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HAM Drake v HML Drake
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irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#1 - 2012-11-26 11:51:42 UTC
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish

I like to have my cake and eat it too
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-11-26 12:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


There isnt a nurf, there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, blasters and pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps

No Worries
Rataxas Immortal
True RoHiKaNs
#3 - 2012-11-26 12:10:39 UTC
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish



skill up Minmatar and learn to play
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#4 - 2012-11-26 12:12:50 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


There isnt a nurf there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, blasters and pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps



You bring up an interesting point. One thing I adore on these forums is how people use balance for or against their arguments. I often here, not everything in eve has to be the same, homogenized, in line with everything else. Here you feel weapon systems are needing to be in-line with one another (which means projectiles will be nerfed soon, cause my mach kills everything) but when I ***** up a storm about how ****** the drone regions are, I get told not all space is equal and to go conquor some other space.

Id like to know more from more experienced pilots than I about the qualities of the HAM. I dont need to be told now i have to chose between arty and autocannon. Which by the way, there still is a rate of fire difference, that needs to be balanced if things are going to be in line.

I like to have my cake and eat it too
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#5 - 2012-11-26 12:14:09 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:

There isnt a nurf there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, blasters and pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps


This is the best view on the changes iv read so fare Big smile

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-26 12:18:58 UTC
HAM drake = much win.
will be even more so after patch.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Rataxas Immortal
True RoHiKaNs
#7 - 2012-11-26 12:26:19 UTC
We need new type of ship for this guy - Drakemariel - 7 Missile Slots + 7 projectiles
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#8 - 2012-11-26 12:42:17 UTC
Rataxas Immortal wrote:
We need new type of ship for this guy - Drakemariel - 7 Missile Slots + 7 projectiles



Your making my pants move, stop it!

I like to have my cake and eat it too
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#9 - 2012-11-26 13:50:13 UTC
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll

and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted
subtle turtle
Doozer Mining Cartel
#10 - 2012-11-26 14:00:00 UTC
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


HAM drake can easily break 600 raw DPS. Keep in mind that it won't apply all of this DPS to smaller or faster ships, but the HAM drake should be flown in scram/web range to reduce the target ship's velocity.

So yes, there is a big difference between the HAM and HM drake. And yes, the HAM drake is VERY useful and worth skilling up to.

Also, you are VERY wrong about the torp raven. For PVP it is the only raven you should ever fly, cruises are worthless for everything but PVE.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-11-26 14:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
irishFour wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


There isnt a nurf there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, Blasters and Pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps



You bring up an interesting point. One thing I adore on these forums is how people use balance for or against their arguments. I often here, not everything in eve has to be the same, homogenized, in line with everything else. Here you feel weapon systems are needing to be in-line with one another (which means projectiles will be nerfed soon, cause my mach kills everything) but when I ***** up a storm about how ****** the drone regions are, I get told not all space is equal and to go conquor some other space.

Id like to know more from more experienced pilots than I about the qualities of the HAM. I dont need to be told now i have to chose between arty and autocannon. Which by the way, there still is a rate of fire difference, that needs to be balanced if things are going to be in line.


There is a difference to this argument because of the difference in the mechanics and the game as a whole. HML (now, pre expansion) do arguably similar dmg to HAM's, and to an extent other relative closer range weapons, but do it out to 50-70km. This has made them "OP" in many situations AND breaks a fundamental constant in weapons (short range-high dps, long range low dps).

At the moment there is no real tactical reason to fit HAM's over HML's because you get so much more flexibility to very little loss.

Note: Projectiles in of them self's are fine. The Mach on the other hand has been waiting to be fixed for a while as it was given an unintentional double tracking bonus. CCP has already said they know of this and are looking into it.

No Worries
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2012-11-26 14:51:37 UTC
irishFour wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


There isnt a nurf there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, blasters and pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps



You bring up an interesting point. One thing I adore on these forums is how people use balance for or against their arguments. I often here, not everything in eve has to be the same, homogenized, in line with everything else. Here you feel weapon systems are needing to be in-line with one another (which means projectiles will be nerfed soon, cause my mach kills everything) but when I ***** up a storm about how ****** the drone regions are, I get told not all space is equal and to go conquor some other space.

Id like to know more from more experienced pilots than I about the qualities of the HAM. I dont need to be told now i have to chose between arty and autocannon. Which by the way, there still is a rate of fire difference, that needs to be balanced if things are going to be in line.


HAM's will do more DPS than right now and all T2 missiles will be more effective. Long story short: The HAM drake is the new HML drake. Just no 70km range.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#13 - 2012-11-26 16:43:32 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll

and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted


They will be removing a slot, was in the dev blog about the future of balancing. All tier 2 bcs are going down to 17 IIRC.
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#14 - 2012-11-26 20:44:19 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll

and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted


They will be removing a slot, was in the dev blog about the future of balancing. All tier 2 bcs are going down to 17 IIRC.



Thats ok, i dont use a top slot on my current drake

I like to have my cake and eat it too
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#15 - 2012-11-26 20:50:16 UTC
irishFour wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll

and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted


They will be removing a slot, was in the dev blog about the future of balancing. All tier 2 bcs are going down to 17 IIRC.



Thats ok, i dont use a top slot on my current drake


I can only hope that is the slot they remove. Depends on how badly they want to further nerf it.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#16 - 2012-11-26 20:51:00 UTC
irishFour wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish


There isnt a nurf there is a balance. (important difference)

Now HML's are going to be more in line with Arti's, Rails, and Beams
HAM's are closer to Auto's, blasters and pulses.

