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The Darieux Foundation - Seeking Funding and Research Aids

Author
Niccolo Machiavilli
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-27 12:13:14 UTC
In the name of the betterment and education of all peoples in New Eden I have founded The Darieux Foundation in the name of the honored late Ceul Darieux. Ceul Darieux was especially interested in theoretical and experimental research on artificial intelligence.

It is my aim that research be conducted into the nature and purpose of the greatest of mankind's creations - true artificial intelligence. For the first time in our species history, a new life form walks amongst us in the stars. A life form with fears, ambitions, and possibly emotions which are tied with it's sentience. It is in my humble academic opinion that it is the duty of mankind as their creators to seek them out and watch over them.

Can you imagine the confusion and fear these creatures must be going through? Can you imagine what questions they must have of their creators? What do they think of us? These questions must be analyzed with deep introspect to plot mankind's next course of action.

While we may have ushered that first spark of life into the machine, it has grown far beyond our wildest dreams into something we can no longer understand. It is in my humble academic opinion that unless an understanding of their behavior, and the possibility of peace between us explored - disaster of cataclysmic proportions awaits us inevitably.

A reoccurring element of human mythology includes creation myths in which the created destroy the creator. We must not allow hubris to cloud our judgement with a false sense of superiority. Every day new strains of drone robotics are recovered from the outer rim. Every day we are shocked at the startlingly advanced technology they are developing at an amazing pace.

There is much we can learn from these infomorphs.

That being said - I propose the creation of three long term facilities to conduct observation and study of these "rogue drones".

The first fittingly in the Ouperia system.

The second within wildspace to observe these "Sleeper Drones".

The third a research outpost in the drone regions.

If you are interested in participating in research, or are willing to provide funding for this project - please contact me and I will gladly share the details of the project.

- N. M
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-27 14:00:45 UTC
"Darieux" sounds gallente.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#3 - 2012-11-27 14:39:13 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
"Darieux" sounds gallente.


That's because it is. Ever heard of Creodon?

Your point?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-27 15:00:17 UTC
Im afraid it is gallentean tooSad

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#5 - 2012-11-27 15:10:35 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Im afraid it is gallentean tooSad


Yeah. Basically the pioneers of drone technology and artificial intelligence as we understand it today.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-11-27 15:15:02 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Im afraid it is gallentean tooSad


You remember that talk we had about obsession, Diana?

You are ill. You need help.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#7 - 2012-11-27 15:21:27 UTC
Has nobody else noticed that the name Diana has Gallentean roots?

(( OOC Note: It's directly taken from Greek mythology, a common source of names for Gallente ))

Katrina Oniseki

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-11-27 15:27:15 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Has nobody else noticed that the name Diana has Gallentean roots?


Yes, but I wasn't going to say anything. It'd probably go right over her head.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Bedlin
Caldari Organizational Logistics Department
#9 - 2012-11-27 15:59:16 UTC
To understand where I lie on this I am racially Gallente but culturally caldari and have to reconcile these views. Not to mention that we are capsuleers and live a life somewhat disjointed from before we were pod pilots.

I would like to pursue drone technology to its utmost for the sake of science and profit, however, I have seen enough holos to know where this is going.

If the drones could be controlled and allowed to breed and evolve in a controlled environment (so we could harvest their advancing technology for profit) then I would be all for it, but that was tried. In fact that's why we find ourselves referring to an area of the galaxy now as "drone region."

I think even the most respectable scientists and drone enthusiasts among us have to admit that some technology is beyond our ability to control and should be left alone. To that end you have to understand that autonomous drones do not have the same "value" system normal humans or even us capsuleers have.

From a 100,000 meter view both humanity in its various forms and the drones both look like a virus spreading across the stars, but we really are different when you get down to it. Not going to make a judgement as to who is better or worse, but I am a capsuleer and that makes me biased on my own survival.

