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Of High, Low and Null ... A noobs idea for encouraging movement from High Sec

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#21 - 2012-11-22 19:49:41 UTC
Fractal Muse wrote:

I have played in 0.0 a few times and each time it has been a very different experience based on the group of people I was with and our objectives. For awhile, I was a total carebear (and loved it) in 0.0, and played the most casual EVE I ever have: log in for 20 minutes, rat some belts, and log off. Made lots of ISK doing just that. That's as casual of play I can think of for any game. Play for a little here and there, have fun, do your own thing, and make in-game money doing so.


What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.

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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#22 - 2012-11-22 19:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
So, it's pretty much the exact same suggestion hundreds of people have offered in the past, and CCP has listened to many times.

Why will it work this time?

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2012-11-22 21:01:34 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Fractal Muse wrote:

I have played in 0.0 a few times and each time it has been a very different experience based on the group of people I was with and our objectives. For awhile, I was a total carebear (and loved it) in 0.0, and played the most casual EVE I ever have: log in for 20 minutes, rat some belts, and log off. Made lots of ISK doing just that. That's as casual of play I can think of for any game. Play for a little here and there, have fun, do your own thing, and make in-game money doing so.

What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.

Yeah I'm in one of those. We've had people decide to crush us for being sloppy. It didn't end well...

for them Cool

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-11-22 21:20:42 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Most highsecers simply will never touch low/null. There really isnt anything you can do to convince them to try it. Alliances offer 100% free pvp ships and training and the best rats, roids, etc. You explain to them exactly how 0.0 sov is safer then highsec due to having 10 jumps of intel between you and any hostiles, yet they still refuse to try it. You explain that even a noob with half a brain will make more isk in 0.0, counting his losses, then he would highsec, but he still doesn't care.



No one has ever said that to me before and I have looked into joining a few corps a while back.

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.
Skorpynekomimi
#25 - 2012-11-22 21:33:26 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.


And that's why highseccers won't go to null; they don't like being ordered around.

In a large alliance, I don't see it unusual that phone numbers will be required at some point; someone anchors an SBU, someone rings you up and tells you to get out of bed/drop what you're doing and stand to.

OP has some good ideas, but doesn't seem to know how EVE and the economy work. I do agree that belts being on the map is a bad thing for low/null, though.
Maybe just remove static belts and go only with grav sites that have to be scanned down/bookmarked?
Maybe alter the industry anchorables in null so that they can generate bookmarks or something.

Economic PVP
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-11-22 21:34:20 UTC
Ritsum wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Most highsecers simply will never touch low/null. There really isnt anything you can do to convince them to try it. Alliances offer 100% free pvp ships and training and the best rats, roids, etc. You explain to them exactly how 0.0 sov is safer then highsec due to having 10 jumps of intel between you and any hostiles, yet they still refuse to try it. You explain that even a noob with half a brain will make more isk in 0.0, counting his losses, then he would highsec, but he still doesn't care.



No one has ever said that to me before and I have looked into joining a few corps a while back.


I've been in a couple and none of that has been true. You pay for your own ships and the space can't sustain most of the members, so many play quite a bit in highsec or lowsec with alts anyway. You mainly undock with your main, if there is a decent chance of actual fighting happening or your space isn't crowded during that time of the day. It just isn't all that appealing place to spend large amounts of time in, if you have a good variety of things you want to do when you log in.
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-11-22 21:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Auric Veldfinger
Risk vs Reward is one problem.

I was bored so I did some Lvl 4 distribution mission in low tonight my result was 3,542,000 ISK per hour and 6018 LP per hour. I was in a t1 industrial, flying paper bag. What are the point of these missions, why do they exist and who does them? I genuinely cannot see. Standings grinding possibly, I did not keep track of that.

Low ores, pointless.

The other problem I see if that the difference between hi and low is too steep. Security should be graduated out the lower the system,, not suddenly fall off at 0.5. There should be no popup on entering a system to scaremonger people, the distinction between hi and low would not exist, there would simply be higher sec and lower sec.
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-11-22 21:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Auric Veldfinger
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.


And that's why highseccers won't go to null; they don't like being ordered around.

In a large alliance, I don't see it unusual that phone numbers will be required at some point; someone anchors an SBU, someone rings you up and tells you to get out of bed/drop what you're doing and stand to.

OP has some good ideas, but doesn't seem to know how EVE and the economy work. I do agree that belts being on the map is a bad thing for low/null, though.
Maybe just remove static belts and go only with grav sites that have to be scanned down/bookmarked?
Maybe alter the industry anchorables in null so that they can generate bookmarks or something.


