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Dev Blog: Happy Safe Fun Time!

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Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
#261 - 2012-11-28 19:43:02 UTC
So, as I see it, if I warp to the next room in a Complex or mission and my client freezes, I do not go away and the rats kill me because I have aggression and my client is frozen. Is CCP going to give me my ship back when this happens?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#262 - 2012-11-28 21:19:03 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
Too many posts, struggling to find the answer to my quick questions

Scenario 1;

Im a high sec mission runner, im undocking and warping to the site to shoot NPCs. Do i need to set my safety to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at the mission NPCs (as this generates a suspect flag)

Scenario 2;

Im a high sec incursion runner, im in a site. As they are concord sanctioned hostiles do i need to have my safety set to at least YELLOW to allow me to fire at Sansha.

As a general rule im very happy with this change, i was a victim of the typical can baiting as a new player when i first started, however as the new players will be killing NPC rats they will likely have their safeties set to yellow at least. This will not prevent them opening a can baiters can as this only generates a suspect flag (from memory)

Can i anyone say 100% the answers to the above

You can shoot rats, mission rats, and incursion rats with the safety set to green. You can also assist anyone (rep them, etc) as long as they are not a suspect or a criminal with the safety set to green.

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Kevin Emoto
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
#263 - 2012-11-28 21:56:36 UTC
*DoubleFacepalm* so we not only have to deal with this annoying new 'feature' but will have to re-set it every time we log in?


CCP Greyscale wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
Jing Xin wrote:
I hope safety setting is persistent through docking, jumping, logging off. If it constantly defaults to green, some people will be seriously annoyed.

currently unless it has changed since last week it is not persistant Sad


Should be persisted per session, but not currently between sessions (see above). Ie, so long as you stay logged in, it stays the same; log out and it goes back to default.
Kevin Emoto
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
#264 - 2012-11-28 22:00:39 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
SERIOUSLY WHO THE HELL THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?
Greyscale.

This game has persistence in the majority of its features. Default orbit. Most of the UI. The configuration of our modules on the HUD. Etc. Etc. Etc. Persistence between login sessions is a default bit of design in nearly every feature CCP adds to this game, where persistence is applicable.

Nobody can reasonably argue that persistence is not applicable where the safety is concerned. People are flat-out gobsmacked that it was left out of the design, because it's common sense that it would be persistent. Which suggests that leaving it out was a conscious design decision, not some oversight, or something left out due to lack of time.

To maintain persistence here is the easiest thing in the world (hyperbolic, but you get the point.) Load safety setting at login. Save safety setting at logoff. That's it. Carbon probably has an API call for saving settings.

This is a Greyscale initiative. And he wants to see if player whining on the issue dies down after a few weeks of it being in play. I think one thing we've all learned about Greyscale is that he really does not like PvP, and most of his design ideas reveal that as bright as day.

(Notice in a quote above, when answering about persistence, Greyscale not only states he can't say when it will be fixed, he states he can't say IF it will be fixed.)


Well what does it really change?
PvP opportunities will be lost. You try to lock someone up, only to realize that you forgot to reset your safety back to red. By the time to correct that, the target has warped off.

Ah ok I read what you mean now....

Greyscale...thats just a little change in the code...Do it please...I mean its possible to save every other little UI detail so if you do not implement it you simply do not want it.
If we have to change that every single time than it is just like the infamous popup window we have now...



This....because it needs be done
Kevin Emoto
No Code of Conduct
Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
#265 - 2012-11-28 22:12:29 UTC
Claire Raynor wrote:
This is all EPIC - like everything that is comming out on the 4th!! It's like EvE has really REALLY stepped up to the bar.

Love it.


your troll may be a bit too subtle.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#266 - 2012-11-29 03:13:31 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
The new safety system is pretty terrible for me, as a FW pilot in lowsec.

Case 1: In a big furball, I want to be able to shoot a neutral but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 2: In the same furball, I don't want to accidentally shoot a neutral but do because my safety didn't stop me.
Case 3: As a logi pilot, I want to rep a friendly who is "gcc" but can't because my safety won't let me.
Case 4: As a logi pilot, I don't want to accidentally rep a friendly who is "gcc" but I do because my safety didn't stop me.

