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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-11-28 05:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mike Voidstar wrote:
The point you seem to be missing is that if it was actually fun, someone would already be doing it.

I notice you don't seem keen on giving me a high value target and seeing if I can get it past you to sell at a station of your choice. Put the one sided risk on your back and suddenly it's not such an attractive proposition, and my kill record shows clearly that I absolutely suck at anything resembling PvP. Your cargo would only be at risk if my exploding hull took it with me in the fireball, really.

It's not about the chosen activity. It's about the dynamic of all risk laying with the prey. The pirate does not care about the loss of ship, loss of sec status, loss of time, or anything else that's on the table in this sort of encounter. The bear, in general, cares about all of that, but could care less about being shot down to provide you with a target. Your suggestion is all about getting CCP to provide the pressure on the bear to get them into lowsec where you can shoot at them. It's not about makeing the game more fun for the bears, it's about making it more fun for you at the bear's expense.

Heck, if you want this kind of challenge just put up some buy orders for a maurader or 3 at 1.5 billion ISK and wait for people to try and fill the order for you. You lose if they make it, you win if they don't. If you are a sucessful pirate you will walk away with a few shiny new marauders and a cancelled buy order. Or you will lose your isk. Either way, the risk isn't really one sided at that point, but the hauler won't know that and will still cry for you if you catch him.


People do pvp in low just for fun all the time very little monetary gain is made though as they often carebear to pay for the ships losses, In null people fight for ratting rights and to protect under construction capitals but not to many large incentives like that exist in low, (poco's just don't have the same isk appeal). However their is no good reason to bring a freighter through currently, (one time I was in a frigate and i saw a freighter autopilot 3 jumps through low tried calling for help but I couldn't do anything or else gate guns would kill me).

Now saying someone in the new lowsec will always be a badger who has no defenses is silly, a smart pilot will bring a scout or friends. Just because they are the prey doesnt mean they wont bite back, it could be a trap badger that lights a cyno, the pack of haulers may have logistics support and a group of cloaked recon vessels with a regular pvp gang lying in wait, it could be a whole armada moving through multiple freighters.

True bears who absolutely don't want to pvp will use cloaky haulers or high sec wormholes. Saying that people who don't want to pvp should have access to the most lucrative form of trade is silly, it's like saying 0.0 ores should spawn in highsec because CCP is trying to force us casuals into going into null. Just like with every other form of isk making their will be a version that doesn't make as much isk (the safe way) and the one that makes more. The safe play style will remain and plenty of jobs will still be around for the risk averse trade bear. So in short NOBODY IS GOING TO BE FORCED TO GO ANYWHERE.

Also people do setup traps like you said all the time, waiting that long is boring though and I have better things to do. Most people use courier contracts to do that sort of thing anyway btw.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-11-28 05:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Quote:
Lore explanation thought up,
The caldari states new jump gate technology to explore the rest of black rise has caused stargate wormholes to be unstable that are near black rise. This new region is called "Black Void" and has caused the connecting gallente and amarr stargates that are high security space to be severed due to their proximity. The gallente have also lost connection to the minmatar due to this strange event. Black void would be a narrow sparsely filled region filling the void from the serpent's coil to algintal. Many suspect this new jumpgate technology was not discovered by the caldari but purposely given to them by an unknown entity. The Gallente have discovered a new ancient jumpgate network near the myrdian strip, and would be named after the local landmark. The angel cartel and serpentis have began moving in because they feel that their is ancient jovian technology to be had making it very insecure. This region will connect to minmatar and ammatar space with another connection to black void. The ammatar have decided to break all ties with the amarr and destroyed all their stargates in high security space. They wish to ally with the minmatar republic but they are still a sovereign state, at the same time the ammatar have found new gravity wells in divinities edge and began settling their. Divinities edge will be the minmatar's new zone (kinda). Amarr are huge and don't need ****, they just will connect to Black Void and Divinities Edge.

