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Dev Blog: Bounties, Kill Rights, New Modules and War in Retribution

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Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#141 - 2012-11-22 05:19:31 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Most interested in the Battle Noctis Twisted


Battle Noctis was the first thing I was thinking about after reading the drone bay adjustment Twisted
None ofthe Above
#142 - 2012-11-22 05:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Off the top of my head I can think of a few issues that still have not been addressed.

- Bounty contracts need to expire, just like normal contracts. This also solves the issue of "person quits playing for 5 months, what happens to my money?". If the bounty expires under that case, there's not much reason why it couldn't be limited to 30/60/90 days in the normal case. Personally, I think a 30-day limit would strike a nice balance between longevity and being able to grief someone out of the game for 5 months.

- The overview / local indicator for who has a bounty will be mostly useless in places like Jita where bored pilots will just place 100k bounties on anyone in local. There needs to be an overview setting where you can set limits on the minimum bounty amount.

- There needs to be a limit on how many bounties you can place at once, just like public contracts. Maybe it initially uses up the contract slots until a specific skill could be added later. This would also help fight the "bored pilots placing bounties on everyone" issue.

- As much as CCP cries about inflation, you're still passing up the opportunity to add at least some sort of ISK sink into the public bounties. Such as setup fees, taxes on the total amount (1-5%) and only returning some (80-90%) of the remaining bounty if it expires.


+1; None likes.

But would l like to add... a great deal of like for Team Superfriends for adding the killright limitations, I think that goes a long way to mitigating the serious flaw in an interesting system. Very much appreciated that you listened to our feedback and made that change.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
#143 - 2012-11-22 06:27:50 UTC
The changes/improvements look good apart from the badly handled ASB nerf. Try flying a frig/cruiser with the new not XL ASBs and notice how nerfing all ASB to bring the XL-sized version in line made the rest useless. Keep in mind that there are no navy cap boosters for the smaller variants.

While overall the balancing path seems decent and I am extremely happy with the new CCP, try iterating over ships/modules by introducing small gentle tweaks over time instead of the "nerf" -- "unnerf" cycles with high powercreep. While I understand that it takes some time to see the full result of a balancing change, if you're going to wait every time for a whole new expansion to rebalance mods/ships, you're doing it wrong.



Minmatar Balancing, 3 suggestions.
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2012-11-22 06:47:49 UTC
Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?

So in addition to the current changes:
A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.

This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again.
Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#145 - 2012-11-22 07:19:25 UTC
The cycle time, cap booster capacity and cap usage were not really any kind of issues with ASBs- their problem is ridiculously easy fitting, that results in every ASB ship opting for dual oversized ASBs.

If their fitting was realistic and in line with other modules in game, ASBs would be balanced and fun.

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#146 - 2012-11-22 07:34:53 UTC
Ok, I was just reminded and yet didn't see any further iteration on the topic of NOT being able to Eject with a Weapons flag? Is that staying as is? All because of the T3s? So someone going down in flames can't pre-explosion-eject to save their pod, or try to remember to stop firing 60 seconds before they pop (as if we really want to stop fighting). The option to eject should always be up to the pilot. With the concern to T3's just write it so if their T3 ship (that still has them with Ownership) pops after they eject, they still get the skill loss hit. Is this too difficult to do?

And... Wormholes... Why the hell does a Wormhole care what flag you have to deny you access if you are Criminally flag? I didn't realize that wormholes had intelligence.

Anything on this kind of stuff for the new Aggro mechanics?

A lot of it is good, but some stuff just doesn't make any logical sense.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#147 - 2012-11-22 08:18:48 UTC
i heard rumors that the logi change has been reverted. was hoping tor ead about it here.
Logis still get full aggro right when repping in empire?
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#148 - 2012-11-22 08:58:57 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Chribba wrote:


Also @ the activation of a kill right, if I activate it for everyone, will this mean I will get a "kill report" in my list if someone else kills him on my behalf?

/c


you won't get a kill report in your list, but you get a notification telling you that your kill right was used up by someone. and the kill report will say that the pilot was killed on your behalf.

it could have been kewl to see the kill, and especially what the target lost
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#149 - 2012-11-22 09:38:49 UTC
Imawuss wrote:
Why not tie the bounty system and the kill right system?

So in addition to the current changes:
A person could sell a kill right to an actually bounty hunter who then can hunt the target. Upon kill the bounty hunter would then get 100% of only the bounty that the player who sold the kill right put on him. plus he then would get all the rest of the normal bounty payout if more people had bounties on the target.

This basically acts as a contract, sell kill right for 25m but put a 50 mil bounty on target. When target is killed you also receive a killmail so you know the details of the kill and if you want to use that bounty hunter again.
Seems fair and easy, It would not detract from the current system and just adds a little more flavor.


When someone is killed using your kill right, the kill report says "Killed on behalf of Imawuss" and you also get a notification saying that someone used up your kill right

We wanted to add a link to the kill report in the notification but couldn't get to that for Retribution.. maybe later!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#150 - 2012-11-22 09:43:20 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.


If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.


As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement?


As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right.

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-11-22 09:53:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.


If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.


As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement?


As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right.

My question finally answered. Thank you!

#thatwasnotsohardwasitalek?
Pat0chan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2012-11-22 09:56:19 UTC
What I understand for this new kill right stuff, is that now High sec is even more dangerous to fly in than before!
Eg:
I fly a freighter (wich cant defend, cant cloack, cant do ****) from gate to gate... A chap scan me down, see i carry goods, place a kill right on me... Next gate I have a whole system waiting for me to be poped and of course Concord will not move anymore.
Or
I'm mining in a belt didnt ask anything to anybody, a space fellas jump in belt, place a kill right and booom dead again.

