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Pulling the Plug on WiS

First post First post First post
Author
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#401 - 2012-11-29 18:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Nick Bete wrote:
So have any of you business geniuses who keep telling CCP to forget WiS, Dust and WOD ever heard of the word "diversification"? You really expect CCP to continue to grow and make profits based on a single, 10 year old product that's stagnant in terms of subscribers? You expect CCP to ignore the current trends in gaming?

Avatar gameplay could have breathed some much-needed life into this game, despite what you haters opine. There's absolutely no reason that avatars and spaceship models can't co-exist in Eve.

You haters hold onto your narrow views and watch as this game continues its slow decline to irrelevance. You can only have so many new ships and fixing bugs doesn't bring in new subscribers.

Obviously not.

They seem to think that EVE will continue on indefinately without ever introducing anything truelly new to the game.

I mean, it's working great for Blizzard. They can keep releasing the exact same content with a new skin for years and never lose a player. Except for all the people that keep leaving and the critisism that Blizzard gets because they just release the same thing over and over with a new skin.


What EVE needs is for everything to be V4'd. As soon as they finish all the V3ing they can start work on it. Nothing keeps a 10 year old game feeling fresh like a new texture, or having old mechanics altered and rereleased; never seen an MMO do this indefinately before.

I too look forward to more Xpacs that follow the Blizzard development model.

Good thing they have Dust, because all those people I talk to while playing it; that have zero intent on ever playing EVE are going to be a huge benefit to EVE's population.



You're as dense as lead ingot if I have to explain the sarcasm.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#402 - 2012-11-29 18:39:48 UTC
I would say I know about 10 or so individuals that are currently interested in DUST that have never or simply don't play EVE. Out of those 10 or so only 2 of them have no interest in EVE at all. The others either are interested and have no time for EVE or intend to give EVE a try when they start playing DUST. I am certain that my small sample of friends means jack squat but I seriously doubt that DUST will have no beneficial impact on EVE's population. The more diversity EVE has, the better chance it has of growing in popularity.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#403 - 2012-11-29 18:59:02 UTC
Tinfoil hattery, engage!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#404 - 2012-11-29 19:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I would say I know about 10 or so individuals that are currently interested in DUST that have never or simply don't play EVE. Out of those 10 or so only 2 of them have no interest in EVE at all. The others either are interested and have no time for EVE or intend to give EVE a try when they start playing DUST. I am certain that my small sample of friends means jack squat but I seriously doubt that DUST will have no beneficial impact on EVE's population. The more diversity EVE has, the better chance it has of growing in popularity.

It's obviously not going to be zero.

However, it's naive to think that EVE will "benefit" from Dust, by way of pulling in anything that would consititute a worthwhile number of subscribers.

I'm pretty sure that CCP isn't counting on bringing more people into EVE itself, but on selling as much crap as they can on the MT shop.

Dust isn't about CCP benefiting through increased EVE subs, but capitalizing on the PLEX and AUR sales. EVE doesn't even need to exist for Dust to survive or not.

As a F2P shooter Dust can stand on it's own. The Dust EVE connection is a little overplayed. Anyone playing Dust right now knows that. Most of the people I talk to don't even realize what the connection really is, or what kind of impact it could end up having.

These aren't friends, people who already know me and my EVE hobby. They're random people I meet in random matches and get to talking to. Hundreds of random people, the only thing in common is the game we were playing and a head set; I can count the number of people who new what EVE was or even gave a **** on both hands.

There're reason why they went with a console, and one of them being millions of people who never heard of or could care less about a MMO that a few hundred thousand people are playing.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#405 - 2012-11-29 19:13:22 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
WiS is dead, gone, and good riddance. The same people that would enjoy WiS are the annoying types that turned "Likes and get Likes" and all the Avatar threads into a GD eyesore for over a year. Screw wasting resources on that lot.

Of course, I'd be happier about it, but the CCP Devs who thought Space Barbies was a "brilliant" idea are the same ones who are currently pushing their highsec carebear wet dream version of EVE on the rest of us.

If I had to choose between Crimewatch 2.0 and idiotic barge buffs or space barbies and NEX, I'd say let the girls have their dolls.

Also, is it just me or do Brits WAY overuse the term 'brilliant'?


It sounds like you need a hug and some therapy.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#406 - 2012-11-29 19:13:27 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I would say I know about 10 or so individuals that are currently interested in DUST that have never or simply don't play EVE. Out of those 10 or so only 2 of them have no interest in EVE at all. The others either are interested and have no time for EVE or intend to give EVE a try when they start playing DUST. I am certain that my small sample of friends means jack squat but I seriously doubt that DUST will have no beneficial impact on EVE's population. The more diversity EVE has, the better chance it has of growing in popularity.


