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Pirating in 0.0
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Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#21 - 2012-11-21 11:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
This expansion NPC aggression will affect your logout timer. as it is right now only pvp aggression results in a 15 minute logout timer if you DC/quit but when this expansion goes live that will also be the case for PVE aggression. So you'll see a lot more bots/grindbear deaths in 0.0 because of it, this will make "piracy" in 0.0 a lot easier (and it allows us the playerbase to actually act against bots, to a degree at least).

There are two easy ways for botters to escape this new change:

1. By using a POS.
2. By warping to a safe and cloaking, instead of logging off. Or maybe logging off later. If cloaking isn't an option, then just make enough safespots to make probing impossible. A battleship warps relatively slow, and bouncing between safespots can take over a minute, so you don't actually need that many. Then just log off.

Bots gonna bot, bro. Also, we might actually see MORE bots now, because botters might lose extra time due to visitors not leaving right away (right now, they just log off, and visitors don't have a reason to stay at all), so they'll want to compensate for lost profits. Another great way to get more alt account subs.


That's a lot of tinfoil tbh.

Ofcourse people (and bots) will adapt but it WILL affect them, at the very least it forces them to fit cloaks (which not all pve ships can do that easily, if they want to be optimised) or have a POS in those systems. You can never make it impossible, all you can do it make it less easy and more annoying. Also, adapting takes effort and at least a few braincells so I'm quite sure we'll see a sudden increase in grindbear deaths in 0.0 and while they'll adapt after a while I highly doubt they'll go back to being as untouchable/profitable as they are now.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-11-21 11:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Vilnius Zar wrote:
This expansion NPC aggression will affect your logout timer. as it is right now only pvp aggression results in a 15 minute logout timer if you DC/quit but when this expansion goes live that will also be the case for PVE aggression. So you'll see a lot more bots/grindbear deaths in 0.0 because of it, this will make "piracy" in 0.0 a lot easier (and it allows us the playerbase to actually act against bots, to a degree at least).

I thought there already was a logoff timer for NPC aggression, but I haven't bothered verifying that.

In any case, the timer for NPC aggression on the test server (last I checked) was five minutes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#23 - 2012-11-21 11:45:08 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There are two easy ways for botters to escape this new change:

1. By using a POS.
2. By warping to a safe and cloaking, instead of logging off. Or maybe logging off later. If cloaking isn't an option, then just make enough safespots to make probing impossible. A battleship warps relatively slow, and bouncing between safespots can take over a minute, so you don't actually need that many. Then just log off.

Bots gonna bot, bro. Also, we might actually see MORE bots now, because botters might lose extra time due to visitors not leaving right away (right now, they just log off, and visitors don't have a reason to stay at all), so they'll want to compensate for lost profits. Another great way to get more alt account subs.


That's a lot of tinfoil tbh.

Ofcourse people (and bots) will adapt but it WILL affect them, at the very least it forces them to fit cloaks (which not all pve ships can do that easily, if they want to be optimised) or have a POS in those systems. You can never make it impossible, all you can do it make it less easy and more annoying. Also, adapting takes effort and at least a few braincells so I'm quite sure we'll see a sudden increase in grindbear deaths in 0.0 and while they'll adapt after a while I highly doubt they'll go back to being as untouchable/profitable as they are now.

It's not tinfoil, it's how the botting world works. I have very intimate experience with that world, so believe me when I tell you that when efficiency is lowered, you make up for it (or try to) with quantity.

As far as adaptation goes, people (and bots) will adapt, and they will reach almost the same degree of efficiency they have today. Sure, the first few weeks might be hectic, but you can't judge long-term consequences through their immediate effects.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-11-21 11:53:04 UTC
dethleffs wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Julie Martins wrote:


From my understanding, it has everything that you guys are asking :

more targets than low sec
no gate gun


Except nullsec is dangerous because the locals can actually shoot back. Well, most of them anyway. Your suggestion is like asking a local gang of thugs why they don't go and pick on professional soldiers instead of the old and stupid, and the answer is the same. Because they will lose. And no one likes to lose.


Contrary to popular belief, pirates do like people who shoot back.

That is not to say we don't like ganks.


A kill is a kill is a kill.