Currently each faction connects to their ally and their historial enemy by high sec while having to cross their allies space in order to get to the enemy of their friends space.

Because I got confused myself writing that here is a simplified form

Divinties edge, black void, and myridian connect to each other so the path would be.
Caldari -> Amarr = Hisec -> Black Void -> hisec
Amarr -> Gallente = Hisec -> Black Void OR Divinity -> Myrdian -> hisec
Amarr -> Minmatar = Hisec -> Divinity -> Hisec
Gallente -> Minmatar = Hisec -> myridian -> hisec
Caldari -> Minmatar = Hisec -> Black Void -> Divinity OR Myrdian -> Hisec

Also Divinities Edge would be difficult to properly place, maybe snuggler underneath ammatar space?


For each race to reach their main enemies area they can still cross the current FW battlegrounds.

All four races can reach the enemy of their friends more quickly by way of the already existing narrow constellations.


Btw I made a quick map in paint to give an example of what the new map could look like
Proposed Map
The new low security images are in color

Their would be multiple entrances to and from each region btw don't let the single lines fool you.
UPDATE TO MAP

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#163 - 2012-11-28 05:48:24 UTC
So... Its boring to wait for your high value Target, you want fresh meat to be delivered to your doorstep everytime you get hungry.

How about the poor sod who gets to sit in station, leave or log off because eveytime he tries to do what he came for he gets jumped? It's not like he has the option to fight and survive, much less actually accomplish his goal, which I will again point out had nothing to do with being the object of some sadistic domestic abuse fantasy. His options upon seeing anyone appear in local, or if he's super dedicated waiting until he sees probes, is to safe spot and cloak or dock, either way waiting until his huntees decide to allow him to play the game again.

It just does not get more simple--- what you want to happen isn't fun for your intended prey, and therefore making the change you request would not have the result you imagine. Those people that enjoy that sort of gameplay are already out there, bearing it up in low sec and having a good time evading you.

What you want is for someone to play mouse to your cat. There are ways to accomplish this without forcing it upon those who hate it. All you would accomplish are a few unsubs and maybe some market fluxes.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-11-28 05:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mike Voidstar wrote:
So... Its boring to wait for your high value Target, you want fresh meat to be delivered to your doorstep everytime you get hungry.

How about the poor sod who gets to sit in station, leave or log off because eveytime he tries to do what he came for he gets jumped? It's not like he has the option to fight and survive, much less actually accomplish his goal, which I will again point out had nothing to do with being the object of some sadistic domestic abuse fantasy. His options upon seeing anyone appear in local, or if he's super dedicated waiting until he sees probes, is to safe spot and cloak or dock, either way waiting until his huntees decide to allow him to play the game again.

It just does not get more simple--- what you want to happen isn't fun for your intended prey, and therefore making the change you request would not have the result you imagine. Those people that enjoy that sort of gameplay are already out there, bearing it up in low sec and having a good time evading you.

What you want is for someone to play mouse to your cat. There are ways to accomplish this without forcing it upon those who hate it. All you would accomplish are a few unsubs and maybe some market fluxes.

/facepalm

Im not waiting 3 hours - a few days for some idiot to bring a marauder into lowsec. Seriously their are options for traders other than crossing lowsec, I told you multiple times their are ways around lowsec for the risk averse, use a wormhole or a blockade runner. People who want to make more isk can bring escorts for their haulers and fight back, if they die thats what they signed up for when they jumped and hopefully it was a good battle.People who are scared can make a courier contract and let people who know what they are doing get your **** somewhere safely. I said multiple times NOBODY IS FORCED TO DO ANYTHING. If I wanted to force someone into pvp I would wardec them. Their are multiple methods of avoiding all pvp and crossing lowsec your being very overly dramatic.

Nobody wants to do nothing but gank badgers over and over, this is not intended to do that. I wan't new reasons to pvp and having to get something from point A to point B is probably a great way to encourage fights.

