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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Questions regarding logistics and stealth
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Nerji Bathana
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-26 22:55:30 UTC
Am returning to EVE after some time and am actually looks like I may get to spend more time with EVE than before as my wife is also giving it a shot. Anyway...a while back I was doing a lot of training in covert ops although I was literally just setting skills and logging out.

I am looking for some solid information out there on logistics and stealth. Are they meant to work together or are they separate things? I was training for a Helios at the time I seem to recall but am starting a new character with the wife and we're Amarr so obviously I'd need to go a different route but ultimately I am looking for information on logistics and what types of roles they fill and on stealth and if that fits with logistics or if that is a separate thing entirely.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-11-26 23:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
They don't fit together. Ships usually have bonused to one or the other. There is only one ship that can pull both off and it's a limited edition alliance tournament prize ship. Logistics is basicly being a dedicated healer/support. With the next expansion we get a good lineup of cheap logistics/support ships, so there is more of an progression for players wanting to focus on it from the start. They're ships always welcome in a fleet, but are pretty useless on their own.

Cloaking on the other hand is sneaking around and/or hiding. Cloaking is balanced by the facts, that you can't really do anything when you're cloaked, ships good at cloaking are generally weaker in combat and combat ships fitting cloaks operate at a minor disadvantage in combat and can't warp while cloaked. The combat oriented ships good at cloaking are covops, stealth bombers, recon ships, blackops and T3 ships with a proper subsystem fitted. They're good ships for sneaking around, scouting, scanning down targets and ambushing people. They're good in a fleet and for solo work, if you select your targets and know what you're doing.

PS. I don't see any reason for you to start a new character. There is no benefit for you to do so and nothing is preventing him from flying with your wifes character without issues. The skills a new character gains at the start can be bought by anyone and trained in a few hours. You can also redo the tutorials with the old character, so you're only throwing away your previous training by restarting.
Merouk Baas
#3 - 2012-11-26 23:40:44 UTC
I'd go as far as saying that anything other than generic DPS is a group affair, so your ship / role will be weaker and die easily, but will perform some needed role in a fleet. So make sure you have a group / fleet to take advantage of these roles you're training for, rather than training first and then trying to find a group to take you.

Cloaking/stealth is useful if you're trying to evade pursuers, or a gate camp, or to spy on the enemy. In a fleet, cloaked ships can position themselves beyond the enemy so that when the fleet warps to them, they land within blaster/autocannon/pulse damage of the enemy and kick ass. At the top end (Black Ops), they can open covert cynos, and jump in a whole fleet of cloaky ships to harrass the enemy. The role is for scouting, and for providing approach vectors.

Logistics are remote-repair, remote-shield, remote-capacitors. They're desirable because current NPC's and pretty much every PVP fleet focus fire, 50 ships shooting at 1, and there's no way to repair that kind of damage yourself. You need pretty much everyone else in your fleet to repair you, to offset that damage. Some fleets have remote repairers on every ship; logistics ships make the task of remote repairing less, how can I put it, you're not fighting the EVE user interface as much.

Command ships are for buffing (increased resistances, speed, cap, etc.), which obviously when you're buffing an entire fleet of 50-100 ships, 5%-20% bonus to armor and to resistances is noticeable.

Electronic Warfare / Tackling are important to PVP, and especially to small fleet encounters. 3-5 ships, if you jam the other guy at a critical moment, you can win or escape. It's not hard to train for ewar, it's only a few Electronics/Science skills, but the ships are weaker than average and always targetted first.

Hauling / industrials / freighters / jump freighters, every pilot needs to be able to move junk around. Initially, an industrial suffices, but if you're a trader who likes to move bulk stuff, a freighter may be needed. For nullsec, jump freighters are almost required.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-11-26 23:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
They don't fit together. Ships usually have bonused to one or the other. There is only one ship that can pull both off and it's a limited edition alliance tournament prize ship. Logistics is basicly being a dedicated healer/support. With the next expansion we get a good lineup of cheap logistics/support ships, so there is more of an progression for players wanting to focus on it from the start. They're ships always welcome in a fleet, but are pretty useless on their own.

