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How to calculate Rate of Fire?

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Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-11-21 04:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gurran Wecri
I am making an excel document to calculate laser turret/crystal stats, when I got to ROF I got a little confused. I am calculating skills and modules in as well.
Here is my equation:
B4/(1+(0.04*B41))/(1+(0.02*B42))/(100%+F36)

B4 = Gun's Base ROF
B41 = Rapid Firing skill level
B42 = Gunnery Level
F36 = Module Modifier

If I understand correctly the lower the ROF number the faster, the higher the ROF number the slower. Did I get my equation correct?

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#2 - 2012-11-21 04:28:32 UTC
just think "cycle time". Eve's ROF is not real worlds ROF

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-11-21 04:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Gurran Wecri wrote:
I am making an excel document to calculate laser turret/crystal stats, when I got to ROF I got a little confused. I am calculating skills and modules in as well.
Here is my equation:
B4/(1+(0.04*B41))/(1+(0.02*B42))-F36

B4 = Gun's Base ROF
B41 = Rapid Firing skill level
B42 = Gunnery Level
F36 = Module Modifier

If I understand correctly the lower the ROF number the faster, the higher the ROF number the slower. Did I get my equation correct?

The term "rate of fire" is rather misleading, since rate would imply a frequency, but the units are given in terms of a period (i.e. inverse frequency). So yes, the lower the ROF number as given the higher the actual rate of fire (and therefore the more times the gun fires in a given period).

I don't believe your equation is correct.
Ignoring ship bonuses since those vary, let's say the equation is as follows:

R = B * (1 - 0.04 * RF) * (1 - 0.02 * G) * (1 - M)

Where R = rate of fire, B = base ROF, RF = rapid firing skill level, G = gunnery skill leve, and M = module modifier taking into account stacking penalties and such.

So if you put, say, Neutron Blaster II on a Talos with both RF = 5 and G = 5 and one Magnetic Field Stabilizer II, the new Rate of Fire should be R = 7.875 s * (1 - (0.04 * 5)) * (1 - (0.02 * 5)) * (1 - .105) = 5.07465 s.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#4 - 2012-11-21 04:41:20 UTC
B4*(1-(B41*0.04))*(1-(B42*0.02))*((100-F36)/100)

You reversed the signs for the most part.

Keep in mind, for the last part, which is modules mods, the value you put in is the percentage bonus. So like on a T2 magstab that is 10.5% rof bonus, it basically converts it to ((100-10.5)/100), which is .895. Also, you will have to stacking-penalize modules.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ghazu
#5 - 2012-11-21 05:12:21 UTC
Or you can be lazy like me and use EFT or Pyfa.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-11-21 05:12:57 UTC
Thanks guys, that helped.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#7 - 2012-11-21 05:18:20 UTC
No problem. Originally, I was going to make one of them "heh, a guy from "The Dev Team" being clueless about game mechanics" jokes, but gave an actual answer instead. I must be losing it.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-11-21 05:38:10 UTC
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#9 - 2012-11-21 05:42:14 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?

I don't really get your question. All the skills that affect rof make you fire quicker. For example, rapid firing at level 5 reduces cycle time by 20%, so a gun with a 5 second cycle time will now have a 4 second cycle time.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#10 - 2012-11-21 05:55:12 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?


If you are Amarr, training up RoF before you can cap stab the new RoF is creating as many problems as it solves.

If you are Minmatar, it is the RoF that is going to dictate generic dps and alpha dps.

If that's what you mean but why increase RoF.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-11-21 06:00:29 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?

It increases your fire rate.

In other words, ROF goes down.

(Decreased period, increased frequency)

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-11-22 01:05:17 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
B4*(1-(B41*0.04))*(1-(B42*0.02))*((100-F36)/100)

You reversed the signs for the most part.

Keep in mind, for the last part, which is modules mods, the value you put in is the percentage bonus. So like on a T2 magstab that is 10.5% rof bonus, it basically converts it to ((100-10.5)/100), which is .895. Also, you will have to stacking-penalize modules.


Then this equation is false, isn't it?
I am really confused. Your skill takes it down. so shouldn't it be divide by skill?

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-11-22 01:17:38 UTC
Because 0.04*B41 produces 4% * Skill Level, making (10.0 Seconds)/(1+(0.04*(Level 2 Rapid Firing))) produce 9.25 Seconds which is correct according to the last three replies but they where saying to use (10.0 Seconds)*(1+(0.04*(Level 2 Rapid Firing))) in which produces 10.8 Seconds which is false according to the last 3 replies. Do I multiply like was said above the last three replies or divide?

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#14 - 2012-11-22 01:19:08 UTC
From I can gather (I've never actually done the math for this) the RoF works the same way resistances are calculated.

RoF can be seen as two different ways of course, the duration between each shot, or the average rounds per minute or second.

The RoF attribute you see on guns in EVE is the former, thus the smaller the number the better. In order for a skill or item to give you a negative gain on RoF the % is likely subtracted from the total. So that a 10% bonus to RoF on a gun that fires once every 30 sec would likely mean it has a 27 sec RoF.

Again, I haven't ever done the math on this before so later tonight I'll go verify.

The Drake is a Lie
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-11-22 01:25:59 UTC
If that's the case, isn't my equation at the top correct?
When I use =B4/(1+(0.04*B41))/(1+(0.02*B42))/(100%+F37) I get a lower value.
When I use =B4*(1+(0.04*B41))*(1+(0.02*B42))*(100%+F37) I get a really high value.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#16 - 2012-11-22 01:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Gurran Wecri wrote:
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?

Rate of Fire is measured in hertz, or occurances per second.

Cycle time is measured in the time between events, or seconds per occurances.

The two are inverses of each other. If rate of fire goes up, cycle time goes down, which means things happen faster/more often.

It's the same difference as between the period and frequency of a wave.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-11-22 01:33:21 UTC
But in EVE they show it different then most games, they show rate of fire as seconds per occurrence - hence the 6.3 s or what ever your ROF is.

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#18 - 2012-11-22 01:39:13 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
But in EVE they show it different then most games, they show rate of fire as seconds per occurrence - hence the 6.3 s or what ever your ROF is.

thats what i said a few posts above. its cycle time not ROF.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Gurran Wecri
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-11-22 01:41:11 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Gurran Wecri wrote:
LOL, I am a programmer.
Just out curiousity why train rapid firing if it makes your ROF go up?

Rate of Fire is measured in hertz, or occurances per second.

Cycle time is measured in the time between events, or seconds per occurances.

The two are inverses of each other. If rate of fire goes up, cycle time goes down, which means things happen faster/more often.

It's the same difference as between the period and frequency of a wave.

^^ I know but apparently this guy didn't read it ^^

Sincerely, Patrick Thomas (Timberwolf) Timberwolf Programmers Owner & Founder
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#20 - 2012-11-22 01:46:36 UTC
Gurran Wecri wrote:
But in EVE they show it different then most games, they show rate of fire as seconds per occurrence - hence the 6.3 s or what ever your ROF is.

Whenever it shows up measuring as seconds, it is called "cycle time". Some brief math: http://i.imgur.com/jcdeR.png

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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