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Blobs, A idea to help fix them.

Author
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-11-22 21:34:14 UTC
Ritsum wrote:
Yes, Diminishing returns or even a cap on the dps would not be very wise, but a penalty [based on how many turret's/launchers are active on said target] to accuracy may help. While your tacking and optimal/fall off may be good, the more people firing on a single ship would make it harder for the shots to land.

eg: Having 200+ people who have great accuracy throw tennis balls at a single target would make most of the balls hit each other mid flight and miss the target.



But, what if you have those 200 people firing rifles at a car? Wouldn't that be a fairer example? Our ships are not small. Sure, we might be firing car sized rounds, but when we're shooting something over a kilometre in length?
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-11-22 21:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ritsum
Danika Princip wrote:
Ritsum wrote:
Yes, Diminishing returns or even a cap on the dps would not be very wise, but a penalty [based on how many turret's/launchers are active on said target] to accuracy may help. While your tacking and optimal/fall off may be good, the more people firing on a single ship would make it harder for the shots to land.

eg: Having 200+ people who have great accuracy throw tennis balls at a single target would make most of the balls hit each other mid flight and miss the target.



But, what if you have those 200 people firing rifles at a car? Wouldn't that be a fairer example? Our ships are not small. Sure, we might be firing car sized rounds, but when we're shooting something over a kilometre in length?



True but if you look at the larger ships you can easily see that the turret's / launchers are the size of frigates pretty much meaning the rounds will be quite large, still those 200 people firing rounds at a car would still have a high chance of hitting each other if the shots are taken at quite a distance. Though by now the answers of everyone shows that the idea kinda sucks so meh.

At longer distances aiming is less a "pick your spot and shoot" thing, it is more "okay it is in my sights I will shoot" thing meaning the paths of the shots will be more likely to cross because instead of aiming at parts they are just trying to aim at the car in general.

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2012-11-23 01:17:33 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Ritsum wrote:
Yes, Diminishing returns or even a cap on the dps would not be very wise, but a penalty [based on how many turret's/launchers are active on said target] to accuracy may help. While your tacking and optimal/fall off may be good, the more people firing on a single ship would make it harder for the shots to land.

eg: Having 200+ people who have great accuracy throw tennis balls at a single target would make most of the balls hit each other mid flight and miss the target.



But, what if you have those 200 people firing rifles at a car? Wouldn't that be a fairer example? Our ships are not small. Sure, we might be firing car sized rounds, but when we're shooting something over a kilometre in length?

The analogy fails. Much too simple and lacking in common elements.

With the exception of kinetic weapons, these damage types have an energy effect that does the actual damage.
The weapon may have guided it to the target, but once there this energy effect does not limit it's effects, it was designed to output a blast or thermal or EMP effect. This effect partially blocks successive effects for the duration of it's existence.
Explosion "A" may only last a moment, but for that moment it is blasting outward in all directions, including potential approaching ordinance meant to deliver similar damage. Between the damage to the incoming weapon, and the buffer effect with explosion "A"'s blast, explosion "B" does not have complete access to affect the intended target.
It should reduce the damage of the second blast, if only by a small amount.

Kinetic weapons being possibly the least effected over the short term, would in exchange have more persistent penalties to future damage due to the simple fact you would be hitting the same spot twice with growing probability. Yes, you would still do damage, but a kinetic round remains behind too, perversely getting in the way of successive rounds like an obstacle.

Even if a thermal round, for example, super-heated a spot on the ships armor, a second round with the same effect would have less impact if it hit the same spot too soon. The armor is still hot from the first round, and while it will still cause damage, their is overlap to the effect where the second round was simply breaking something already broken by the first.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2012-11-23 02:37:21 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:

Quote:
a black holes ability to crush u into part of its singularity is instantaneous and absolute, everything before that is just a formality before the real 'crushing' begins. As far as we know, black holes only increase in mass, but not volume.


Most of this is not true or is misleading.

1) Almost every type of object would be utterly destroyed LONG before it approached the center of a black hole. Tidal forces (the difference in gravitational force from one end of an object to the other end) shear things apart pretty far out from the center, and are anything but a "formality."

2) You just pulled the "instantaneous" thing out of your ass. It takes time to be pulled into a black hole, and would take time to be ripped apart or crushed, just like anything else. There's nothing "instantaneous" about it.

3) How would we have any idea at all if a black hole was increasing in volume? Since there's no light coming out of it to observe, and we can't get anywhere near it, there's no way to measure this. That would just be pure conjecture. The core of a black hole could easily expand from a millimeter to 2 millimeters, or from a foot in diameter to 3 feet, or even by a mile or two, or whatever. We would have no way of knowing.


the singularity is theorised to have zero volume, but contains the entire mass of the black hole. therefore an infinite density and subsequently an infinite gravitational 'crushing' power. so it would crush all matter at an infinitely fast rate...or instantaneously. the tidal forces beyond the singularity and even beyond the event horizon would tear everything apart yes. but the point at which the matter meets the singularity it is reduced to an infinitely small size (or zero volume) instantly. Or so the theory goes

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-11-23 17:06:32 UTC
Quote:

the singularity is theorised to have zero volume

Key word theorized. Like I said earlier, we don't KNOW. I never said that black holes are not, in fact, a point volume. I said that you can't say they are as if it is a fact, because it is not a fact.

Quote:
Therefore an infinite density and subsequently an infinite gravitational 'crushing' power. so it would crush all matter at an infinitely fast rate...or instantaneously.

No, THIS one is just plain wrong. Volume of a celestial spherical body has absolutely nothing to do with how quickly it attracts things. You will get pulled toward a gas planet just as quickly as you get pulled toward a rocky planet, if they are the same mass. Doesn't matter if the gas planet is 40 times larger in volume. That will only start mattering if and when you enter the atmosphere of that gas planet (because the mass that is now behind you will pull you backward a little bit).

This is because there is X amount of mass that's actually closer to you than the center of mass, and the exact same amount of mass is further away from you than the center of mass, and they cancel each other out, so it doesn't matter.

NASA ALREADY calculates orbits and such from the center of mas of celestial bodies, and they do NOT take volume into account (unless its a satellite or something and you need to make sure you aren't telling it to orbit underground, etc.) This is not a shortcut. They do it because it volume is in fact irrelevant to gravitational force for spherical objects.


(Note: this assumes things like mass being equally distributed throughout the celestial body, but since we have no idea what the distribution would be in a black hole, this is the most neutral assumption you can make anyway.)
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2012-11-24 01:57:24 UTC
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:
Quote:

the singularity is theorised to have zero volume

Key word theorized. Like I said earlier, we don't KNOW. I never said that black holes are not, in fact, a point volume. I said that you can't say they are as if it is a fact, because it is not a fact.


i didnt say it was fact either...i said as far as we know. ok, i can see how what i said may have been misleading, and of course im aware we dnt know what black holes are exactly and how they work.

anyways,

yes, i derped on density. its not what i was trying to focus on...directly. something that is infinitely dense and/or has a volume of zero would either be infinitely massive or be approachable right upto its centre of mass, and this (if my thinking is right) would give it an infinite surface gravity.

so if a star collapses and leaves a blackhole of similar mass in its place and we are to assume at its centre is a singularity, then we could move toward it to an infinitely close point, and with no mass behind us to pull us back, we'd feel an ever increasing gravitational pull as we got closer and closer, until we touched it, at which point the gravitational pull would be infinite. Assuming singularities exist.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

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