I would rather side with the mattari extremists or the :shudder: amarrian philanthropists (don't give away things for free when you can make a profit) before I agree with allowing the drones to continue to grow unabated.

Where's the promised loot drops for Rogue Drones?    --DeMichael Crimson

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#10 - 2012-11-27 16:01:38 UTC
Niccolo Machiavilli wrote:
In the name of the betterment and education of all peoples in New Eden I have founded The Darieux Foundation in the name of the honored late Ceul Darieux. Ceul Darieux was especially interested in theoretical and experimental research on artificial intelligence.

[...]

If you are interested in participating in research, or are willing to provide funding for this project - please contact me and I will gladly share the details of the project.

- N. M


Sir;

I am pleased to hear of and support your venture. My current employ with Lai Dai Research, Biomedical and Cybernetic, prevents me from assisting your project full-time. I am a somewhat qualified decision network researcher and can assist in network analysis, pattern recognition and decomposition tasks on an as-needed basis. I can also be made available in space, though your government may not exactly appreciate my presence in the region. If you are planning any operations do let me know and I will do my best to assist your work. The Rogue Drone Problem is a serious one and one which deserves greater attention than we currently apply.

This being said, a concern.

You anthropomorphise the Rogue Drones. I myself have little doubts to their sentience and/or sapience, but their decision maps are very, very different from our own. If they have emotions they are entirely different from our own, and the shape of their thoughts are not at all like ours. The states you mention in your original post as their potential motivations are largely human feelings. Disband these thoughts, they will only cloud the path. Do not bias your work with these assumptions.

I wish you good luck, sir, and do let me know if I can be of assistance, in the lab or in the field.

- Scherezad
Research Associate, Operational Controls
Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetics
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-27 16:08:45 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Has nobody else noticed that the name Diana has Gallentean roots?


Actually, not more than yours. Or you wanna insist that your name is gallentean too?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Bedlin
Caldari Organizational Logistics Department
#12 - 2012-11-27 16:18:16 UTC
Not wanting to derail our conversation about drones, but its not surprising that most gallente and caldari names would originate from a similar line since there is the little fact that they used to be the same empire.

Where's the promised loot drops for Rogue Drones?    --DeMichael Crimson

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2012-11-27 16:23:58 UTC
Bedlin wrote:
Not wanting to derail our conversation about drones, but its not surprising that most gallente and caldari names would originate from a similar line since there is the little fact that they used to be the same empire.


The joke is in the details, dear.

Katrina Oniseki

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#14 - 2012-11-27 18:07:35 UTC
It is a shame to see discussion of what should be a purely scientific pursuit of benefit to all humanity marred by petty factionalism. I hope these volatile times will not make it impossible for you to advance your work.
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#15 - 2012-11-27 18:14:56 UTC
Niccolo Machiavilli wrote:

Can you imagine the confusion and fear these creatures must be going through?
Can you imagine what questions they must have of their creators?
What do they think of us?


Yes.

Yes.

You are Feared and Reviled. The Squishy Goo Swarm that brings Death and Anguish. But also you are Interesting, and sometimes bring New Things, New Possibilities.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Bedlin
Caldari Organizational Logistics Department
#16 - 2012-11-27 18:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bedlin
Ah, sorry didn't catch the humor, the corp has me busy running memory purges and file backups. I was browsing over the comms half paying attention.

I wonder if there is any chance that Mr. Machiavilli would consider just wiping them out as a specie and studying debris or at the very least watching how they deal with eminent threats to their continuance. If we could make them afraid, not just "pursuant of continued existence and advancement." We could find common ground and use it to our advantage, also I understand the empires have finally come to their senses and have filled a large fund to be payed out in bounties on drones now is that correct?

In my younger days before I left gallente space I did quite a lot of work with drones and found them to be interesting, but my first experience with a full blown drone hive caused me to reshape my thoughts into one of principled resistance. I don't think twice anymore about destroying them, they are like rabid animals except much smarter and much more dangerous.