See, out of all those people, what stopped 8 of them from playing EVE before? Those who had no time for EVE, likely still won't have time after Dust. And those intending to give EVE a try after they start playing Dust? Why wait? Dust is months and months away yet, EVE has been out for well over 9 years.

The way I see it, people who were interested in EVE, already tried it and either are still around or quit. And Dust won't bring them suddenly back, if they wrote off EVE already. And the gamers today had 9 years of EVE to do it in. Dust isn't going to suddenly make someone who had zero interest in EVE or spaceships jump out and yell "Man, I gotta get me some of that!" Just like playing Battlefield 3 doesn't make most people suddenly drop everything and go play a nice game of chess.

Despite what CCP says, they haven't really explained how the games would be linked at all. How will I, as EVE player, interact with a Dust bunny? Via chat window? That's not particularly fun. Have you ever chatter with someone online while you're playing one game and your friend is playing something entirely different? It's not as awesome as it sounds. You tell him "OMG, I just killed a Drake!" and he'll go "There's dragons in EVE?!" See what I mean?

But maybe it's just me. On one hand I'm happy they're diversifying and all that. But doing on PS3? When PS4 will be coming out in 2013-2014 at the latest? Huge mistake. Not to mention PS3 has been an absolute nightmare in recent years, I know hardcore PS3 fans that sold their consoles and are not going back. The whole security breach thing a few years back? The new EULA that basically says "no matter what we do to you, you can't sue us in class action". And even now, all other platforms have Skyrim DLC available...except PS3...which still has none. And that's just a few examples. And this is the basket CCP is putting its Dust egg into? Classy.

And WOD? I'm sorry, but how long since it was announced? And have we seen any gameplay footage, at all? Nope. Unless you count camera flying around an empty map without any NPCs or, god forbid, actual players? And the map is about 10% size of an average FPS game map. Woo, totally worth it? Now, compare that to Star Citizen that was announced a few months ago, and we've already seen pre-alpha footage of dogfighting, cockpit view, avatar movement, etc., etc. Though, fingers crossed, we might see something WOD-related at FanFest...5 months from now!

Maybe I'm beginning to suffer from a bitter vet syndrome, but I really think WiS was EVE's best hope to remain viable. Rebalancing old spaceships and changing how flagging works, while very much needed, isn't going to bring old players back, or new players in.
Not Amused Responsible
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#407 - 2012-11-29 19:45:16 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Not Amused Responsible wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
So have any of you business geniuses who keep telling CCP to forget WiS, Dust and WOD ever heard of the word "diversification"? You really expect CCP to continue to grow and make profits based on a single, 10 year old product that's stagnant in terms of subscribers? You expect CCP to ignore the current trends in gaming?

Avatar gameplay could have breathed some much-needed life into this game, despite what you haters opine. There's absolutely no reason that avatars and spaceship models can't co-exist in Eve.

You haters hold onto your narrow views and watch as this game continues its slow decline to irrelevance. You can only have so many new ships and fixing bugs doesn't bring in new subscribers.



I have to agree with you and Wis would be a great addition to Eve, after finding this link for the pve side of Eve, CCP needs help and Wis could bring a great deal of content.

Eve High sec

Did you make that video? You should feel bad.


Lol, interesting comparison right?
Seriously CCP needs a shake up and get rid of their attitude, capitalizing on Plex sales is all their interested in, have you guys worked out the cost of a Plex compared to real money, or the cost of monthly subs in relation to Plex prices.
I agree with Natsett Amuinn and Plex is the currency in Eve and Dust, if you then add Wis the creditors are seeing money in the bank with the Nex store, Wis is inevitable.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2012-11-29 20:51:46 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I would say I know about 10 or so individuals that are currently interested in DUST that have never or simply don't play EVE. Out of those 10 or so only 2 of them have no interest in EVE at all. The others either are interested and have no time for EVE or intend to give EVE a try when they start playing DUST. I am certain that my small sample of friends means jack squat but I seriously doubt that DUST will have no beneficial impact on EVE's population. The more diversity EVE has, the better chance it has of growing in popularity.


See, out of all those people, what stopped 8 of them from playing EVE before? Those who had no time for EVE, likely still won't have time after Dust. And those intending to give EVE a try after they start playing Dust? Why wait? Dust is months and months away yet, EVE has been out for well over 9 years.

