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Dev Blog: Happy Safe Fun Time!

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Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-11-27 16:54:27 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:

I'd only say I agree with others that if you do try and pull an aggressive act with the safety on, that the safety level pops up and says "You said you didn't want to be up to this kind of business, so if you really really want to, please confirm the next lower safety level to continue with this aggressive act. It's not our fault if you're dokken'd."


No more "are you sure" popups please. People don't read them anyway. The intent of this "master switch" is to avoid more literature while trying to shoot something.
ToranBrades
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-11-27 16:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ToranBrades
Great idea - so if usually you wanted to be on the cautious side and thus leave the warning popup enabled, but were still one popup+click away from being able to engage that cagey guy in losec, now I need to change a safety setting, and the whole process will take me way longer than confirming a popup, which can give the other party an advantage.

How awesome an idea - seriously, though, I assume the people coming up with that idea don't travel between hi, lo and nul too often..? Please, give us options how to have that behaviour, don't force us into your idea of what you would need for PVP - people switching space security systems might still prefer (and be better of with) the old system. Thus, options, please.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-11-27 16:54:42 UTC
I am pleased to report smartbombing around anchored containers was changed. As far as it goes on Buckingham, anchored containers no longer prevent you from activating smartbombs in their vicinity.
Excellent move, CCP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#84 - 2012-11-27 16:55:14 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed.

currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Sad


Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.

Please change this and make it permanently persistent. As a veteran pilot I really don't want to have to turn my safety off every time I change sessions.
Lord Azori
Bob's Bait and Tackle
I Showed You My Probes... Please Respond...
#85 - 2012-11-27 16:57:54 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
Is making it persist between sessions on the table? I'd rather just turn it off and not have to deal with various safety settings ever.


I would imagine that having the safety system in "green safe mode" just wouldn't do anything in WH or null space since you don't pick up flags for doing anything there anyway. So if you live in null or WH 100% of the time you would never need to turn it off. Now if you live in lowsec this could certainly be annoying.

Image the hilarity if a lowsec roaming gang jumps into a hostile gang and then discovers that half of the fleet members forgot to turn off their safeties when they logged on.


Can a dev please confirm if this is the case for WH and Null dwellers? As in there is effectively no safety in those locations? Also, please please please, let me set my default and hide the safety button.
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2012-11-27 16:58:00 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Ok, so you can't initiate a safe logoff until your timers have ended anyway. The benefit of safe logoff is:


  • Unsafe logoff: you close the client, your ship turns off its modules, emergency-warps, sits in space for a minute and then disappears
  • Safe logoff: you hit safe logoff, your ship sits in space for thirty seconds with its modules off, and then disappears


Other than not generating you an instant 1m km safespot, there's really no upside to unsafe logoff other than speed.


Are you sure? If you unsafe log off without any timers and you're aggressed during the logoff, you will still disappear. But the safe logoff will cancel the logoff.
Devblog wrote:
"You have a target lock or are targeted
You have aggression from players or NPCs
and if they happen once the countdown is running, it'll be aborted."


If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-11-27 16:59:13 UTC
The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.

Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me.
Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.

My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#88 - 2012-11-27 17:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Rutger Janssen wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Ok, so you can't initiate a safe logoff until your timers have ended anyway. The benefit of safe logoff is:


  • Unsafe logoff: you close the client, your ship turns off its modules, emergency-warps, sits in space for a minute and then disappears
  • Safe logoff: you hit safe logoff, your ship sits in space for thirty seconds with its modules off, and then disappears


Other than not generating you an instant 1m km safespot, there's really no upside to unsafe logoff other than speed.


Are you sure? If you unsafe log off without any timers and you're aggressed during the logoff, you will still disappear. But the safe logoff will cancel the logoff.
Devblog wrote:
"You have a target lock or are targeted
You have aggression from players or NPCs
and if they happen once the countdown is running, it'll be aborted."


If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)


Your wrong..... Go read CCP Masterplan's additions to the new crimewatch system....

Specifically, you can gain a PvP timer after you log off, even if you didn't have one PRIOR to logging off....

*edit to add link to relevant post*
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-11-27 17:02:51 UTC
Rutger Janssen wrote:
If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)


1. Your disappearing countdown when aggressed is 15 minutes.
2. When someone shoots you while you're logged off this timer restarts.

So no upside really.
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#90 - 2012-11-27 17:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: San Fransisco
Rutger Janssen wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Ok, so you can't initiate a safe logoff until your timers have ended anyway. The benefit of safe logoff is:


  • Unsafe logoff: you close the client, your ship turns off its modules, emergency-warps, sits in space for a minute and then disappears
  • Safe logoff: you hit safe logoff, your ship sits in space for thirty seconds with its modules off, and then disappears


Other than not generating you an instant 1m km safespot, there's really no upside to unsafe logoff other than speed.


