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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#621 - 2012-12-15 22:10:16 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Where we stand right now is that we have a successful idea for WiS, a detailed pre-production plan and the right people to implement it properly into EvE.
As I mentioned earlier, WiS is "shelved", not, and I re-iterate, not, completely and utterly abandoned to a dark depth that only Cthulhu could descend to.


It was being worked on in 2008 when I started. 4 years with zero playable content is an utter failure, and categorizing it as anything else is either spin or rationalization.

I genuinely appreciate the work that you and others have done on it, but the fact remains; nearly half a decade of development and nothing (playable) to show for it.




hey they promised an devblog about it , again

R.S.I2014
Jim Luc
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#622 - 2012-12-16 03:47:50 UTC
This sucks, I was hoping they'd show us something that has been in development at the 10th anniversary fanfest.

I'm just curious here, why EVE can't afford to have a team of 100 that works on longer 1 - 2 year projects that compliment the game of EVE, while the rest of the teams are on the smaller agile scrum groups. I want to get out of my captains quarters!! I want to at least decorate my quarters. Weren't we going to get new clothing options and sleeve tattoos with Retribution??? I like Retribution, but for some reason I was thinking that WiS development was continuing beneath everything else... Cry
Jim Luc
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#623 - 2012-12-16 03:57:04 UTC
psycho freak wrote:
Tbh id pay £30 for a wis expansion becouse it would add content to my game play but i wouldnt pay for the expansions we been having in eve latly nurffs and balancing wouldnt pay for that type of expansion

i firmly belive wis with content would be major boost to ccp costumer numbers


I'd throw down $100 if it meant actually getting finished. I like the kickstarter idea, or if CCP could release a crowd-funding wing, allowing people to contribute and vote on scoped additions to the EVE universe. This way every 6 months EVE will get its regularly-scheduled iteration "expansions", and extra funding for some of the more advanced things like walking in stations, walking in ships, celestial orbits, etc.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#624 - 2012-12-16 06:00:32 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Just to answer a couple of points:

  • WoD is definitely still in development and development is split off from EVE so that they can concentrate on their game and making it awesome.



I stopped reading at this point. It's all I wanted to hear.

PS - Tell them to include Jack.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Anemonae Ambrosia
Royal Order of Security Specialists
#625 - 2012-12-16 06:22:50 UTC
I wish they'd do something with WiS, either scrap it or finish it their choice
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#626 - 2012-12-16 07:13:46 UTC
Jim Luc wrote:
This sucks, I was hoping they'd show us something that has been in development at the 10th anniversary fanfest.

I'm just curious here, why EVE can't afford to have a team of 100 that works on longer 1 - 2 year projects that compliment the game of EVE, while the rest of the teams are on the smaller agile scrum groups. I want to get out of my captains quarters!! I want to at least decorate my quarters. Weren't we going to get new clothing options and sleeve tattoos with Retribution??? I like Retribution, but for some reason I was thinking that WiS development was continuing beneath everything else... Cry


because when they released WiS it cost them 20% of their company.
NOT THAT HARD to figure out why they dont wanna go try again

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Krimzin Majere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#627 - 2012-12-16 09:27:36 UTC
I have a 7-year old sitting next to me playing the Star Trek Online tutorial.

He's always begging me to play EVE. I set him up a trial account just so he could play a little. He absolutely loved it.

Then I downloaded STO since it was free to play. He can't get enough of it. When I asked him which he liked better his answer was Star Trek. I asked him why and his reply was that he could see his man and run around.

Having the ability to walk around different environments, be it station, ship or ground adds so much to the science fiction simulator experience.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#628 - 2012-12-16 09:38:47 UTC
Jim Luc wrote:
psycho freak wrote:
Tbh id pay £30 for a wis expansion becouse it would add content to my game play but i wouldnt pay for the expansions we been having in eve latly nurffs and balancing wouldnt pay for that type of expansion

i firmly belive wis with content would be major boost to ccp costumer numbers


I'd throw down $100 if it meant actually getting finished. I like the kickstarter idea, or if CCP could release a crowd-funding wing, allowing people to contribute and vote on scoped additions to the EVE universe. This way every 6 months EVE will get its regularly-scheduled iteration "expansions", and extra funding for some of the more advanced things like walking in stations, walking in ships, celestial orbits, etc.



If our subscriptions are enough to build a consolecrap game ,they have enough money to add WIS

R.S.I2014
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#629 - 2012-12-16 10:05:28 UTC
Jim Luc wrote:
This sucks, I was hoping they'd show us something that has been in development at the 10th anniversary fanfest.

