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How BF3's turn for the worse resembles EVE's

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#261 - 2012-11-25 10:16:50 UTC
Andski wrote:
The intent of these changes is to curb hisec ganking. Pretending otherwise is silly.



Actually, I have some options for you.

~ Using a Blockade runner, align to station on approach to can, loot and spam dock when in range.

~ Using a tanked Iteron V or Mammoth with a decent cargo capacity, park between can and Freighter, jettison safe cans, then cycle the cargo into them while the Iteron becomes the target, the Freighter can safely loot.

~ Use Bumpers to push potential hostiles out of Warp Disrupt range of Looting Freighter who is webbed and Aligned to warp.

Funny how these things are not only transferable, but one can easily come up with new ideas. I like the first and second; the third seems a bit involved. As I don't recall if you can directly transfer from a loot can to a jet can, I hesitate to suggest using a Rifter for the second activity.
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#262 - 2012-11-25 10:59:59 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


1) Stop ganking those freighters if you believe so and sit watching. I am sure that others will do it in your place.
2) The barges EHP buff is both a good thing and a tragedy.

- It's a good thing because ships should be killed based on their unwary owners carrying valuable stuff not because the bare hull is precious yet illogically unprotected. So, logically speaking, this has been a step ahead.

- It's a tragedy because they should have put a credible other risk in place of what they removed. IE make T2 mining mods valuable enough to make it worth killing those ships. IE shift the "I should gank this guy" decision from the bare hull to the contents or mods. Shift, not remove.




The bare hull was never profitable to gank. We did require them to fit the expensive mining mods and no tank to make it profitable.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#263 - 2012-11-25 12:00:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
The problem isn't the PvE player, the problem is the players with a lack of balance, wanting über-easy kills for no other reason than to pad a KB and grief others.


Um, what? Freighter ganking is pretty balanced - it takes several players working in near-unison to pull it off.

Frig scans cargo, sees it has expensive items. Gankers lock target while it is on its 40 second spool up time or 15km at 100 m/s trip to gate and fire, someone scoops the wreck. WOW that sounds so complicated...

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#264 - 2012-11-25 12:02:19 UTC
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#265 - 2012-11-25 12:08:23 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience.

You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2012-11-25 12:10:47 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience.

You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it.


We are able to do it because people find not putting 5 to 50 billion isk into their hold as complicated as brain surgury.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#267 - 2012-11-25 12:24:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience.

You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it.


We are able to do it because people find not putting 5 to 50 billion isk into their hold as complicated as brain surgury.

Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#268 - 2012-11-25 12:30:03 UTC
Schalac wrote:

Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do.


I used the exact same line you did and we do it because of the fantastic amount of isk. It took a month before the first post about our antics was posted by someone who lost their freighter.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#269 - 2012-11-25 12:50:12 UTC
It doesn't really matter what I think or what any of us think. If CCP liked EVE Online better with early 2005, care bearless subscription numbers they can see to it all the nasty filthy care bears make for the cancel sub button. Then we can see "who built EVE".

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#270 - 2012-11-25 14:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Schalac wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you think it's so easy, feel free to go ahead and try it. You can report back to us with your experience.

You act like it is brain surgery to gank someone. Protip it isn't, that is why all you nubs are able to do it.

Have you tried?

Ioci wrote:
It doesn't really matter what I think or what any of us think. If CCP liked EVE Online better with early 2005, care bearless subscription numbers they can see to it all the nasty filthy care bears make for the cancel sub button. Then we can see "who built EVE".

Just fyi EVE was growing at something like a 150% yearly rate back then. I somehow seriously doubt only escaped prison inmates and mental asylum patients were signing up back then either.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Prince Kobol
#271 - 2012-11-25 15:39:39 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You guys really don't get that the new kill rights system won't affect ganking at all, do you? That we're simply going to use gank alts exclusively, and since they can be shot at all times already, our bottom lines won't change? That the only people getting affected by these changes will be low-sec pvpers, mercenaries who gank as part of contracts, and newbies who accidentally attack people in high-sec? Blows right past your meagerly-brained noggins, huh?

Do you even know what we're planning to do after Retribution? If you think ganking is a problem today, give us a month. I'm tender and moist just thinking about the threads GD is going to be filled with before the year is over.



Hmm.. If a computer game makes you this excited I think you need to seek professional help Big smile

Carebear rage is the only thing that gets me off anymore.


and yet its still only a game :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#272 - 2012-11-25 15:44:41 UTC
Schalac wrote:
Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do.


Well I don't know about you, but I play computer games when I have nothing better to do. Isn't that the whole point?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#273 - 2012-11-25 16:32:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


1) Stop ganking those freighters if you believe so and sit watching. I am sure that others will do it in your place.
2) The barges EHP buff is both a good thing and a tragedy.

