1 minute and aggress you. If they do, you will gain a PvP timer that prevents your ship from despawning for 15 minutes. This timer will be renewed with any additional acts of aggression, pretty much meaning your ship dies.

B.) Assuming you currently have an NPC timer: Your ship will attempt to ewar 1m km's. This ewarp can be inhibited by any warp scrambling effect (most likely from NPC rats in this case). Assuming no-player aggersses you, your ship will despawn after the FIVE minute NPC timer ends.
---- Note: It is possible for someone to scan you down within that 5 minutes and aggress you. If they do, you will gain a PvP timer that prevents your ship from despawning for 15 minutes. Same as above... you probably die if this happens.

C.) Assuming you currently have a PvP timer: Your ship will attempt to ewarp 1m km's. This ewarp can be inhibited by any warp scrambling effect. Assuming no new players aggress you, your ship will despawn after the FIFTEEN minute PvP timer ends.
---- Note: It is possible for someone to attack your ship within that 15 minutes and aggress you. If they do, your PvP timer is renewed, and your ship will not despawn for at least 15 minutes. In this case, you will probably die...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#119 - 2012-11-27 18:20:01 UTC
Harbingour wrote:
Quote:

to ensure that, when you inevitably lose your ship in a very silly way, it is very definitely 100% your fault.



Will these safety locks also prevent logistics from repping pilots with <-5.0 faction status so that they won't get targeted by the faction police? The bad faction aggrro is one othe last 'silent aggro' problems that incursioners still run into. No warning for bad faction status is definely not 100% the logi's fault. It is pretty silly to see faction police pop in your site & attack logi's with no warning at all Blink


In short... no, it wont... at least, not until the faction police start flagging people as suspects (Which would be AWESOME!!)!!!

The safeties prevent you from performing actions that give you a Suspect or Criminal flag... and, currently, the Faction Police aggression is removed from the Suspect/Criminal Flag system.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#120 - 2012-11-27 18:25:17 UTC
The safety system is actually easier than I thought it would be. I hate it when I get a popup ninja looting. More excellent changes. Big smile

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