The way you write your posts make you think I only play this game to make people like you cry and I would like you to please stop assuming such because it is not the case. I like to fight pvp'ers and I like low sec however their are current very few real reasons to have fights other than for fun and faction warfare.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#165 - 2012-11-28 13:03:17 UTC
How does this boil down to "they just wanna gank meh :(" for some people. Cry

This change would improve the value of activity for industrialist and inter region traders, pro couriers...

Why does it have to automatically be gankers vs the poor haulers? Lol Are people that one dimensional? Don't be the dumb hauler geez, or is that just inevitable for some people? To be that guy Roll
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#166 - 2012-11-28 14:48:14 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
How does this boil down to "they just wanna gank meh :(" for some people. Cry

This change would improve the value of activity for industrialist and inter region traders, pro couriers...

Why does it have to automatically be gankers vs the poor haulers? Lol Are people that one dimensional? Don't be the dumb hauler geez, or is that just inevitable for some people? To be that guy Roll


He says it himself, when he isn't denying it. He wants to change the map so that economic pressures push haulers into lowsec. I suppose I could be wrong about him and there is just a more plentiful supply of rosewater and turtlewax for buffing thier hulls to nice luster in lowsec, but I doubt it.

He wants more targets, does not want to waste time finding or baiting them in, and especially not when anything of his is at risk other than a throw away gank ship and maybe some implants. That's all directly from him. He seems to be under the mistaken impression that the people avoiding lowsec like the plague ridden wasteland it is will realize all the fun and excitement they have been missing as his prey, and will be eager and grateful for being shown how much fun victimization can truely be.

He wants to make the game more fun for him at the expense of a group that does not find the sort of gameplay he favors fun. This change would make more money for couriers, at the expense of everyone buying whatever the courier is carrying. That isk won't magically appear as a bonus in the couriers wallet as a prize for a successful evasion, the idea at its most basic levels relies on market upsets, that's where the pressure to create his influx of targets come from.

It's simply a bad, self serving plan to force a playstyle on a playerbase that hates that kind of play. It is a game. People play it for fun. What he wants isn't fun, so people don't do it much. He wants to change things so that the economic pressures will cause more people to take the risk despite it being not fun, so that he can inflict that not fun on them. Somehow this will magically make it fun.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2012-11-28 16:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:

So... Its boring to wait for your high value Target, you want fresh meat to be delivered to your doorstep everytime you get hungry.

How about the poor sod who gets to sit in station, leave or log off because eveytime he tries to do what he came for he gets jumped?

Good riddance, we don't need people playing eve who are so dumb that they aren't even capable of considering the usage of entire classes of ships that already exist in the game to allow them to do exactly what they want to do.

There are these things... called blockade runners. They have, like, cloaks and ****. In the proposed plan, anybody who didn't want to be social, but still wanted to haul high value goods, could use one of these mythical ships, along with the star map "ships killed" stats, d-scan, and bookmarks, and get through 99%+ of their trips past the lowsec belt just fine.

If they refuse to upgrade to anything except a t1 undefended, unescorted badger, even after getting ganked the first 1 or 2 times, then they are true idiots, and they have no business hauling anything in the first place. These would be the only people who would be getting "forced" into ganky, pvp situations when they didn't want to be: people who are illiterate.


Some people will get ganked in badgers anyway, yes. And some people might get ganked very rarely in a blockade runner, by somebody with an extensive network of decloaking cans, for example, or if the pilot makes a mistake. But the profit margins here would not be significantly higher at all than in low sec currently for pirates. That's not really the good idea here in this thread. The good idea is that in ORDER to get back to the status quo, players will have to think a little more and use some more advanced strategies, both the pirates and the haulers. That is a good thing.