- It's a good thing because ships should be killed based on their unwary owners carrying valuable stuff not because the bare hull is precious yet illogically unprotected. So, logically speaking, this has been a step ahead.

- It's a tragedy because they should have put a credible other risk in place of what they removed. IE make T2 mining mods valuable enough to make it worth killing those ships. IE shift the "I should gank this guy" decision from the bare hull to the contents or mods. Shift, not remove.




The bare hull was never profitable to gank. We did require them to fit the expensive mining mods and no tank to make it profitable.


I beg to disagree. A completely stripped Mack would still yield me an average of 1 x 16M salvage piece.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#274 - 2012-11-25 16:33:17 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Schalac wrote:
Don't use that tired line. The only reason you are doing it is so you can shout on the forums look at me, look what I can do. It's because you are a bunch of asses that have nothing better to do.


Well I don't know about you, but I play computer games when I have nothing better to do. Isn't that the whole point?

Except your stated goal is the ruin of other peoples playtime and, if you can, bring down EVE so that noone can play it. I see goons in every MMO, taking part in the same asshatery that happens here. Unlike everyone else CCP allows it for some reason. I honestly don't understand how your alliance isn't banned. Never anywhere have I seen a bigger collection of douchebags running rampant in a game. And it is not new, when you guys sacked delve in 09, every other word in local was f*g or n*gg*r. You are a blight on gaming as a whole and your supposed reason for doing what you do is not to make EVE better. Infact it is quite the opposite. So please spare us all the hoopla about how badass you are at suiciding ships in highsec and go back to your little corner of 0.0 and nap it up in your plex fleets and moon mining operations.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2012-11-25 18:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Risien Drogonne
Andski wrote:

Actually, these changes are almost certainly meant to curb freighter ganking. Trying to deny that is just silly.

Actually, you can still gank freighters like you always did.

It's giving players more power to PvP in high-sec. That's what gankers have been asking for for years anyway. For some reason, they just expected all the power to swing their way instead of against them.

But then we already know gankers gank because they're risk-averse carebears, not real PvPers.

Andski wrote:
CCP understands: freighter pilots are dumb, they want to autopilot their net worth between market hubs and straight through choke points.

CCP understands: gankers want guaranteed, easy profit with no risk other than losing your cheap ship, like a car trade-in.

Andski wrote:
They shouldn't be inconvenienced when somebody smarter than they are decides to take them out.

Gankers shouldn't be inconvenienced by people being able to fight back! Or when someone smarter decides to take them out.

Andski wrote:
It's an acceptable tradeoff: make the game more idiot-friendly, cross your fingers for new subscriptions, nerf other things or declare them exploits when it doesn't work out the way you hoped.

Come on... you're the one asking for the hand-holding here. All CCP is doing is giving more power to players to police high-sec instead of relying on Concord. YOU want high-sec PvP to remain the car trade-in, where you scan a ship, and then unless you're stupid you're guaranteed a profit for your actions, for a small cost. YOU want the carebear paradise. YOU want your victims to be constrained by Concord from seeking vengeance, or breaking up your little ganker gang. YOU are hiding behind the NPCs.
Tortise Winkle VonDudenberg
Doomheim
#276 - 2012-11-25 18:19:22 UTC
Eve's Destiny has been Corrupted.

Who is to blame?

CCP is the one to blame. Not the gankers who think its ok to take what isnt theres, Not the bears who think its ok to travel with 50bill in an non-escorted freighter. Eve's PVE forces the goons and others to gank. Why grind isk for 20 hours when we can gank a freighter and have all that isk right now? The ability to make isk is not hard but takes a ton of time. And if you need to amass a huge amount of it, better pack a lunch. Granted one could make the isk (in time) but why when the aforementioned ability is present, Right now. The bounty thing wont effect ganking because most hisec dwellers are scared to fight anyway. So trying to force them to "white knight" is silly and sure to backfire.

Where does this freighter isk come from?

The isk we see in these freighter ganks is nullsec complex loot (or at least a good portion of it). Where else can you score Pith x-type mods Or Corelli a-type EANM's? Who owns the space with these flashy mod drops? Yeah. You guessed it. The same guys doin the ganking. This whole topic and crimewatch in general is all about the mighty isk. Just as in real life. Everything revolves around isk, Weather its being destroyed or attained CCP keep us fighting for it every second we're logged in.

What causes things to change?

If an isk faucet gets turned off, Players find another to turn on. Just as with the incursion nerf and FW. People will find easier ways to make the isk they need. Whether its through ganks or mining ops. Both sides are to blame for eve's current state. Everyone is lazy. And no one wants to put in the time nec. to make the isk needed to fund w/e is planned down the pipe. Most of the reaosn lies behind the amount of time it takes to acquire said isks.

