Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exactly. OR add another 300 million in the number of gankers required by having a logi ship or similar follow you around, and then carry not much more than 800 million, etc.

ur missing something. u shouldnt be safe in a titan in high sec. high sec is NOT safe, it is only 'relatively' safe to low and null sec.

and what kind of things do u carry? cause i fill my freighters and they only carry 600mil, if even that.

You're asking the question wrong. Your question assumes that the freighter is flown SOLO. But that is only one of two options:

IF you are flying it solo, then the point of a freighter is for moving things like ore, which are lowish value individually and high volume, and are only profitable in huge bulk.

IF you are moving several battleships and such (you can't fit capital ships, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there) around, or huge numbers of more valuable things, though, then you need to have significant escorts going with you, even in high sec.

Simple as that.



If you don't have any friends to escort you, and you still want to move valuable modules around or whatever, then the correct choice for you is to solo fly a blockade runner, or a covops frigate, depending on the volume.



Why? If it were a combat ship, then youre logic would make sense. Combat ships should be about equally matched for total price, very roughly (at least at the same tech level).

But it's not. It is a big floating metal tub for holding stuff. The price is purely due to size, not combat robustness. makes perfect sense for a lower value ship to be able to kill it easily.

This is in line with historical reality, too, by the way: a huge merchant ship, even without any cargo, was WAY more expensive than a little pirate sloop, but the sloop, with a combat crew and better guns and mobility, etc, could still easily win a fight, because the price of the sloop ALL went into combat effectiveness, and the price of the merchantmen almost ALL went into cargo hauling.

That's why large cargo ships full of gold and other valuables ALWAYS HAD ESCORTS

No i wasnt saying that. I was saying that freighter should have atleast 4bils to make it worthwhile to gank. I didnt say to not make it worthwhile. Anyways you may disagree with me. But thats my opinion. Also i was saying that freighter pilot loses too much just in hull cost compared to gankers. Which makes it win win situation for gankers atleast in the eyes of freighter pilot. Freighter pilot always lose more even with empty cargo.. Well maybe not with insurance.. Never insured one so i dont know

a hulk costs 200mil, but takes only a couple of unskilled thrashers to gank.

the cost of the ship that is ganked is irrelevent. what matters is the value of what gankers can get from ur ship.

if ur carrying enough to make it worthwhile to gank then thats ur responsibility. no one is forcing u to carry that much, or items that valuable. its all on u.

bearing in mind that roughly half ur cargo is destroyed, gankers have to wait until ur carrying almost double the value of the ganking ships before they can break even. so if they are still making a profit, whos fault is that?

i'll admit, 40 catalysts doesnt cost much, and its an impressive show of organisation. that was just unlucky for the freighter. but a few logi and especially ecm against catalysts, might have made all the difference.

Very nice vid.. Alltho its missing freighter :p

There was an all Thrasher freighter kill. It was Boat's idea, and it ended up taking about 200 Thrashers.

i'm still waiting for a way 5 or 6 logi could save me from 8-9 talos doing 3000 DPS each while the logi can only repair 500.

even with ECM, the ganker need to shoot first. and ther's often 10 of them.. how do you counter that? with 10 ECM?

So there's 10 people spending their time and their money to gank something which needs to carry around 2b to reliably break even. What's wrong with that? It's 10 people spending their time in one out of two systems, providing 0.12% of the kills in all of EVE pr 24 hours (actually it's probably less, since I don't think I counted more than a 20 hour period today), why are these 0.12% of kills so special they need to be looked at so bad by CCP?

No, the point is that nobody would BRING 8-9 talos in the first place. They're expecting you to be unescorted, so theyll bring just barely more than it takes to gank you in the number of seconds before CONCORD arrives.

I assume that you are talking about a system with about a 12 second CONCORD response time (since you have used this number previously in the thread). So 9 talos * 3000DPS * 12 seconds = 324000 EHP, which is like 70% overkill for what is needed for a freighter. Nobody would ever just throw away 3 talos that they didn't need, just to be safe. They might have like, maximum ONE extra more than they need.

In this specific example, they would more likely bring 6 talos, which gives them about 1/2 a talos of overkill as a safety margin (in order to reduce their losses to CONCORD). In this more realistic scenario, a handful of logi ships (not even as many as they have talos) could successfully defend you, because they could offset the damage of about 1 attacker (more than their safety cushion), and by the time CONCORD arrived, you would still be alive with a few hitpoints.

Alternatively, with a handful of ECM boats (let's say 3) in the same corp as you, you could disable the targeting of 3 of those talos after a few seconds. Let's say it takes you 6 seconds to get the ECM out. That would neutralize 1.5 (3 divided by half remaining time) talos' worth of their intended DPS, which would also be enough to save you with plenty of hitpoints remaining. 3 ECMers in this case would even give you a nice safety margin, because one of those could fail to jam its target, and you would STILL come out alive.