I'm just curious here, why EVE can't afford to have a team of 100 that works on longer 1 - 2 year projects that compliment the game of EVE, while the rest of the teams are on the smaller agile scrum groups.

Because the last time CCP diverted everybody to one big project was Incarna, we got the infamous '18 Months' of stagnation to the core game, and at the end of the process all that appeared out of the other end was Captain's Quarters.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#630 - 2012-12-16 10:06:55 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If our subscriptions are enough to build a consolecrap game ,they have enough money to add WIS


But are they enough to work on both at once? And WoD? And continued development on Eve as well?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#631 - 2012-12-16 11:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Scatim Helicon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If our subscriptions are enough to build a consolecrap game ,they have enough money to add WIS


But are they enough to work on both at once? And WoD? And continued development on Eve as well?


I think you missed his point. He meant if they hadn't split their resources to work on Dust and WoD simultaneously, they could have WiS content up and running. Working on two new games was a little ambitious. I am happy for Dust, and I am happy that it's CCP working on a WoD MMO (because I am a fan of the WoD games, and If anyone had to work on it I am glad it's CCP), but even some of the biggest games companies in the world will concentrate their efforts one or two games at a time.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Anne-Louise Chasse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#632 - 2012-12-16 11:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne-Louise Chasse
Krimzin Majere wrote:
I have a 7-year old sitting next to me playing the Star Trek Online tutorial.

He's always begging me to play EVE. I set him up a trial account just so he could play a little. He absolutely loved it.

Then I downloaded STO since it was free to play. He can't get enough of it. When I asked him which he liked better his answer was Star Trek. I asked him why and his reply was that he could see his man and run around.

Having the ability to walk around different environments, be it station, ship or ground adds so much to the science fiction simulator experience.


But EVE is not a science fiction simulator. It's a spaceship game absurdly complex, so complex that it has taken ten years to make the rookies know why they have been destroyed and CONCORD has done nothing, have taken six years to people not pluck their victims stealing bounties, have taken a year to the new UI is functional, and have taken another year to say that, after all, can **** Incarna avatars and what everyone needs in EVE is a FPS without avatars.

We have to wait two years to have a FPS with faceless avatars after six years talking about adding avatars to the game and when they have a fabulous avatars but do nothing. Damn, if not even let you put in your CQ another avatar, nor that it was hardest thing in the world.

It is SLOW and frustrating how LITTLE they do in so LONG time. Sad
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#633 - 2012-12-16 14:22:34 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If our subscriptions are enough to build a consolecrap game ,they have enough money to add WIS


But are they enough to work on both at once? And WoD? And continued development on Eve as well?


I think you missed his point. He meant if they hadn't split their resources to work on Dust and WoD simultaneously, they could have WiS content up and running. Working on two new games was a little ambitious. I am happy for Dust, and I am happy that it's CCP working on a WoD MMO (because I am a fan of the WoD games, and If anyone had to work on it I am glad it's CCP), but even some of the biggest games companies in the world will concentrate their efforts one or two games at a time.



And besides that ,the normal thing to do next was to open that door.
For Ghazu and the other barbie obsessed people ,i want meaningful gameplay within WIS.
but without opening that door ,WIS is useless.
You can cry about gameplay all you want,but the door needs to have a function.
And don,t come up with recourses,Dust has a lot of recourses directed from EvE already.

R.S.I2014
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#634 - 2012-12-16 14:58:26 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Jim Luc wrote:
This sucks, I was hoping they'd show us something that has been in development at the 10th anniversary fanfest.

I'm just curious here, why EVE can't afford to have a team of 100 that works on longer 1 - 2 year projects that compliment the game of EVE, while the rest of the teams are on the smaller agile scrum groups. I want to get out of my captains quarters!! I want to at least decorate my quarters. Weren't we going to get new clothing options and sleeve tattoos with Retribution??? I like Retribution, but for some reason I was thinking that WiS development was continuing beneath everything else... Cry


because when they released WiS it cost them 20% of their company.
NOT THAT HARD to figure out why they dont wanna go try again

That had nothing to do with it.

Or are you telling me that you've somehow figured out how CCP develiponing WiS is the real reason for the worlds financial problems today.

CCP was not immune to the problems pretty much every other company in the world faced.

Nor was attempting to fund the development of two other games during one of the worlds worst finanical crisis the smartest thing CCP has done.



You appear to be very agains the idea of WiS? Why exactly? How is an avatar walking around a station going to effect you flying in space exactly?

Are you afraid it might be so much fun that no one ever undocks?

I just don't understand the mindset that because you don't have interest in something, because you won't use it, and it doesn't matter if an incredibly large number of people actually do want it, that CCP shouldn't do it.