The way I see it, people who were interested in EVE, already tried it and either are still around or quit. And Dust won't bring them suddenly back, if they wrote off EVE already. And the gamers today had 9 years of EVE to do it in. Dust isn't going to suddenly make someone who had zero interest in EVE or spaceships jump out and yell "Man, I gotta get me some of that!" Just like playing Battlefield 3 doesn't make most people suddenly drop everything and go play a nice game of chess.

Despite what CCP says, they haven't really explained how the games would be linked at all. How will I, as EVE player, interact with a Dust bunny? Via chat window? That's not particularly fun. Have you ever chatter with someone online while you're playing one game and your friend is playing something entirely different? It's not as awesome as it sounds. You tell him "OMG, I just killed a Drake!" and he'll go "There's dragons in EVE?!" See what I mean?

But maybe it's just me. On one hand I'm happy they're diversifying and all that. But doing on PS3? When PS4 will be coming out in 2013-2014 at the latest? Huge mistake. Not to mention PS3 has been an absolute nightmare in recent years, I know hardcore PS3 fans that sold their consoles and are not going back. The whole security breach thing a few years back? The new EULA that basically says "no matter what we do to you, you can't sue us in class action". And even now, all other platforms have Skyrim DLC available...except PS3...which still has none. And that's just a few examples. And this is the basket CCP is putting its Dust egg into? Classy.

And WOD? I'm sorry, but how long since it was announced? And have we seen any gameplay footage, at all? Nope. Unless you count camera flying around an empty map without any NPCs or, god forbid, actual players? And the map is about 10% size of an average FPS game map. Woo, totally worth it? Now, compare that to Star Citizen that was announced a few months ago, and we've already seen pre-alpha footage of dogfighting, cockpit view, avatar movement, etc., etc. Though, fingers crossed, we might see something WOD-related at FanFest...5 months from now!

Maybe I'm beginning to suffer from a bitter vet syndrome, but I really think WiS was EVE's best hope to remain viable. Rebalancing old spaceships and changing how flagging works, while very much needed, isn't going to bring old players back, or new players in.

A lot of people don't like the simple interaction of ship vs ship without ever seeing or using your character. My wife is the same way...wants to see her character and not a ship all the time. Captains Quarters was a step in the right direction for her but not quite enough. DUST for her is more along her lines of what she wants to do and in turn wants to take a look at getting involved with EVE but not until she is playing DUST. She has a beta account but wants to wait until she is sure her character isn't going to be wiped again after release.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Gutuie
#409 - 2012-11-29 21:01:38 UTC
for those who forgot incarna launch>
to be in that room and look to the closed door ended very bad when computers started to eat loads of resources and temperatures getting higher. I am afraid what will mean in game performance when the door open.

Lets say door is open:
-jita people> wow is to crowded this place who was the one who farted i cant see the bubble chat Oops
-for a player alone in station (forgoten corner in sandbox)> why but why (emote /river of tears) who will see my clothes here
-i wanna touch other players plzz ccp let me do it or i rage quit
- next step WiS forum warriors will start fighting with ccp for adding vanity pets, emotes and hey gief a panda dance. At this point we are doomed
- add what u want poker games, slap demsell for too much distress, etc
-and i can imagine even forum threads with "nerf WiS we need targets in low and null" or "what keeps u in stations"

I stop here with question how WiS help eve evolving?

People need to understand ccp in not a huge company to invest money/time in game modules that are not related to spaceship game. Let them finish dust, ship rebalancing and what ever they want to make this sandbox more interesting
Maybe in time they do it i got no problem with that but let them keep focus in spaceships not in the interiors textures and cloathing design

fly more dress up lessBlink


Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#410 - 2012-11-29 21:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Gutuie}

People need to understand ccp in not a huge company to invest money/time in game modules that are not related to spaceship game. Let them finish dust, ship rebalancing and what ever they want to make this sandbox more interesting
Maybe in time they do it i got no problem with that but let them keep focus in spaceships not in the interiors textures and cloathing design

fly more dress up less[;) wrote:




What do you call investing time and money into the development of two other games? What do you think they would be doing if that time and money had been investested into EVE?

I know what you'd be doing.
Walking around an optimized space station that didn't require your computer to be sitting in a pool of water to run. And if it didn't float your boat you'd be flying around space.

Performance has nothing to do with anything other then CCP releasing something that wasn't ready to be released because they were spread to thin. I wonder why they were sprad to thin?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2012-11-29 22:25:02 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
due to the vocal minority

Actually a very scary amount of unsubs.

DMC
Issler


I see we're back to this again, there was a lot of other reasons for the amount of un-subs during the Summer of Rage. It wasn't about incorporating Avatar's into the game.