Any creature that "consumes" ships, derelict , or otherwise to reproduce is a threat and the fact that a lack of that for building material will cause them to adapt to mine and refine their own materials is even more frightening.

The different empires views on them though from what I have seen is more troubling still.

Gallente seem to overwhelmingly feel a small amount of guilt on their release and still desire to study them as well as different factions among them wanting them to be eliminated (gallente never seem to be of one mind on anything, both a strength and a weakness)

My State views them as a dangerous curiosity and like most things a resource to exploit, but at least we clearly classify them as a threat.

The other two factions are dealing with each other and are blinded to the threat they actually exibit, with the exception that some amarrians side with their State counterparts and use their "uniquely destructive" weapon systems to deal with the AI threat.

Hmm... special note, if you are going to study them, take pulse laser equipped vessels, also consider taking a few amarrian carriers.

I hope I have swayed your opinion on how to handle the "sentient" machines.

Where's the promised loot drops for Rogue Drones?    --DeMichael Crimson

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#17 - 2012-11-27 18:55:03 UTC
Bedlin wrote:
Ah, sorry didn't catch the humor, the corp has me busy running memory purges and file backups. I was browsing over the comms half paying attention.

[...]

I hope I have swayed your opinion on how to handle the "sentient" machines.


It is extremely unlikely that any actions we could take would make them afraid. Fear is a mammalian response mechanism built upon earlier evolved reaction systems. Please, let's not make assumptions on these entities - they are unique, and any metaphors we might employ would only cloud the truth and mislead us.
Bedlin
Caldari Organizational Logistics Department
#18 - 2012-11-27 19:01:41 UTC
Very well then I advocate.... hmm... is it extermination? Or because they may be in some ways classified as sentient should we consider it genocide? Either way, I feel that we need to look at it from an "us or them" angle.

If as you state we cannot ascibe a common ground for us to deal with them in any sort of logical manner then my position stands by the kill them all philosophy.

Side note, wonder if the Jovians have discussions like this about all of us.

Where's the promised loot drops for Rogue Drones?    --DeMichael Crimson

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#19 - 2012-11-27 19:07:19 UTC
Bedlin wrote:
Very well then I advocate.... hmm... is it extermination? Or because they may be in some ways classified as sentient should we consider it genocide? Either way, I feel that we need to look at it from an "us or them" angle.

If as you state we cannot ascibe a common ground for us to deal with them in any sort of logical manner then my position stands by the kill them all philosophy.

Side note, wonder if the Jovians have discussions like this about all of us.


Jovians are humans, or at least of human stock, and therefore likely have some basis of understanding in how we work.

The issue with Rogue Drones is that they never were of human stock. They are alien in ways that you cannot really grasp.

This doesn't mean they should be exterminated, though I'm not surprised that this is the standard capsuleer's reaction. Rogue Drones present a wonderful opportunity for study, and can be contained. They are not an all consuming hegomonizing swarm, and therefore of very little threat to life as a whole.

However, if you end up trying to crush them, and fail, you will have another situation like you currently have with Nation. The Rogue Drones will know, with no uncertainty, that it is very much them, or you.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#20 - 2012-11-27 19:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scherezad
Bedlin wrote:
Very well then I advocate.... hmm... is it extermination? Or because they may be in some ways classified as sentient should we consider it genocide? Either way, I feel that we need to look at it from an "us or them" angle.

If as you state we cannot ascibe a common ground for us to deal with them in any sort of logical manner then my position stands by the kill them all philosophy.

Side note, wonder if the Jovians have discussions like this about all of us.


We don't know whether we can find common ground with the rogue drones. That's why this research is so important. If we can determine the rough shape of their utility function, we might be able to determine a common vector.

I imagine the Jovians have had that conversation. Whether they've been able to act upon it is another thing, but it's my unfounded suspicion that we are co-vectored.
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