My point is, the current popup system is very useful when you're in grey areas where you aren't a pure "good guy white night anti-pirate carebear" or "bad guy flashy pirate ganker." The new system will make life very difficult for morally complex people.


^This is why you tell us about these things ahead of time. You obviously can't think of all the scenarios and uses yourselves. Please fix them ASAP, preferably before the launch.

-Make the settings persist
-Keep the warning pop ups when safeties are off, with an option to permanently disable them.

How hard can it be? No, really, tell us. How hard can that be?

Thank you.

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Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#267 - 2012-11-29 09:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
Misanth wrote:
30sec is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too short log off time. Have you ever combat probed people? I have. Alot. [...]

Edit; So to summarize, the only way to catch someone who logs off during safe-system now: use a cov ops pilot, with great skills, with probes pre-launched, and a smartbomb fitted so he don't have to worry about locking the pilot when landing. Preferably he also has his friends able to arrive within 10sec (titanbridge or blob or already in system etc) as you'll die immediately if this guy clicks "aboard" and kill you. I.e. this is another small-scale PvP nerf, blob boost.

You shouldn't be able to catch someone who is not online anymore if he logged off without active timers and on a safespot. That's lame. The guy didn't do anything wrong or stupid, he just has to turn off his computer instead of staying logged in and going afk. Of course there should be a way to log off safely under such circumstances.

edit: To elaborate on this, you are crying over changes that actually are to your benefit. There are three scenarios:

1) Your target has a pvp timer at the time of logoff/disconnect
Nothing changes; you have all the time in the world to scan him down and kill him

2) Your target has a pve timer
Your situation will be vastly improved: you have five minutes to scan him down and aggress him, which will give him a pvp timer and make him stay in space indefinitely

3) Your target has no timer
Little changes; before you had one minute instead of 30 seconds to scan him down and aggress him, but you couldn't give him a pvp flag after logoff, so unless you could kill his unmanned ship within a few seconds, he'd disappear even when pointed. The 30-second-change simply sets off the fact that you can now give pvp timers to people after they have logged off, and this adjustment is absolutely sensible and needed under the new rules.

.
ANGRY23
Safety Set To Red
Train Wreck.
#268 - 2012-11-29 10:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Do the right thing and scrap this rubbish until you have actually finished the content and it can be set to persist or have an option to turn the eveoneasymode button off. The button doesnt even have its own place on the hud, its just stuck on top of % read outs which makes it look even more unprofessional and rushed. Has it even been properly tested yet?

This just reminds me of the sentrygate idea where it took a shitstorm brewing before you realise its ******** and wrong. WTF are the CSM when this idea was getting thrown around and why didnt they speak up when it came to light this content is getting added in an unfinished state?

Lots of tryed, tested, taken feedback on board content in this patch and hats off to the teams that actually did complete thier content for 4th dec and who also read threads and threads and took feedback on board and acted on it before it meets tq. Then less than a week before we're hit with this rubbish unfinished useless content thats gonna be foreced on us no matter what gets said or fedback to the designers responsible,

You're gonna find another shotstorm brewing come retribution if you ignore all the concerns and this could have the potential to take the shine of an otherwise decent release. Do you want ppl talking and bigging up all the changes or do you want them on here whining about features that got rushed in regardless of customer opinion and feedback. Do the right thing Greyscale do what the other teams do and actually llisten to the ppl that help pay your wages every month by paying for said unfinished substandard content.

Was looking forward to 4th Dec now i couldnt care less cause i know i have to be force fed a feature everytime i log in that was called as being **** before its even impllemented but was just added anyway. Im sure im not the only one.

Edit: Personal attack removed, CCP Phantom
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#269 - 2012-11-29 10:47:25 UTC
StevieTopSiders wrote:
Can a dev shed some light on where and why you appear in space after a safe log-out?

Doing some preliminary testing, I usually end up a few AU away from celestials (and where I logged out) after a safe log-out. I tried safe logging-out in a POS: on the first try I appeared near my other log-in points (not near where I logged out and a few AU away from celestials in space), but not there exactly; on the second try, I appeared back in the POS.

Thanks!