But a feisty one is more fun P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2012-11-21 11:59:12 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Just join the Deklein Coalition and enjoy and ocean of blues and pirate high sec. Pirate


Someone's bitter.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#26 - 2012-11-21 12:58:00 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Despite having a higher overall population, there are many less targets in 0.0. You can choose between bots that you can't catch, people in semi-pimped plex boats that you can't catch, or people looking for fights with capitals on standby. There is really no one to "pirate" there.


And bots ratting in semi-pimped plex boats that you can't catch standing by to drop your drop with capitals.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#27 - 2012-11-21 13:40:06 UTC
I kinda like lowsec the way it is.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-11-21 17:26:07 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I kinda like lowsec the way it is.

Shocked

Get out!
Imports Plus
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-11-21 17:37:21 UTC
Most of 'em say they dont like bubbles.
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-11-21 17:40:18 UTC
There is definitely "piracy" in 0.0 space.

But, a lot of the systems are actively patrolled or if some neutrals / reds show up a defense fleet will form up to fight back.

A lot of pirates don't like organized resistance. They like single targets.

Most I've met enjoy 1v1 combat the most so when they go into 0.0 and find themselves being chased by 5 or 10 or even 20 people they don't bother with it.

Of course, there are also those pirates who don't relish the idea of "prey" who fight back so those ones avoid 0.0 as well.

Because of all of this, 0.0 can be remarkably safe - even safer than high sec.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#31 - 2012-11-21 17:44:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Despite having a higher overall population, there are many less targets in 0.0. You can choose between bots that you can't catch, people in semi-pimped plex boats that you can't catch, or people looking for fights with capitals on standby. There is really no one to "pirate" there.


This dude among others seems to be having a blast pirating in 0.0 and hunts goons all day everyday https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/LaserzPewPew kb linky on EVE-O is no bueno but you can look at it for yourself.

So all the people who say theres no targets, nothing but blobs, nothing but capital blobs and nothing but bots are dead wrong. There are people who pirate 0.0 all day long and have the fabled solo and small gang pvp.

.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#32 - 2012-11-22 00:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
No More Heroes wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Despite having a higher overall population, there are many less targets in 0.0. You can choose between bots that you can't catch, people in semi-pimped plex boats that you can't catch, or people looking for fights with capitals on standby. There is really no one to "pirate" there.


This dude among others seems to be having a blast pirating in 0.0 and hunts goons all day everyday https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/LaserzPewPew kb linky on EVE-O is no bueno but you can look at it for yourself.

So all the people who say theres no targets, nothing but blobs, nothing but capital blobs and nothing but bots are dead wrong. There are people who pirate 0.0 all day long and have the fabled solo and small gang pvp.

Read the first part of my second reply in this thread.

Edit: kind of seems to me that the majority of people don't understand what exactly "piracy" is. I can tell you for a fact that it's not going after targets of equal or greater strength, who are willing and able to fight back. That's called "sport."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Emil Narud
Holders R Us
#33 - 2012-11-22 00:18:27 UTC
Riddick Liddell wrote:
dethleffs wrote:
I'm saying that losec mechanics are different then null and that pirates like them. I didn't add any qualitative value to the mechanics themselves.
Some mechanics are broken, some are lame, some are good, some are just different. This goes for all sec states.



Maybe I could start naming off some regions, systems and moons where the reactions POS webs are?

Even if you don't own any, I am sure you will come to appreciate the super cap blobs that will invade your systems to take them down.


Because supers can totally shoot pos.....
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-11-22 02:29:14 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Except nullsec is dangerous because the locals can actually shoot back. Well, most of them anyway. Your suggestion is like asking a local gang of thugs why they don't go and pick on professional soldiers instead of the old and stupid, and the answer is the same. Because they will lose. And no one likes to lose.

Indeed...!!!






To the OP... You see, if you go there people will shoot back at you, this will lead to losing and that is not acceptable...
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#35 - 2012-11-22 07:03:44 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
kind of seems to me that the majority of people don't understand what exactly "piracy" is. I can tell you for a fact that it's not going after targets of equal or greater strength, who are willing and able to fight back. That's called "sport."


Courtesy of the free online dictionary.com

Pirating-
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.