Are you sure? If you unsafe log off without any timers and you're aggressed during the logoff, you will still disappear. But the safe logoff will cancel the logoff.
Devblog wrote:
"You have a target lock or are targeted
You have aggression from players or NPCs
and if they happen once the countdown is running, it'll be aborted."


If you have a good enough buffer, it's safer to unsafe logoff than safe logoff as you'll disappear after 1 minute no matter what. Looks to me as an upside :)


I believe the changes to crime watch will address this... What they said
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#91 - 2012-11-27 17:04:24 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
Is making it persist between sessions on the table? I'd rather just turn it off and not have to deal with various safety settings ever.


I would imagine that having the safety system in "green safe mode" just wouldn't do anything in WH or null space since you don't pick up flags for doing anything there anyway. So if you live in null or WH 100% of the time you would never need to turn it off. Now if you live in lowsec this could certainly be annoying.

Image the hilarity if a lowsec roaming gang jumps into a hostile gang and then discovers that half of the fleet members forgot to turn off their safeties when they logged on.


I'd like to turn it off forever because I don't spend much time in empire space. When I am in lowsec, I want to be able to shoot first without having to remember a setting I never use and then navigate a menu. Odds are good I'd forget until I landed on someone, went for the tackle, and then realized none of my modules were working because it's trying to keep me from losing sec status. It's a lot faster to mash Enter than it is to click through the safety settings menu, especially if it then gives me a "do you really want to do this?" popup for turning off the safety.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#92 - 2012-11-27 17:04:37 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Specifically, you can gain a PvP timer after you log off, even if you didn't have one PRIOR to logging off....



You're not getting quite enough glee and hand rubbing into that statement. Lol

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-11-27 17:06:02 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.

Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me.
Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.

My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.


Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#94 - 2012-11-27 17:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Ra Jackson wrote:
ROXGenghis wrote:
The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.

Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me.
Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.

My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.


Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.



You notice that you can't rep him, you then choose to adjust your safety, or not.
Adjusting your safety is as easy as activating a module.
chris elliot
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#95 - 2012-11-27 17:13:38 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed.

currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Sad


Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.



You guys are working on a way to make it persist though yeah? So once we turn it off, its just off.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#96 - 2012-11-27 17:14:52 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
ROXGenghis wrote:
The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.

Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me.
Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.

My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.


Good points. What comes to mind: What happens if I am in a Guardian capchain, have security on, and my Guardian cap mate gets gcc? /edit: In lowsec.


A couple points here ROX:

A. Criminal flags only happen when a person shoots a neutral POD in lowsec, or illegally aggresses in highsec. As such, it's much harder for your fleet mate to go GCC. For the morally complex, just don't shoot neutral Pods and everything is pretty simple.

B. Switching Safety's "seems" like it will be moderately easy, and fluid... so it switching the safety off for a battle shouldn't be too complicated.

C. I agree the pop-up system is useful at times, but it is also cumbersome at times too!
Tiregn
Anvil Capital Trading
#97 - 2012-11-27 17:16:22 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed.

currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Sad


Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.


This is unacceptable. You can't throw something like this on the thousands of people that don't give a flying beep about it, and not make it always persistent. You have to change this.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#98 - 2012-11-27 17:17:38 UTC
Something that doesn't seem to have been covered...

The new "safe logoff" doesn't allow you to have any modules active or similar, which is fine, but what about using the directional scanner?
Borgholio
Borgholio's Collective
#99 - 2012-11-27 17:24:40 UTC
This will definitely help make sense of those obscure wardec mechanics. "Player A can rep player B but cannot attack Player C unless fired upon first...etc..."

You will be assimilated...bunghole!
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#100 - 2012-11-27 17:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vegare
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Just two questions: Will maximum safety be enabled by default, even for veteran pilots?

[...]


- Yes, it will. We're cognizant of the small additional load that this puts on people who regularly want it off; we don't believe the load is much larger than the one already incurred by eg having to turn on your hardeners all the time, so we don't believe it's a *major* problem, but we're also not totally happy with it (as we're not for hardeners either) and we'd like to find a clean way to persist it between sessions without violating its primary goals.
This is ridiculous! On the one hand you say you want to make our lives easier when going on a lowsec roam by removing annoying pop ups (which have a checkbox to only show them once). On the other hand you make us toggle our safeties after _every_ session change? Turning hardeners on repeatedly is an issue? Hey lets introduce another one. Btw; usually after a jump in you try to point something first and then activate them...

Quote:
so we don't believe it's a *major* problem
You're wrong.

edit: nvm, overread the following.
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.