Anyway, seems you're confused. My character is not connected to Issler.

DMC
Stegas Tyrano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#412 - 2012-11-29 23:57:51 UTC
CCP should start a Kickstarter for WiS. If enough people donate then it will get the go ahead and will be worked on, if it's way off the money can go towards FiS.

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]

KrakizBad
Section 8.
#413 - 2012-11-30 00:00:30 UTC
Stegas Tyrano wrote:
CCP should start a Kickstarter for WiS. If enough people donate then it will get the go ahead and will be worked on, if it's way off the money can go towards FiS.

Seems reasonable. Let the space barbie lovers pay for their own worthless feature bloat.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#414 - 2012-11-30 06:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Gutuie wrote:
for those who forgot incarna launch>
to be in that room and look to the closed door ended very bad when computers started to eat loads of resources and temperatures getting higher. I am afraid what will mean in game performance when the door open.

Lets say door is open:
-jita people> wow is to crowded this place who was the one who farted i cant see the bubble chat Oops
-for a player alone in station (forgoten corner in sandbox)> why but why (emote /river of tears) who will see my clothes here
-i wanna touch other players plzz ccp let me do it or i rage quit
- next step WiS forum warriors will start fighting with ccp for adding vanity pets, emotes and hey gief a panda dance. At this point we are doomed
- add what u want poker games, slap demsell for too much distress, etc
-and i can imagine even forum threads with "nerf WiS we need targets in low and null" or "what keeps u in stations"

I stop here with question how WiS help eve evolving?

People need to understand ccp in not a huge company to invest money/time in game modules that are not related to spaceship game. Let them finish dust, ship rebalancing and what ever they want to make this sandbox more interesting
Maybe in time they do it i got no problem with that but let them keep focus in spaceships not in the interiors textures and cloathing design

fly more dress up lessBlink




Quoting someone who knows little to nothing about CCP's ideas surrounding WiS.

Firstly, there hasn't been any intention to open WiS into one massive station with with everyone docked up there walking around in the same place, for a long time. Before the exploration stuff (which you seem to be ignoring completely, because otherwise you'd have to admit it was a good idea, and that all the arguments above do not apply) they were talking about Corporate Quarters. Enough space for limited numbers in a corp to hang out, and invite people from outside the corp in. Limited numbers. Corps would be able to tax gambling wins etc. Like running a club.

No one has ever said there are likely to be loads of emotes. CCP have always said they want Eve to stay atmospheric, which means no running, no jumping, and no **** emotes.

As for "nerf WiS we need targets in low and null" or "what keeps u in stations"; WiS would bring in a lot of players. Which means more people in low and null and more people in space. The people who hang about in stations will stay there, they will just have something to do. And if you add the exploration WiS stuff, they may even leave their stations and travel to dangerous space to try it out.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Ghazu
#415 - 2012-11-30 06:34:23 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Gutuie wrote:
for those who forgot incarna launch>
to be in that room and look to the closed door ended very bad when computers started to eat loads of resources and temperatures getting higher. I am afraid what will mean in game performance when the door open.

Lets say door is open:
-jita people> wow is to crowded this place who was the one who farted i cant see the bubble chat Oops
-for a player alone in station (forgoten corner in sandbox)> why but why (emote /river of tears) who will see my clothes here
-i wanna touch other players plzz ccp let me do it or i rage quit
- next step WiS forum warriors will start fighting with ccp for adding vanity pets, emotes and hey gief a panda dance. At this point we are doomed
- add what u want poker games, slap demsell for too much distress, etc
-and i can imagine even forum threads with "nerf WiS we need targets in low and null" or "what keeps u in stations"

I stop here with question how WiS help eve evolving?

People need to understand ccp in not a huge company to invest money/time in game modules that are not related to spaceship game. Let them finish dust, ship rebalancing and what ever they want to make this sandbox more interesting
Maybe in time they do it i got no problem with that but let them keep focus in spaceships not in the interiors textures and cloathing design

fly more dress up lessBlink




Quoting someone who knows little to nothing about CCP's ideas surrounding WiS.

Firstly, there hasn't been any intention to open WiS into one massive station with with everyone docked up there walking around in the same place, for a long time. Before the exploration stuff (which you seem to be ignoring completely, because otherwise you'd have to admit it was a good idea, and that all the arguments above do not apply) they were talking about Corporate Quarters. Enough space for limited numbers in a corp to hang out, and invite people from outside the corp in. Limited numbers. Corps would be able to tax gambling wins etc. Like running a club.