AND for the newbies out there or people who don't want to think, there's still the option of hauling WITHIN a given empire, virtually risk-free, in your undefended t1 badger. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. You just simply won't make as much isk. nor should you as a newbie or a risk-averse person.

tl;dr: The beauty of the idea proposed in this thread is that it shifts the highest value targets (for pirates) AND the highest value cargoes (for haulers) to the people willing to take the most risks and who are the most creative, while low-risk, uncreative players get low profits. High rewards for high risks and good creativity = good game design.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-11-28 17:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mike Voidstar wrote:
He says it himself, when he isn't denying it. He wants to change the map so that economic pressures push haulers into lowsec. I suppose I could be wrong about him and there is just a more plentiful supply of rosewater and turtlewax for buffing thier hulls to nice luster in lowsec, but I doubt it.

He wants more targets, does not want to waste time finding or baiting them in, and especially not when anything of his is at risk other than a throw away gank ship and maybe some implants. That's all directly from him. He seems to be under the mistaken impression that the people avoiding lowsec like the plague ridden wasteland it is will realize all the fun and excitement they have been missing as his prey, and will be eager and grateful for being shown how much fun victimization can truely be.

He wants to make the game more fun for him at the expense of a group that does not find the sort of gameplay he favors fun. This change would make more money for couriers, at the expense of everyone buying whatever the courier is carrying. That isk won't magically appear as a bonus in the couriers wallet as a prize for a successful evasion, the idea at its most basic levels relies on market upsets, that's where the pressure to create his influx of targets come from.

It's simply a bad, self serving plan to force a playstyle on a playerbase that hates that kind of play. It is a game. People play it for fun. What he wants isn't fun, so people don't do it much. He wants to change things so that the economic pressures will cause more people to take the risk despite it being not fun, so that he can inflict that not fun on them. Somehow this will magically make it fun.


Everything your saying doesn't make sense because I just told you how not to get ganked with near certainty WORMHOLES AND BLOCKADE RUNNERS. If you want to make more isk trading then go to low sec with protection and we can have a fleet battle with pvp ships escourting haulers. So please stop being a broken record.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-11-28 22:39:24 UTC
Proposed regions overlayed current eve map.
map

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
L'Acuto
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-11-29 01:49:46 UTC
Trade between the empires would be ruled by jump freighters.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-11-29 01:51:26 UTC
L'Acuto wrote:
Trade between the empires would be ruled by jump freighters.


Fuel isn't free son.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-11-29 01:58:50 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
L'Acuto wrote:
Trade between the empires would be ruled by jump freighters.


Fuel isn't free son.

A person could make good money by transporting off race fules to major hubs with these changes.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#173 - 2012-11-29 03:45:06 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Fuel costs money, everything in eve is not going to be moved by jump freighter, that is just silly.


AHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAH.

Maybe you should try playing eve before commenting on how to fix it....
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2012-11-29 04:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Blastil wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
Fuel costs money, everything in eve is not going to be moved by jump freighter, that is just silly.


AHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAH.

Maybe you should try playing eve before commenting on how to fix it....

I was incorrect on the costs of jump freighter fuel and have been running under a major misconception. However I do not believe that this oversight will completely ruin my plan.

My earlier suggestion in the opening post of removing all stations from high sec entry points still could be applied adding risk to the use of jump freighters, jump freighters are still slow and a cloaked hauler will beat it to wherever it is going. Normal freighters still carry far larger volumes and can use wormholes to carry greater volumes assuming a wormhole can be found quickly, normal freighters do not cost seven billion isk either. A regular Itty V can carry nearly 40k m3 of items and can cross lowsec with a scout beating it to a trade of lower volumes. Also are you going to fill your anshar completely every trip? If you don't the iteron will keep up even better. Then if everyone is constantly running stuff back and forth with jump freighters fuel prices could spike by quite a bit. Also for personal courier contracts such as the carebears moving a regular freighter might be needed.

I was under the impression that fuel was much more expensive than it was. I dun goof'ed. Other posts in this thread also reinforced this misconception. Yet I do not think this robs my idea of its merit.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#175 - 2012-11-30 15:35:47 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

I was incorrect on the costs of jump freighter fuel and have been running under a major misconception. However I do not believe that this oversight will completely ruin my plan.

