EVE General Discussion

I could agree for the Hulk, but saying that Macks tank was fine is totally dumb. With an Hulk you could sacrifice all the efficiency to get some tank and hope to survive, with a Mack it was just an exercise of frustration and also explained why almost half of the ice mining ships were not Macks.

As for the "tank around same as a curse", it's not like a Curse has a transatlantic sized signature, 80m/s top speed, 17s align time and is tied to a rock.

A Curse is also a combat boat. A mining barge is a ship built for a singular purpose: to mine ore. Combat should be left to the escorts. Barges should at most have enough health to bail when trouble knocks, and they pretty much did. Boosting their fitting resources a bit to allow cruiser-sized buffer mods would have been a better solution, but CCP chose to give them a built-in super-tank instead.

If that's the path they chose to follow, then how about giving all combat ships built-in mining bonuses as well? Why should miners have ships that can both tank and mine without having to train for combat, but other players can't have ships that can both tank and mine without having to train for mining? Such game design amounts to dumbfounded chop logic.

In reference to your second post above:

I can't make the association between pvp combat and being hardcore. Plenty of people (myself included) play solely for pvp, but don't spend a whole lot of time in the game. On the other hand, there are bears who drop double-digit hours every day, and spend that entire time stripping .9 Veldspar. Being hardcore has nothing to do with how you play a game, and everything to do with how seriously you take it.

The new crimewatch should be awesome.
People will be paying isk to come to you and die because you killed someone earlier. No more boring roaming. Delivery to the door.

The more you gank/kill - the more chance of some idiot buying the kill right and coming to die and give you free loot.

I don't know how many time ive said this when nerfing/ganking/piracy/general nastyness/fun is asked for - Be careful what you wish for.
Too late now - the wish has come true and now it will bite your asses if you actually act upon it.

99% of pilots in Black Rise will have a field day with anyone who comes to try and claim bounties on them.
If you do come - I recommend fitting lots of expensive faction modules to increase you chances of winning.

OR
It could work out that kill rights will rarely be sold or acted upon(just like now) so a lot of the bickering about it might be pointless.

But I predict lots of dead ships and pods that belonged to 'bounty hunters'.

CCP has given the carebears a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I agree with this 100%. My reason for arguing against these changes isn't because I'm scared of consequences, but because I see just how flawed and futile this system is going to be. At the end of the day, the majority of its usage will come from people who derp around with the system to scam others for cash and kill mails. Ganking will continue because gankers don't care about being shot on their -10 alts. And of course, the bears will whine ever more, because the changes they put so much faith and hope in will prove to be deadly for the very people they were made to protect. And that last bit is the important one, because it will lead CCP further down the path of nerfing empire pvp.

The base ehp was close to a curse and both would die to a single gank catalyst if they fitted no tank. The mack could fit a tank that made it unprofitable to kill and still had the room for for an mlu.

but they didn't. saying that now is irrelevant. unless you have a time travel machine

The 'highsec problem' isnt caused by low or high being too lucritive, or not enough.

The problem is players are trained from the moment they join the game that NPC's are there to save them. They view 0.0/low as 'where the assholes are' and they completely avoid it, because, they say to themselves, "i'm not an *******, im a nice person". CONCORD is there to save them all, and when it fails, its because CCP hasnt fixed them yet.

Making 0.0 or highsec richer or poorer wont change any of this. The problem needs to be approached at a social/cultural level.
If we could train highsec bears that they need player combat support to protect their mining ships, they would be exposed to this reality early on, and not simply wonder why CONCORD didnt show up in time.

I'm not entirely sure how to accomplish this in a way that would be 'best for everyone', but i have a few suggestions.
1) Significantly increase concord's response time, making them get there much much later. Like 2 or 3 minutes later.
2) Add CONCORD ships that spawn immediatly that do nothing but lock down the situation, perhaps pointing any criminal ships in the area
3) Buff exhumers with a massive tank, on par with battleships perhaps.

What this would do is eliminate 'suicide ganking' with catalysts yes, however it would increase the oppertunity for 'real' pirating with 'real' ships. It would also give the bears a chance to defend themselves via remote repairs, falcons, etc.

Again, i havent exactly thought this suggestion out much, but this is the angle in which this problem needs to be approached. Not simply buffing CONCORD some more and making pirates killable by anyone any time.

OR

1) REMOVE CONCORD.
2) Allow all players to shoot anyone with bad security
3) NPC police to spawn to support after x ammount of time if criminals have not left the area.

This would give pirates the ability to commit crimes without CONCORD to punish them, but it would also make room for white knight players to engage them.
At first, this will probably be rough for the bears i admit, however once the white knights organize themselves, i think we would see a very dynamic justice system, carried out by the players alone. NPC's could always be thrown in if the system detects an imbalance, but not CONCORD NPC's.

I'm going to go ahead and openly admit that you're the first person I've met who can say this stuff better than I can.


I've done this with some people I've met throughout the years. An interesting thing happened with a good chunk of them. They become awesome pvpers, and awesome EVE players in general. Some of these people became, and still are, my most-trusted EVE friends and corp members. They would have quit otherwise.

To be fair, the success rate for this type of strategy is very low. I've tried to help countless people after destroying them during wars or ganks. Only a very small percentage responded positively. Most were dismissive, and some hateful. I think it says a lot about modern gamers in general.

PS: The second idea is superior, in my eyes. Players should police players. Heck, I think even missions rats should be replaced with actual players, in the sense that missions send you off to collect a kill mail and/or bounty of some criminal player. Of course it will never happen, but I think it would do wonders for evolving player interaction in this game.

Don't be a tool - that's not what I said and you know it. Unless you don't understand English...

There's not a single EvE ship that is not a combat ship. Combat happens.




I have tried the "escorts" thing. Do you know why it does not work? It's EFFING BORING! You got to stand there like an idiot for 8 hours for the attack that never came. Who is going to waste their pass-time to sit in a belt corner waiting for possible attacks? Even at the top of the GS sponsored Hulkageddon (the best time to earn by mining) their attack would happen max twice a day (KBs talk) per system.




Last time I checked, I had to train appropriate non-mining skills for tanking.
Also, your sentence is a bit odd. It's like wondering how unfair is for truck drivers to also carry stuff, when car drivers had to learn how to drive in a road. Both need the "common" stuff, if the car drivers don't come with a 20 tons trailer it's not because truck drivers are imbalanced.





It comes sorts of natural, because the PvP peeps tend to be competitive and in order to compete they train more and put more effort than the others.

However what I only see in EvE is some players being fanatic at imposing onto the others "the right way" to play, any other option equals to bad names.