Did freighter ganks happen in hisec before the nerfs mentioned? Yes. but not nearly as much as now. Why? Because easy ways to generate isk that didnt take a fleet of 12 or more are not present. 10/10 complexes are not soloable (most of them). So why bring a fleet of 5 when the pay is goin to be only enough for 1? Instead we bring no one to do the complex, Wait for some bear to doit and plenty of others then gather a fleet to gank the whole bundle.

Why change anything?

All of this revolves around the time it takes to acquire a substantial amount of isk. Ask gankers why they doit. Most responses are not going to be "because its fun" they will be "because there is easy isk to be made in it". And what do we all need? ISK.

I have recently started to call eve Time Sink Online. CCP wants people have to play more and do repetitive tasks for very little gain. This is the way it is in hisec and nullsec. And just so happens how it is in every game. The Devs want us to spend all of our time trying to get somewhere. But here we are yelling and blaming each other. Im a PVPbear. Caring about the state of everyones game. I like to PVE and PVP. And the amount of time spent worrying about who is making isk faster or more efficiently is always directed at the players opposite of your playstyle. When it should really be focused upon CCP for giving us such time consuming ways to enjoy the game they created. Give us More PVE content in Hisec Lowsec and Nullsec (WH included). PVP will happen as it always has. We are human. We strive for conflict. Even in areas where conflict shouldnt exist.

We are wasting our time yelling at eachother about being "right". For to long have we ran the same damsel in distress mission. or killed yet another wave of the same sleepers, or thwarted another incursion by the nasty sansha, or laid waste to yet another whole belt of roids, Or formed up for yet another timer. Nullsec is a wasteland due to the timers and difficulty in general of how hard it is to make isk in hostile space. There is a severe lack of people willing to spend any considerable amount of time doing the same thing over and over and over. Even in the real world. Everyone wants what they want now. We live in the now generation ive heard said numerous times.

Both sides are right and wrong, and are fighting the wrong enemy. The real enemy here is CCP!
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#277 - 2012-11-25 19:41:55 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


Ioci wrote:
It doesn't really matter what I think or what any of us think. If CCP liked EVE Online better with early 2005, care bearless subscription numbers they can see to it all the nasty filthy care bears make for the cancel sub button. Then we can see "who built EVE".

Just fyi EVE was growing at something like a 150% yearly rate back then. I somehow seriously doubt only escaped prison inmates and mental asylum patients were signing up back then either.


EVE was growing, l33t PvP Null Sec wasn't. The decline didn't begin last week. It started back when the whole monocle gate red herring came out. Two other things happened leading up and during that as well.

- Provi was lost to NBSI and Northern Coalition got zerged by PL

It was after that EVE began to decline. When all the "evil carebears" were driven out of null. And now they are being driven out of high sec. All that other emo sensationalism, keep it to yourself.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Kytayn
Kronos TEchnologies
#278 - 2012-11-26 00:11:55 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
{{snip...}}
I'm simply pointing out that pirating/low/null is actively being nerfed... {{snip....}}

Wait, wait, wait... So you're against facing consequences, like not being able to collect insurance payouts when you raise the ire of Concord. You're against the consequences of concerted pirating? What do you think happens in the real world when pirates get too uppity? In a cold, heartless world the powers that be wake up a bit and lay low them that misbehave when they can catch them.

Granted, all of that assumes your premise is true, that low, null, and the pirating profession are being nerfed. They aren't.

Be careful in Pulsar systems, you might get Pod Flu.

(Bio for YouTube reading)
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#279 - 2012-11-26 05:36:01 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:

You've picked up a heavy PVP videogame, decided you want to PVE in it, and complain that you get blown up too easy.
Do you see me in Hello kitty online complaining that all the PVE'ers are ruining the game? No. I didnt join a PVE game, because i want to PVP. Why did you join a PVP game to PVE?


Perhaps CCP realized that there are simply not enough hard core PVPers to make the company highly profitable, and that they need to make the game have different areas, to appeal to different player types, with different play styles. Perhaps EVE is no longer a highly PVP oriented game, and is a more balanced game which accommodates more people with a wider variety of play styles.



There are PLENTY of PVPers that want to PVP. So, go PVP with each other.

What I do not understand is why those that want to PVP insist on being able to PVP against those players that have no interest in PVP. What's that matter? You really suck at PVP, so can't win a fight against someone that is ready and looking for a fight... so you prefer to only PVP against those with no interest in PVP, that are not ready for or looking for a fight?


I have not heard that CCP plans to remove your ability to PVP against other players that want to PVP against you. If two people want to fight, CCP is very PRO them fighting.

What I've seen is CCP reluctant to let the people that want to PVP again non-PVPers, force the non-PVPers out of the game.


So, if you want to PVP, go PVP against other players that want to PVP, and stop trying to push all the non-PVPers out of the game.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#280 - 2012-11-26 06:10:42 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
So, if you want to PVP, go PVP against other players that want to PVP, and stop trying to push all the non-PVPers out of the game.


No.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["