...

I was under the impression that fuel was much more expensive than it was. I dun goof'ed. Other posts in this thread also reinforced this misconception. Yet I do not think this robs my idea of its merit.


Frankly, it robs you of any and all credibility. A JF pilot is always full. If he isn't full on what he was contracted to move, usually a JF pilot will pick up a contract or two, or even at worst, speculate and buy ships/modules to re-sell wherever he's going.

JF's were DESIGNED to make logistics simpler. They came to being in EVE after people complained mightily how hard it was to transport things around empire, and from empire to 0.0. They were intentionally and specifically designed to be MUCH more competitive than industrial ships, and essentially relegated all shipping traffic to Jump Freighters. Complaining that this needs to be challenged is like the horse salesman saying there should be a range-limit on cars so that he can sell more buggies. The only reason to use any other ships is when you're intentionally hauling a small quantity of things 'the last mile', or 'the first mile'.

Jump Freighters are cats that cannot be put back into their metaphorical bags. Haulers still do have an important function to perform in eve- hauling minerals the first and last miles to their specific destinations, and making short, safe highsec-highsec hops.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-11-30 16:40:50 UTC
Fuel prices are due to ice not being an depleatable resource, imagine how cheap ships would be if asteroids were infinite. Ice needs to have a limited supply. That though does affect this idea it by no means strips it of credibility.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-11-30 17:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Blastil wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:

I was incorrect on the costs of jump freighter fuel and have been running under a major misconception. However I do not believe that this oversight will completely ruin my plan.

...

I was under the impression that fuel was much more expensive than it was. I dun goof'ed. Other posts in this thread also reinforced this misconception. Yet I do not think this robs my idea of its merit.


Frankly, it robs you of any and all credibility. A JF pilot is always full. If he isn't full on what he was contracted to move, usually a JF pilot will pick up a contract or two, or even at worst, speculate and buy ships/modules to re-sell wherever he's going.

JF's were DESIGNED to make logistics simpler. They came to being in EVE after people complained mightily how hard it was to transport things around empire, and from empire to 0.0. They were intentionally and specifically designed to be MUCH more competitive than industrial ships, and essentially relegated all shipping traffic to Jump Freighters. Complaining that this needs to be challenged is like the horse salesman saying there should be a range-limit on cars so that he can sell more buggies. The only reason to use any other ships is when you're intentionally hauling a small quantity of things 'the last mile', or 'the first mile'.

Jump Freighters are cats that cannot be put back into their metaphorical bags. Haulers still do have an important function to perform in eve- hauling minerals the first and last miles to their specific destinations, and making short, safe highsec-highsec hops.


I feel silly after I initially thought fuel cost a big deal. I never had any reason to move capital ships myself. However if it was possible to force jump freighters to be vulnerable at a low sec exit at a point like a pos then surely it would encourage conflict over the control of trade routes. Not to mention many people are nowhere near being capable of affording a jump freighter and I wonder just how many jump freighters their are? Also who the hell complains about moving stuff around hisec? Just send a freighter to autopilot their. I also never said anything about making JF jump ranges shorter.

Also a huge percentage of current trade is done by poor people who can't afford a 7 billion isk jump freighter.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2012-11-30 17:58:53 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

If imports from other places stop or are reduced the supply in jita will see a sharp drop.


Maybe.

Don't you get it. People often don't do what you think they should. This has been Greyscales problem in trying to change null sec and break up the big power blocks. He thinks, "Tweak this, and that will cause the change I want." But the players show time and again that they are quite able to adapt to his changes AND maintain their large power blocks.

Same thing could happen here. For example Rens and Hek could simply stop being trade hubs altogether. Now you have to cross a vast swath of low sec that curiously devoid of stations, only to get across that to find you have to travel across a number of 0.5 systems where you are still easily gankable by a surprisingly small handful of players. Yeah....fun fun that.