Did I understood the new kill right system correctly?
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#153 - 2012-11-22 09:58:11 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Oh my god you can activate MJD and cloak instantly then you will remain cloak for the spool up time AND be cloaked when landing, just tried on bucky.


This is a defect that will be fixed before Retribution. Sorry Big smile
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#154 - 2012-11-22 09:59:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Bloodpetal wrote:
CCP Punkturis, an important question was raised above.


If they shoot back in self-defense, currently you don't get a killright for opting to defend yourself, regardless of death or not.


As of this change, will defending yourself forfeit your kill right on initial engagement?


As soon as someone shoots at you where he's not allowed to the kill right is created and he's flagged a s a criminal. That means you can shoot back at him (and everybody else on grid) and still get to keep your kill right.

My question finally answered. Thank you!

#thatwasnotsohardwasitalek?


I just wanted you to wait a bit for the answer so you would appreciate it more Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#155 - 2012-11-22 10:01:19 UTC
Pat0chan wrote:
What I understand for this new kill right stuff, is that now High sec is even more dangerous to fly in than before!
Eg:
I fly a freighter (wich cant defend, cant cloack, cant do ****) from gate to gate... A chap scan me down, see i carry goods, place a kill right on me... Next gate I have a whole system waiting for me to be poped and of course Concord will not move anymore.
Or
I'm mining in a belt didnt ask anything to anybody, a space fellas jump in belt, place a kill right and booom dead again.

Did I understood the new kill right system correctly?


There is an important difference between bounties and kill rights. Bounties can be placed on anyone, but this never leads to you becoming a legal target. A kill right is only created if you do something that flags you as a criminal.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#156 - 2012-11-22 10:07:48 UTC
Marsan wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
hisec warfare is such an excellent introductory arena for aspiring PVPers, \


What are you smoking? Hisec wars are the worse intro to pvp you can get unless you include red vs blue and other groups that use it for consensual pvp that prevents outside interference. Wars in Eve are annoying affairs of station games, gate camping, and hiding. The wars I've been in were boring as the other side rarely fought unless they had a 3 to 1 advantage or massive numbers of neutral repers. The problem with high sec wars is that there is no way for a defender to force an aggressor into battle. Nor is there a reason to do so. Until there is a means to do so most defenders are simply going to station up, drop corp, hang out in LS/NS/WH or the like. The last war I was in our alliance was in the aggressor never left the trade hubs, and stationed up when more than one of us was in system.

If you want a good intro to pvp join one of the newbie training corps, join faction warfare, join a LS corp, join a NS corp.... Heck even joining the Goons will teach you a valuable lesson about eve pvp;-)

PS- I don't disagree that aggressor being able to leave mutual wars is a good idea.

Sounds like you've only ever fought worthless scrubs. Just sayin'. Anyone who did any of the things you described wouldn't even earn standing room with me, and hardly even counts as a PVPer.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#157 - 2012-11-22 10:11:25 UTC
Having to ACTIVATE killrights just doesn't go hand in hand with the fast reactions a player has to achieve in order to tackle an enemy at the right time...

I am truly puzzled and hope the feedback will be followed intensely to see if I'm right or wrong (and not like it was promised to follow up on hybrid rebalance yet it was left in silence)

Good luck with the many other cool things you're introducing to Eve.
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#158 - 2012-11-22 10:25:15 UTC
Sorry I'm late to the party here. A few questions:

1.) Will the wardec retraction feature be part of the game at launch of the expansion? Or released sometime in the weeks that follow? The wording can be interpreted both ways and I want to be able to tell people when they should expect to be free.

2.) The intention here seems to be to shift wardec favor back towards the aggressors because there are no longer consequences for biting off more than they can chew. Is the 24hr retraction timer a final solution or a stopgap measure for something else?

3.) Have you considered letting corps with outgoing wars join alliances? (Just forbid them from declaring outgoing wars after their app has been accepted)

Burn Highsec Griefers
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#159 - 2012-11-22 10:36:46 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Sorry I'm late to the party here. A few questions:

1.) Will the wardec retraction feature be part of the game at launch of the expansion? Or released sometime in the weeks that follow? The wording can be interpreted both ways and I want to be able to tell people when they should expect to be free.


This change will be in Retribution.

The Zerg Overmind wrote:

2.) The intention here seems to be to shift wardec favor back towards the aggressors because there are no longer consequences for biting off more than they can chew. Is the 24hr retraction timer a final solution or a stopgap measure for something else?


The retract war option is only available if the war is made mutual by the defender. So declaring a war is always going to lock you in that war for 7 days, unless a surrender (or this new mutual/retract) option is used, but that is not a one-sided decision by the aggressor.

The Zerg Overmind wrote:

3.) Have you considered letting corps with outgoing wars join alliances? (Just forbid them from declaring outgoing wars after their app has been accepted)


At the moment there is no plan to allow this.
yucci
Cosmic Construct
#160 - 2012-11-22 10:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: yucci
Mostly this update looks awesome.. Except the poor ASB.

As most people have already commented on the nerf bat delivering a whopping blow to this module, no one has touched on its existing penalty - Fitting.
Its already a major cow to fit, usually needing a cpu enhancer, or 2 for a dual ASB fit. This obviously limits dps modules.
A dual asb fit ship on most set-ups do a lot less dps than a buffer fit - this is already a big enough penalty to use this module.
With the capacity reduction of 30%, even a dual-ASB has a huge gap between reload & boost.

I really cant see this module getting much use with the proposed nerf, especially as a secondary module with its fitting requirements.
What was the idea behind introducing this mod ?? whatever it was its pointless now.