This is what low should be, for the recalcitrant types who do not like being a small cog in a big machine. I assume that the point of low was to be a wild west type place, but it's more like a ghost town or ghetto, and you have to deal with gate gun and sec status rubbish, and what is to pirate anyway. Piracy doesn't pay off, you need people to go out there to own the saloons and be part of a gold rush etc. I can't speak to FW because I have nothing to do with it, but I understand there are FW alliances and such, which doesn't really go with the wild west theme.
nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-11-23 03:48:15 UTC
ok heres my view on life in 0.0

Ive been there some and i was with razor two years ago. I hated it i could not play the way i wanted to i had to give what play time i had to the allince and there ops.

My view and my view only you go 0.0 you playing for the alliace not yourself anymore.

I log in to play for fun not live in game. ive made good friends playing eve they are the reason i log in everyday to joke around with and play the game.

my life in 0.0 all be it short was hell i hated it that why i live in high sec do as i like and when i feel like it i head low or null sec.

i have looked at joining another null allinace and they wanted the same thing we call for a ops and your not at work you be loged in and ready to fight. F that its a game not my life ill play when i feel like it and how i like to play.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#30 - 2012-11-23 03:55:14 UTC
Don't join corps/alliances that force you to do things that you don't like. Problem solved.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#31 - 2012-11-23 04:04:49 UTC
Here is a little story.

around 2 years ago a small band of anarchists gathered 200 super caps and went on a spree of destruction that impacted thousands of players. They wiped out Sov and NAP blocks that had been around for years. There are plenty of rumors as to how they did it but they did do it.

CCP then came in with their mighty nerf bat and shut them down, after the damage was done but none the less, they did come. They also took a look at the wallets of the people who gathered the small by comparison to their enemy fleet and ended up freezing trillions of ISK.

Everyone applauded.

Fast forward 2 years.

15 guys sit in Uedama for 8 hrs a day, every day just before down time and wipe out massive wealth day in day out. Most of the time they spend docked up and AFK. Jumping in to action only when a soft target pokes its head out and can be mutilated. 15 or so guys impacting thousands.

If the original group of 200 had been left unchecked, hadn't been nerfed and hadn't been stopped the 15 guys sitting in Uedama doing what they do wouldn't be sitting in Uedama doing what they do. They would be sitting in null faction crying in their beer because 200 guys took all their space.

Butterfly effect CCP.

Your mess because you stepped in here but not there. There but not here.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#32 - 2012-11-23 04:09:49 UTC
The biggest problem in low and null is the warp disruptor and warp scrambler :)

As long as they exist, people will not be likely to move into low or null. I mean they will remain as undeveloped and desolate as they are now

o/
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#33 - 2012-11-23 04:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Fractal Muse wrote:

I have played in 0.0 a few times and each time it has been a very different experience based on the group of people I was with and our objectives. For awhile, I was a total carebear (and loved it) in 0.0, and played the most casual EVE I ever have: log in for 20 minutes, rat some belts, and log off. Made lots of ISK doing just that. That's as casual of play I can think of for any game. Play for a little here and there, have fun, do your own thing, and make in-game money doing so.


What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.


Then find another group. theres plenty of casual groups out there you just need to find them. I can't say anything for major alliances but from what i've seen of smaller corps/alliances, laid back and play for the fun of everyone seems to be the majority. Some groups are indie some are PvP some are PvE some do it all. In the end i've seen casual and/or fun groups for each of those including the alliance i'm in. Cool

Edit: Here's the issue for some hisec players. They don't like the idea of being shot at. Until they realize that PvP can be fun or avoided in low and null they won't go there. If anything they need to accept the idea they will most likely lose ships in order to move there

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#34 - 2012-11-23 04:43:40 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:

Then find another group. theres plenty of casual groups out there you just need to find them. I can't say anything for major alliances but from what i've seen of smaller corps/alliances, laid back and play for the fun of everyone seems to be the majority. Some groups are indie some are PvP some are PvE some do it all. In the end i've seen casual and/or fun groups for each of those including the alliance i'm in. Cool

Edit: Here's the issue for some hisec players. They don't like the idea of being shot at. Until they realize that PvP can be fun or avoided in low and null they won't go there. If anything they need to accept the idea they will most likely lose ships in order to move there


I will tell you how it goes. I, like most, would be perfectly happy to pew pew during the week end (when RL actually gives time) and do other stuff for the corp / alliance during the week, when we can't stand ready for "the call to arms".


Sadly it's not so easy to find a corp that does not suck (i.e. like renters) yet allows their members some freedom. You either find a disorganized cluster of noobs that get despised by everybody around and sacrificed + crushed at the first chance or you find a "your life now is OURS" corp where you have to attend or log off.

Of course there are exceptions but they also have odd requirements like i.e. joining social newtworks one can't care the less about or with alien playerbase.