Cloaking on the other hand is sneaking around and/or hiding. Cloaking is balanced by the facts, that you can't really do anything when you're cloaked, ships good at cloaking are generally weaker in combat and combat ships fitting cloaks operate at a minor disadvantage in combat and can't warp while cloaked. The combat oriented ships good at cloaking are covops, stealth bombers, recon ships, blackops and T3 ships with a proper subsystem fitted. They're good ships for sneaking around, scouting, scanning down targets and ambushing people. They're good in a fleet and for solo work, if you select your targets and know what you're doing.

PS. I don't see any reason for you to start a new character. There is no benefit for you to do so and nothing is preventing him from flying with your wifes character without issues. The skills a new character gains at the start can be bought by anyone and trained in a few hours. You can also redo the tutorials with the old character, so you're only throwing away your previous training by restarting.


Stealth and Logi can work together in 1 single case...The Etana

Okay, the ship goes for 30bil last time I checked.
It's a limited edition (AT-X price) and thus clicking that undock button means everybody in EVE will come after you.
But still, it's stealth + logi.

But besides that...read the quoted part, it's spot on

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Nerji Bathana
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-11-26 23:58:37 UTC
Thank you very much for the replies, that will help me narrow down my search for information as well.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-11-27 00:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Stealth, in EvE, refers to cloaking. You can fit standard cloaks on any ship, but they also come with heafty penalties:

A cloak reduces the sensor strength of your ship, which means it takes significantly longer to lock targets.
While cloaked, you can NOT target anything.
While cloaked, you can NOT activate any modules,
While cloaked, your ship's velocity is majorly reduced (by 50-90%).
While cloaked, you cannot warp.
Upon decloaking, you cannot lock another ship for 3-10 seconds (depending on the cloak / skills).

Covert Ops Cloaks are special cloaks that only special covert ships can use, and have less harsh penalties. The main drawbacks are still you can't target nor activate any modules while cloaked, but you CAN move at full speed and WARP while cloaked, making you much, much more maneuverable.

Logistics in EvE has two meanings:
1.) Priest/Healer. While most ships in EvE can fit remote repair (RR) modules to give cap, shields, or armor to another ship, most ships don't. In General, RR modules are only found on turtle tanking BS's or t2 logistics cruisers. With the upcoming expansion, there will be several viable t1 frigates and cruisers that will get a bonus to RR, and it will be interesting to see how prevalent they become. There are two variations of cloaky logistics ships. One is a very unique, 100 BILLION isk ship that you just won't find in PvP.... 50 of them were given out to the winners of the last alliance tournament, and at most 50 will exist... ever... The second variation, is a t3 cruiser. All t3 cruisers can be simultaneously fit with the covert reconfiguration (to fit covert cloak) and also with a remote repair bonused subsystem. Covert T3 Logistics are very rare, as the range of their RR modules is exceedingly short (<8 km), which make them very difficult to wield effectively on a dynamic battlefield. Hopefully, CCP will give the t3 logistics subsystem a boost to RR range when they to a balancing pass on t3's!

2.) Hauler. Logistics is also used to describe moving materials from point A to point B. Subcapital haulers come in many different shapes and sizes, and are generally fragile. There are two t2 variations of these haulers known as transport ships. One line-up is much more durable, and the other lineup is a covert-hauler. The covert haulers can warp while cloaked, haul up to around 10k m3, and is very useful for small scale logistics in hostile space.
Doddy
Excidium.
#7 - 2012-11-30 12:51:41 UTC
The other meaning of stealth in gaming is damage mitigation through being hard to hit and that does actually work well in eve with logistics (sig tanking). Say stealth to any eve centric player though and they will assume you mean cloaking and then no, there is no real cross-over with logistics.
Merouk Baas
#8 - 2012-11-30 12:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Sorry, wrong reply.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-12-01 02:17:48 UTC
All these people telling you that cloaking and logistics don't go together are pretty wrong.

You CAN make a cloaking logistics, it just can't warp when cloaked, which to be honest isn't really an issue. Most Black Ops oriented groups have Logis that run cloaks and either wait as a pit crew or actively warp in when the black ops gang engages to provide support.

They can't use the black ops bridges but then most true black ops groups tend to have a few vaga's, cynabals and vagas also fit with cloaks so the trip in to your expected area of operations wont be lonely.

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