They know what thier mistakes were,
They admitted to them,
They apologized for them.

The solution should have been a group like team avatar building on CQ's since day 2 of Incarna's release, while everyone else continued to bring us all the balance and fixes we got after it's release.

I just don't see what 5 or so guys can be doing that is so vital that CCP couldn't have them working fulltime on expanding on WiS.


CCP should do an in game vote on this;, but I think they already know that their community wants it.
Ghazu
#635 - 2012-12-16 15:08:58 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


And besides that ,the normal thing to do next was to open that door.
For Ghazu and the other barbie obsessed people ,i want meaningful gameplay within WIS.
but without opening that door ,WIS is useless.
You can cry about gameplay all you want,but the door needs to have a function.
And don,t come up with recourses,Dust has a lot of recourses directed from EvE already.


Open the door and do what?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Aditu Riraille
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2012-12-16 15:10:57 UTC
I think it would be amazing to incorporate some first person content when it comes to exploration. What worries me a bit is all the details on how it would work. Glad to see that CCP hasn't shut the door on WiS development though- it has a lot of potential, IF done right.

"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." T. S. Eliot   
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#637 - 2012-12-16 15:19:54 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


And besides that ,the normal thing to do next was to open that door.
For Ghazu and the other barbie obsessed people ,i want meaningful gameplay within WIS.
but without opening that door ,WIS is useless.
You can cry about gameplay all you want,but the door needs to have a function.
And don,t come up with recourses,Dust has a lot of recourses directed from EvE already.


Open the door and do what?

Wouldn't mind if I could shoot somene.

If they had continued iterating on WiS since incarna we could have possibly been doing that today.
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#638 - 2012-12-16 15:46:26 UTC
In regards to clothing, I personally think they should cost the same amount of aurum. If players cannot construct them, it makes no sense to have differing prices [aka monocle].
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#639 - 2012-12-16 16:08:18 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


because when they released WiS it cost them 20% of their company.
NOT THAT HARD to figure out why they dont wanna go try again

No, it wasn't WiS that cost them 20% of their company.

The problem was the noble exchange. WiS just got blamed for it by some people.

If you go back to the threadnaughts and the protests you will see that they were over the "macro-transactions" of the noble exchange and NOT because of WiS.

CCP miscalculated on bringing in macro-transactions into a paid subscription game. That was a bad idea. A really bad idea. While most people were, more or less, okay with micro-transactions the initial pricing of stuff in the noble exchange was ridiculous and screamed of a money grab. That was the cause of mass desertions from the game NOT WiS.

WiS is something, in my view, would improve EVE and grow its user base so long as it remains the domain of Walking in Stations and enables player interaction. Put it into the game and allow players to figure out what to do with it. Provide the framework for diplomacy, corp activities, trading, and the rest - that's all.

I want to sit in Jita and gaze out a window and watch the spaceships getting blown up while drinking some weird looking drink (made by players) and playing cards (run by players.) I want to be able to buy things for my quarters (made by players, sold by players, and traded by players) and I want to equip my character with 'cool stuff' (also made by players and not from the noble exchange.)

WiS is still something that EVE is lacking and would benefit from.

If you don't want to participate in it then don't. You can have a ship hangar and spin your ship - that's cool with me. I think it'd be awesome to be able to see someone else's ship while walking around a station (think of the spy possibility here - have someone on the station report out what ship someone was seen leaving in.)

WiS should encourage player interactions.

But, again, it wasn't WiS that caused a mass exodus of players - it was the way the noble exchange was implemented. I still don't have my alt account active since unsubscribing him due to that whole debacle.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#640 - 2012-12-16 16:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Jim Luc wrote:
This sucks, I was hoping they'd show us something that has been in development at the 10th anniversary fanfest.

I'm just curious here, why EVE can't afford to have a team of 100 that works on longer 1 - 2 year projects that compliment the game of EVE, while the rest of the teams are on the smaller agile scrum groups.

Because the last time CCP diverted everybody to one big project was Incarna, we got the infamous '18 Months' of stagnation to the core game, and at the end of the process all that appeared out of the other end was Captain's Quarters.


like I said:

Quote:
because when they released WiS it cost them 20% of their company.
NOT THAT HARD to figure out why they dont wanna go try again


Scatim Helicon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
If our subscriptions are enough to build a consolecrap game ,they have enough money to add WIS


But are they enough to work on both at once? And WoD? And continued development on Eve as well?


They werent in the past, when they had 20% more people on staff.
And most of those cuts as I remember came from White Wolf Atlanta and WoD.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.