Note they are not the same as tracking weapons and still unique as missiles, its just now your going to have to choose just like the rest, do you want higher dps at lower range, or longer range at lower dps



You bring up an interesting point. One thing I adore on these forums is how people use balance for or against their arguments. I often here, not everything in eve has to be the same, homogenized, in line with everything else. Here you feel weapon systems are needing to be in-line with one another (which means projectiles will be nerfed soon, cause my mach kills everything) but when I ***** up a storm about how ****** the drone regions are, I get told not all space is equal and to go conquor some other space.

Id like to know more from more experienced pilots than I about the qualities of the HAM. I dont need to be told now i have to chose between arty and autocannon. Which by the way, there still is a rate of fire difference, that needs to be balanced if things are going to be in line.


I've flown every BC & weapon type for those BC quite a lot. I've always found that HML Drake are the most survivable BC's in the game for small gang PVP. This of course has scaled well and has been used to pretty good success with the Drake blobs of null. Really that's the biggest reason they are getting the nerf bat, is because they became too popular. (even though there are counters to them)

The difference in the uses of HML & HAM are simply what you intend to do with them. HAM's are pretty nasty up-close & personal, so they can be quite effective if you know you can get into close range of your target. (think gate camping or station fighting)

HML's on the other hand due to their range and slightly better ability to hit smaller sigs than HAM's, can have a broader spectrum of use. This is the trade off, you get a more all around weapon system that is easier to apply damage with, but you get lower damage amount.

HAMs on the other hand can put out a respectable amount of DPS in those up close entanglements. It's worth training them just to have them, but personally I use HML's almost 90% of the time on Drakes. However sometimes it's nice to have the option to switch to the HAM Drake for specific targets.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-11-26 21:21:58 UTC
chatgris wrote:
irishFour wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Hidden Snake wrote:
after the patch ... hamdrakes will be raping blaster boats ... only question will be how they gonna blast the drake hull itself Roll
and BTW drake HMLS nerf is just nullbear tear fall reaction (of some CSM members) and there is no logic in it. Twisted

They will be removing a slot, was in the dev blog about the future of balancing. All tier 2 bcs are going down to 17 IIRC.

Thats ok, i dont use a top slot on my current drake

I can only hope that is the slot they remove. Depends on how badly they want to further nerf it.

lol, if you think the drake isnt going to lose a mid slot then you are kidding yourself badly.
i would expect it to lose a mid and its resist bonus and gain another offensive bonus.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#18 - 2012-11-26 21:33:31 UTC
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish



HAMS are win. Approx 570DPS with mega tank or swap the DCII for a 3rd BCII and get 650dps.
The only BC's that are a problem for it are kiting minmatar arty fit stuff.

Nothing wrong with a torp raven either tbh. They can do excellent DPS for a T1 BS if fit correctly.

Look for my last Drake loss mail on the killboards and you will find a tough ham fit that survives well in low sec.

Yes get T2 HAMS- train the spec to 4.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#19 - 2012-11-26 21:40:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
IbanezLaney wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish



HAMS are win. Approx 570DPS with mega tank or swap the DCII for a 3rd BCII and get 650dps.
The only BC's that are a problem for it are kiting minmatar arty fit stuff.

Nothing wrong with a torp raven either tbh. They can do excellent DPS for a T1 BS if fit correctly.

Look for my last Drake loss mail on the killboards and you will find a tough ham fit that survives well in low sec.

Yes get T2 HAMS- train the spec to 4.


I dunno. I remember taking my brutix against two of your HAM Drakes in a 1v2 match and almost killed your first HAM Drake. I think you may have even had Tengu boost as well....can't quite remember.

Regardless, new HAM drake will be a decent brawler option. I just hope it is not better than a Gallente BC brawler.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#20 - 2012-11-26 23:45:43 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
irishFour wrote:
Right now,
I fly a near perfect HML drake. Its fairly effective in the engagements ive been in, admittedly very few, but still does the job as expected. With the up coming nerf to hmls (which im still unsure if the nerf is coming to t2 ammo) would it be wise to get HAM5 and spec'd out to 4.

With limited range is the HAM drake worth it?
Idk, I know in other short range missiles its not worth it. Torp raven=NO
If im already getting 450 dps out of my hml drake, How big of a difference will HAMs make.

Thanks
irish



HAMS are win. Approx 570DPS with mega tank or swap the DCII for a 3rd BCII and get 650dps.
The only BC's that are a problem for it are kiting minmatar arty fit stuff.

Nothing wrong with a torp raven either tbh. They can do excellent DPS for a T1 BS if fit correctly.

Look for my last Drake loss mail on the killboards and you will find a tough ham fit that survives well in low sec.

Yes get T2 HAMS- train the spec to 4.


I dunno. I remember taking my brutix against two of your HAM Drakes in a 1v2 match and almost killed your first HAM Drake. I think you may have even had Tengu boost as well....can't quite remember.

Regardless, new HAM drake will be a decent brawler option. I just hope it is not better than a Gallente BC brawler.



1. I don't have Tengu boosts which i told you at the time. You know both my toons - both were there in Drakes for the fight.
2. Is this what you are talking about - Was it really 1v2? How time makes our memories all shiny and stuff....

The Drake you 'nearly killed' won easily. You only got it down to about 15-20% shield cause I was already only at 40-50% from fighting the Myrm. I just wasn't silly enough to sit in both your faces at the same time and avoided your brutix until the myrm was dead - look at the times on the kills.
If the Drake keeps its resist bonus - nothing will change. If that bonus goes - Drake will be dead and kiting Hurricane will be king.
Even if Drake loses a mid slot thats OK. I just wont fit a scram and keep my fit the almost the same.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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