Yes, there's currently a bug on Buckingham where the location of your ship is not persisted to the DB when using the safe-logoff. This has already been fixed internally, and will probably make its way on to the test server either today or tomorrow.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Landrae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2012-11-29 11:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Landrae
This isn't a pvp whine or tears just an observation as a seasoned MMO gamer. These kind of subtle changes were how the decline of games like World of Warcraft started. And yes I know what all you forums troll's are going to say "LOL you play wow you noob." Wow was once a very decent game, the gradual decline in game quality was sparked by making the game less challenging in order to appeal to a wider audience for the purpose of increasing company profit, and as more and more expansions rolled out it just developed into a black hole of "why did I ever think this game was good?" Now I know that is blizzards new company policy by their obvious decline in their games quality across the board and I just hope and pray that this is not the direction Eve and CCP are headed.

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Veronika Kastrato
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#271 - 2012-11-29 11:35:30 UTC
lol make safety mechanics for not burning my modules rather
Andy Moo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2012-11-29 11:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Moo
I mean seriously you're saying that this won't persist when you log out so I'll have to turn off your latest creation every time I log in and there will be no way you can implement that before the patch ? Says to me that this is yet another feature you're bringing in half finished.

Can I please request that in future when you implement a new feature the first thing you work on is the disable function, test that and then continue coding your latest abomination.

Edit: Person attack removed, CCP Phantom

Hey Phantom, how does stating an opinion constitute a personal attack ? All I said was that Greyscale seems to break every feature he implements which, as far as I'm concerned, is a statement of my personal view and not an attack in any way.
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2012-11-29 12:23:03 UTC
For all the people moaning that it doesnt persist between log on times ... does it really matter ... it will take 5 seconds to perform the two clicks required to disable it, it will just an extra 5 seconds when you turn on your defensive modules as you undock.

It is dumbing down the game a bit in favour of new players and those that don't engage in any suspect activity, but increasing the retention of new players is key to keeping the game alive. This change is not something that should really put off any dedicated Vets

just my 2isk worth anyway
Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#274 - 2012-11-29 13:51:51 UTC
Masterplan: Since you are obviously following this thread, please respond to this non-persistence problem instead of pretending it's not there while answering others. Also as I said on Twitter last night, if we're to be force fed this "feature", at least have the decency to have yellow be the default, please.

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#275 - 2012-11-29 14:01:25 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
So, i'm infering from your 'safety feature' that you think the average EVE player has the intelligence of a turnip and need their hand holding



I've seen the following sentiment all over this thread.

Gaufres wrote:
So, as I see it, if I warp to the next room in a Complex or mission and my client freezes, I do not go away and the rats kill me because I have aggression and my client is frozen. Is CCP going to give me my ship back when this happens?


It seems that some EVE players are, in fact, dumb asses. Unless there's an effort made to log in hundreds or thousands of ships and shut down a node, if your client freezes and disconnects, it's because your machine sucks, or your connection sucks. Neither of which are CCP's responsibility.

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Philboyd Benoit
#276 - 2012-11-29 14:55:17 UTC
Is there a safety for combat drones in space?

.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#277 - 2012-11-29 14:57:25 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Well, if you've been shot, you can return fire without changing them Blink

That's a good point, but when I'm out roaming I like to shoot first as much as possible and with targets (unwilling or not) as rare as they are in some places, well... maybe you can see what I'm getting at. Smile


I stand corrected. I forgot that they likely need the suspect flag to trigger gate gun aggression.

For now the saving grace is that if you forget it only takes a split second to switch it to a different state.

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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2012-11-29 14:59:35 UTC
I thought the current system worked perfectly fine...meh...can't hurt to have options I guess. I think all the lowercase letters for "Time until safe logoff" looks rather dumb...should just capitalize all of them. Or at least put a period or three at the end... <----like that.

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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#279 - 2012-11-29 15:05:49 UTC
Cool!

Another feature that caters towards the stupid and ********, good job and well spent dev hours, I heard POS and various other core elements of the game work perfectly fine.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2012-11-29 15:12:03 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
For now the saving grace is that if you forget it only takes a split second to switch it to a different state.

Eh... Don't you have to "confirm" changing safety state?

I know it's not the end of the world, it's just... stupid.

CCP has no sense of humour.