No one has ever said there are likely to be loads of emotes. CCP have always said they want Eve to stay atmospheric, which means no running, no jumping, and no **** emotes.

As for "nerf WiS we need targets in low and null" or "what keeps u in stations"; WiS would bring in a lot of players. Which means more people in low and null and more people in space. The people who hang about in stations will stay there, they will just have something to do. And if you add the exploration WiS stuff, they may even leave their stations and travel to dangerous space to try it out.


What makes you think he was talking about CCP's ideas, he was inferring to certain players' who want nothing more than to barbie dressup and emote each other, who shudders at the thought of combat and consequences, and as hard as I try I can't silence them. They've even come up with some bullshite drone clone or whatever thing so they can pretend "pvp". We need to be able to gank pods worth hundreds of millions. You want to protect your pod don't undock (exit the CQ) or jump clone to a cheap clone.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#416 - 2012-11-30 10:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP RedDawn
Hi all and thanks for this thread.

I was part of Team Avatar (or Team Absent as we seem to be now known as) and personally, reading through every page has been a bit of a rollercoaster to be honest. From the highs of the continued demand for WiS and it's lack of presence, to the lows of people still tagging it with 'barbie' and not seeing the overall potential of WiS.

Please don't think that all the positive feedback for WiS in this thread is going un-noticed. The sheer length of it is obvious enough to show people's continued interest.

Firstly, let me sum up a few things,

1. Team Avatar were formed to prototype 'meaningful' WiS gameplay.
That did not mean a /dance emote.
Our prototype focused around pve and pvp combat and exploration within 'Sites'.
The feedback from internal playtesting was immensely positive and we could all see it tying in supremely well with the current EvE ecology. Meaning that our WiS gameplay benefited the in-flight game and vice-versa. They should not be separate.
We showed the prototype at the last fanfest and to the CSM and got positive reactions from both groups of observers.
So the general direction we were going in was sound. We had faith in it but most importantly, it appeared that you did as well.

2. Team Avatar were disbanded.
The prototyping was finished, revealed company wide and received much praise.
A decision was made to 'shelve' WiS related gameplay for the foreseeable future due to technology requirements and a change in development focus.

3. The members of Team Avatar were moved onto other teams/projects.
All members of Team Avatar are currently on other teams working away on various things, either Retribution based and not.


Where we stand right now is that we have a successful idea for WiS, a detailed pre-production plan and the right people to implement it properly into EvE.
As I mentioned earlier, WiS is "shelved", not, and I re-iterate, not, completely and utterly abandoned to a dark depth that only Cthulhu could descend to.
I can't obviously speak for the entirety of the company, but I believe the overall consensus is that we, as devs want WiS to be out there and blowing all your minds right now.
Some things take priority though, and some things take time.. and yes I know it's frustrating to continue waiting, but believe me when I say it, but it's also frustrating to work on something so obviously awesome to not see it come out as a fully fledged feature at the end of it.

Anyway, I hope that clears some things up for you and apologies for the length.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that you get a +1 from me for the kickstarter idea, Big smile

Team Genesis

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#417 - 2012-11-30 10:58:53 UTC
Thanks for that ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#418 - 2012-11-30 11:05:07 UTC
A heartfelt response from CCP RedDawn.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Irya Boone
The Scope
#419 - 2012-11-30 11:05:58 UTC
The feedback from internal playtesting was immensely positive

We showed the prototype at the last fanfest and to the CSM and got positive reactions from both groups of observers.

And you stoped it ... sometimes I wonder Why evolution ( sorry for the mormons) Gave us a Brain , really !!

I think when a movie tops the Box office in one night They must Remove the movie from ALL theater , cinema rooms right away , because when people love something you have to stop it right away ( CCP phylo)

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#420 - 2012-11-30 11:24:57 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
The feedback from internal playtesting was immensely positive

We showed the prototype at the last fanfest and to the CSM and got positive reactions from both groups of observers.

And you stoped it ... sometimes I wonder Why evolution ( sorry for the mormons) Gave us a Brain , really !!

I think when a movie tops the Box office in one night They must Remove the movie from ALL theater , cinema rooms right away , because when people love something you have to stop it right away ( CCP phylo)


They don't have unlimited resources. No matter how well Team Avatar did (and it sounds like they did quite well), they still have to weigh how long it'll take and how much manpower it'd take against other areas of the game (like continuing to fix Flying in Space, aka "the actual game"). They did this, and decided it can't be done now, so their work gets shelved. They can still pick it up later, they just can't do it right now.

This isn't difficult to understand.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["