Not really seeing anything about the strength of the target. What's the difference between someone who hunts and kills shiny ships in lowsec and one who does the same thing in 0.0?

.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#36 - 2012-11-22 07:19:54 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
kind of seems to me that the majority of people don't understand what exactly "piracy" is. I can tell you for a fact that it's not going after targets of equal or greater strength, who are willing and able to fight back. That's called "sport."


Courtesy of the free online dictionary.com

Pirating-
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.

Not really seeing anything about the strength of the target. What's the difference between someone who hunts and kills shiny ships in lowsec and one who does the same thing in 0.0?

While you're still on that site, go ahead and look up those two words as well. Then you'll have your answer.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-11-22 07:43:20 UTC
While solo-pirating in a larger vessel in 0.0 might be more difficult or not at all reasonable due to the higher probability to not make it out of bubbles alive ( still remember the true "bubble art" ,resulting in flying hundrets of km in bubbles to a gate, that was practiced in the Drone regionsin 2011) it is only logical to do it in frigates or cruisers.
Missing gate guns allow a solo pirate to first shoot the target far enough in armor/structure and then start a negotioation about ransom. that way one can earn much more than by just shooting ships as it is quite impossible to carry large amounts of booty in a frigates cargo.
Sure, there might be regions with a working intel and response forces but there are enough pipes and constellations where the flock is unguarded and willingly giving in their destiny.
So, Yes - after giving it a thought pirating in 0.0 seems to be a sustainable endeavour and I might pursue it more activly in the future...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#38 - 2012-11-22 10:28:36 UTC
The compelling reason is:

we shoot back.

That is all.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
psycho freak
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-11-22 11:43:42 UTC
tbh most lo-sec pirates iv flown with over the years are old 0.0 pvpers that got bord of the politics of 0.0

me personaly i used to pirate 0.0 i havent done it for a long time but i used to love putting 2 x recons in a ststion system or farming system and just wait for right target to kill you get alot teirs in local and alot whineing on forums about afk cloakers but most aint afk they just on difrent toon waiting for right time to use the cloaker

i also used to put sucker bubbles upand hav scouts out and camp the sucker bubble somtime go 1 step fether and put carrier at old deep safe and asign fighters to my bubble camper

they were fun time but now i fly with difrent crew and have difrent intrests but what you will find is that lo-sec pirates will activly look for wh's to go into pirateing and if that wh leads to 0.0 they will go there to look for targets in and out type style

lo-sec pirates are dug in deep in they area s most feel reluctent to move on large scale but solo if guy is bord or wants change then they do as they please go hunt doesnt matter if its lo-sec/hisec/0.0/wh space

my spelling sux brb find phone number for someone who gives a fu*k

nop cant find it
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-11-23 17:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Remiel Pollard wrote:
dethleffs wrote:


Contrary to popular belief, pirates do like people who shoot back.

That is not to say we don't like ganks.


A kill is a kill is a kill.

But a feisty one is more fun P


This.

and people who are considering posting about low sec pirates just ganking everything and not wanting to commit to real fleetvfleet fights, please recall that some pirates are killing ships to make isk only, not to have fun with competitive PvP. Most pirate groups though, have a little bit of isk making through ganks, and some serious PvP as well. Some pirate corps are simply small fleet and gang warfare, without the ganking people for ISK as efficiently as possible part on the side. They aren't trying to prove that they are good PvPers through ganking people on gate camps, they are making isk. Real competitive style PvP is separate from that, and a lot of pirate groups, believe it or not, are fairly good at small scale PvP fleet fights.

Personally I will take a 12 man fleet vs 12 man fleet with logi on both sides fight over a faction raven jumping into a camp any day...isk making can wait.


Also, I may be a bit biased, but I feel that small scale pvp has a lot more "each fleet member's role matters" than the huge cap fleets of null, where the best role is "bring dps". This leads me to the idea that small scale pvp is more skill based than these huge fleets, which are more planning based prior to fight. Null does have similar roaming small fleets as low sec though, and that is why I'm not just going to say "null sec pilots are shite", because quite a few of them are not shite. Even if some of them do plexes and pve between fights, does not mean they suck wind at PvP.

(Goons suck at small gang though...) < from experience fighting them O_o

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us