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HAM Drake v HML Drake
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#21 - 2012-11-27 08:17:28 UTC
Militia bickering aside, they are reducing PG need for HAMs next patch, allowing guided missile precision to affect all subcapital close range missiles (rockets, hams, torps), and removing ship penalties from T2 missiles (javelin anyone? Big smile). Ham drake was pretty good before, but with extra fitting options and the better damage application to smaller targets with hams, in addition with the option to load javelin to kite (without slowing your ship down now :D), a HAM drake is going to become even better. I personally will probably keep both versions of the ship on hand.
Mackie Rebogio
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-12-03 14:07:43 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Militia bickering aside, they are reducing PG need for HAMs next patch, allowing guided missile precision to affect all subcapital close range missiles (rockets, hams, torps), and removing ship penalties from T2 missiles (javelin anyone? Big smile). Ham drake was pretty good before, but with extra fitting options and the better damage application to smaller targets with hams, in addition with the option to load javelin to kite (without slowing your ship down now :D), a HAM drake is going to become even better. I personally will probably keep both versions of the ship on hand.


this, the lowered pg will allow this fit, which used to need a 2% pg implant

[Drake, HAM PG2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1
Hobgoblin II x1


83k buffer and 708dps(94k and 816dps overheated)? not too shabby. definitely enjoy the changes to guided missile precision too, never fun having to deal with small stuff with hams, but this should help.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#23 - 2012-12-03 16:03:53 UTC
Thanks for the input on the changes. I personally love the ham drake but it was always hard to fit. The above fit is going to be really nice.


Now that the asbs are getting cut back so its not so easy to permatank them the drakes may be competitive again.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Seraph Castillon
In Control
#24 - 2012-12-03 16:23:47 UTC
I'm sure rebalancing will come, but it's 6 months out at best. Meanwhile we're dealing with 650 DPS at 18km, with 80k EHP. That seems borderline ridiculous to me. Low sec is gonna be fun ...
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#25 - 2012-12-03 16:55:12 UTC
If HAM drakes start popping up more, people are going to over tank KIN because people that fly drakes never have THM or EM missiles in cargo.

Now the question is, do I change slot 7 to boost assault missiles?

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
#26 - 2012-12-03 17:12:45 UTC
Schalac wrote:
If HAM drakes start popping up more, people are going to over tank KIN because people that fly drakes never have THM or EM missiles in cargo.

Now the question is, do I change slot 7 to boost assault missiles?


Not necessarily. I know plenty of Caldari pilots who fly and load EM and Thermal rounds even with ships that give a kinetic bonus....especially if they are in a fleet filled with ships that give such bonuses. Just because a bonus is there does not mean it has to be used...especially if the enemy can so easily counter it.

Arma Purgatorium - What is Podded May Never Die
Isu Okaski
The Break Room
#27 - 2012-12-03 18:56:44 UTC
subtle turtle wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


HAM drake can easily break 600 raw DPS. Keep in mind that it won't apply all of this DPS to smaller or faster ships, but the HAM drake should be flown in scram/web range to reduce the target ship's velocity.

So yes, there is a big difference between the HAM and HM drake. And yes, the HAM drake is VERY useful and worth skilling up to.

Also, you are VERY wrong about the torp raven. For PVP it is the only raven you should ever fly, cruises are worthless for everything but PVE.



Funny that you say that about cruise missiles. The day after cruise golems won $1000 in the New Eden Open!
subtle turtle
Doozer Mining Cartel
#28 - 2012-12-04 00:23:13 UTC
Isu Okaski wrote:
subtle turtle wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


HAM drake can easily break 600 raw DPS. Keep in mind that it won't apply all of this DPS to smaller or faster ships, but the HAM drake should be flown in scram/web range to reduce the target ship's velocity.

So yes, there is a big difference between the HAM and HM drake. And yes, the HAM drake is VERY useful and worth skilling up to.

Also, you are VERY wrong about the torp raven. For PVP it is the only raven you should ever fly, cruises are worthless for everything but PVE.



Funny that you say that about cruise missiles. The day after cruise golems won $1000 in the New Eden Open!


The AT or NE Open are VERY different PVP scenarios than anything on TQ. Most of the setups used aren't applicable to "real" world PVP, which is why PVP success on TQ doesn't equate to reliable success in the tournament. Also, Golem is a very different ship than a Raven, with TP bonuses as well as explosion radius bonuses. On TQ, cruise ravens apply to little real DPS to work, and missiles don't make a good sniping platform as the delay in damage application (missile flight time) negates much of their usefulness.

Of course, there are probably scenarios where the cruise Raven would be better than a Torp Raven for PVP, but as is, the Torp Raven is a much more versatile, all around useful fit.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-12-04 00:41:50 UTC
HAM Drakes have drastically inferior range but are significantly more delicious.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#30 - 2012-12-07 11:21:24 UTC
subtle turtle wrote:


The AT or NE Open are VERY different PVP scenarios than anything on TQ. Most of the setups used aren't applicable to "real" world PVP,


Which should make most of the so called "successful" and self appointed "good" pvpers think about it: am I actually good, or just a stupid fleetsheep? Did we actually win fights, or we just blobbed like ******** children?
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#31 - 2012-12-08 12:55:40 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Which should make most of the so called "successful" and self appointed "good" pvpers think about it: am I actually good, or just a stupid fleetsheep? Did we actually win fights, or we just blobbed like ******** children?

That's rather true with one exception : on TQ, you need to point the ennemy to kill it ; but once tackle is done, everything work.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-12-08 14:30:28 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
I'm sure rebalancing will come, but it's 6 months out at best. Meanwhile we're dealing with 650 DPS at 18km, with 80k EHP. That seems borderline ridiculous to me. Low sec is gonna be fun ...


If you think it is going to be 6 months you are going to be disappointed.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#33 - 2012-12-08 14:54:10 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll

and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted


No, its a 5 year-year-in-the-making balance issue that it took blobs of drakes for people to notice.

The only other REAL HML hull was the caracal, which was plagued by being a tier 2 cruiser... so everyone was just like "drake op lol". Now we have the tengu and people are like "oh sht, HML's are smashing my back doors in".
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