Quote:
So prices increase.


Yes, in the short run prices will increase. Will prices stay elevated? Some will and some wont.

Quote:
Prices being higher in jita than elsewhere makes people choose to move.


Pure speculation here. Jita prices will be higher that Jita prices prior to this change, they wont necessarily be higher than everywhere else.

Quote:
Their aren't enough belts and moons to supply jita in caldari space alone. In the long run obviously people will be forced to leave.


First off getting moon goo to market wont be that big a deal for null sec alliances. As for moons for POS for things like invention, I think you need to count again. This citadel has 1,599 moons in systems with sec status of 0.5-0.7 The Forge has 2,359. 2,183 in Lonetrek for a total of 6,472 moons. That is alot of moons for doing research. Is it enough for everyone? I don't know but I'm gonna guess that that is enough to keep Jita from shrinking much. In fact, yeah people might move...to Caldari space.

You are just guessing here...Hell you can't even be arsed to go look at how many moons are in Caldari 0.5-0.7 space. You just assume it is not enough, or not enough to allow for trade in Jita after this change to remain the same or even grow.

And as I noted Amarr might also become a bigger trade hub (at the expense of say Gallente space). And you don't want to know about the available moons in just Domain alone (4,237 with another 1,911 in Genesis, tack on Kador and in Amarr space there are at least 8,136 moons).

So best case scenario for you might be shifting all trade to Amarr and Jita.

Quote:
Their are a limited number of places you can harvest from and a limited number of places you can build from, the potential number of factory orders in the caldari state are limited and all of eve can't live in one spot.


Yes, but there are lots and lots of moons. And when prices go up, it might make sense to even start building at POS in Caldari and Amarr space vs. going to Gallente or Minmatar space and hoping people buy from you there. They might, but maybe not.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#179 - 2012-11-30 18:21:32 UTC
I support a divided EVE. Decisions should matter. Being Amarr means nothing in EVE right now.
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-11-30 19:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nahkep Narmelion
Commander Ted wrote:
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:


You know what your problem is, you say these things as if they are 100% certain. However we are dealing with people who will go to great lengths to avoid things they don't like, or find short cuts, or even something else entirely neither you nor I have thought of. Look at my posts, I use words like:

likely,
maybe,
might,
possible.

You use words/phrases like,

will,
absolutely,
totally,
would not exist.

commander ted wrote:
If you have a better alternative to minmatar space you are likely to trade their.

Relevant point next time?


The relevant point is you can't even take 5 minutes to do basic research such as how many moons are available for POS in caldari space or even the number of belts (there are 1,154 fixed belts in Caldari space by the way and the actual number is unknown...I'll let you ponder that one for a bit). Then based on ignorance you make statements with certainty.

Commander Ted wrote:
Fuel isn't free son.


That is just pathetic. It doesn't refute the claim in the least. Yeah, jump freighter use fuel and that has a cost. But they will likely beat using a standard freighter for inter-empire trade. The dominant form of travel for large cargo will likely be the jump freighter. For smaller cargo, the blockade runner.

And since you are demonstrating that you once again don't know **** from shinola, people will use a jump freighter to move items in bulk when the profit margin is sufficient to offset the costs of the POS(es) necessary to cross this low sec belt and jump freighter fuel costs. For smaller items that are profitable to move, a blockade runner will be used.

In those cases when the profits do not justify moving cargo, the cargo will not be moved.

Quote:

I feel silly after I initially thought fuel cost a big deal. I never had any reason to move capital ships myself. However if it was possible to force jump freighters to be vulnerable at a low sec exit at a point like a pos then surely it would encourage conflict over the control of trade routes.


Tell us again how you weren't going to force anyone to do things.

And your "simple fix" is getting more and more complicated. Now it is add low sec systems to separate empires. Oh, maybe a new freighter class ship. And...uhhh...some sort of way to make jump freighters even more vulnerable at a POS.