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Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#35 - 2012-11-23 04:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:

Then find another group. theres plenty of casual groups out there you just need to find them. I can't say anything for major alliances but from what i've seen of smaller corps/alliances, laid back and play for the fun of everyone seems to be the majority. Some groups are indie some are PvP some are PvE some do it all. In the end i've seen casual and/or fun groups for each of those including the alliance i'm in. Cool

Edit: Here's the issue for some hisec players. They don't like the idea of being shot at. Until they realize that PvP can be fun or avoided in low and null they won't go there. If anything they need to accept the idea they will most likely lose ships in order to move there


I will tell you how it goes. I, like most, would be perfectly happy to pew pew during the week end (when RL actually gives time) and do other stuff for the corp / alliance during the week, when we can't stand ready for "the call to arms".


Sadly it's not so easy to find a corp that does not suck (i.e. like renters) yet allows their members some freedom. You either find a disorganized cluster of noobs that get despised by everybody around and sacrificed + crushed at the first chance or you find a "your life now is OURS" corp where you have to attend or log off.

Of course there are exceptions but they also have odd requirements like i.e. joining social newtworks one can't care the less about or with alien playerbase.
In honesty CTAs are understandable. If a blue POS is being RFd or someone's coming to boot you from your home (where almost all your **** is) why wouldn't you try to stop it from happening? Either you face them or pack up and leave

(Though i wouldn't be up for constant CTAs every day every minute just to find out the fight you prepped for wasnt even going to happen either)

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#36 - 2012-11-23 05:28:11 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
In honesty CTAs are understandable. If a blue POS is being RFd or someone's coming to boot you from your home (where almost all your **** is) why wouldn't you try to stop it from happening? Either you face them or pack up and leave

(Though i wouldn't be up for constant CTAs every day every minute just to find out the fight you prepped for wasnt even going to happen either)


I understand CTAs are understandable, but:

1) Some people just can't play for 2-4 hours "on demand".
2) Others might like EvE a lot but not be good PvPers at all or just don't like (spaceships) PvP. I put (spaceships) because EvE has many forms of PvP that don't involve spaceships and some guys like that.

Is EvE just a game to quit for them? Because they certainly are depicted as not welcome in this game - expecially by elite-minded 0.0 players.

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Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#37 - 2012-11-23 08:14:05 UTC
Lol... Nice Laugh Thx OP.... But keep you're ideas to yourself :P

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-11-23 08:20:57 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

What 0.0 corp lets you play 20 minutes and be totally casual? I can't see them surviving more than one month, that is when some neighbour notices a sloppy corp and decides to crush it under their boots.

Even the best 0.0 corps I or my alts have been into, always demanded something and that something was some sort of PvP / CTA / structures shooting / something boring to hate.


And that's why highseccers won't go to null; they don't like being ordered around.



Of course they are not.

But they like having everything given them on the silver platter with no effort from them expected ( like defending space )
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-11-23 08:35:48 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
In honesty CTAs are understandable. If a blue POS is being RFd or someone's coming to boot you from your home (where almost all your **** is) why wouldn't you try to stop it from happening? Either you face them or pack up and leave

(Though i wouldn't be up for constant CTAs every day every minute just to find out the fight you prepped for wasnt even going to happen either)


If a corp has to call CTA's to get anything done, it begs the question: why do they have to do that? Why don't their members want to defend their corp/alliance assets? Has the corp/alliance ever attempted to ask rather than order?

Personally I wouldn't join any corp or alliance that had mandatory anything as far as in-game activities go. Your time in Eve is your own, and any corp or alliance that doesn't respect that probably isn't worth your effort.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-11-23 09:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
I've tried null several times, never stayed long. First off and I will tell people this straight up front, I will not be calling in sick, skipping RL events or setting my alarm clock in time for an op. (If you knew me IRL you'd know I get up when I'm supposed to and if I set my alarm clock early, i'll just sleep through it anyway).

There were several reasons why I didn't stay, first off I spend most of my EVE time roaming for fights, what I want from my corp/alliance is wingmen or backup in case I find something juicy but too big to handle with 1-3 ships. If I'm around I will gladly fleet up for ops but I won't make special plans to be on for one either.

In null people seemed too preoccupied with how much money they could make to leave to come after what I've found, they get tons of kills when they wake up for the op anyway who cares about 6 kills now, right? Even worse sometimes the fact I was shooting players at all caused tension, people didn't want me to pick up a tail and have it follow me home. Even when getting intel of roaming gangs and a few of us would set up a bubble people would complain that our bubble is slowing their ratting down. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................

Far as I'm concerned the fact that me and my wingmen didn't awox them all as we left is more than they really should have asked for. This was several years ago when roaming 0.0 gangs were more common. We diverted or destroyed many hostile roams and all we'd get is bitching that our bubbles are hurting our alliancemate's ISK/hour. Perhaps they would have preferred to deal with the gank squads. Since I left and went back to roaming based out of low sec I'll never know how it worked out for them other than the fact that they no longer control any space.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.